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Small Questions v. 10105


Rhaenys_Targaryen

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18 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I was looking at planetos map, and it came to my attention (probably way later than everybody) that Ulos, the furthermost eastern island, has an unnamed city on it. If I saw correctly, that's the only unnamed city in the whole map. Was this intentional? If so, are there any theories, or references in the books about this?

Hum ya its there but its so far away from anything relevant that it's probably nothing.

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1 hour ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I was looking at planetos map, and it came to my attention (probably way later than everybody) that Ulos, the furthermost eastern island, has an unnamed city on it. If I saw correctly, that's the only unnamed city in the whole map. Was this intentional? If so, are there any theories, or references in the books about this?

It's a ruined city, so possibly the Maesters have no idea what it was called. 

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2 hours ago, Sodd said:

what did he read? anything new?

A passage from Fire and Blood, Gyldayn's account on the Dance of the Dragons, up until the Blacks decide to use Harrenhal as their stronghold on the mainland.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4yk37z/spoilers_everything_grrm_reading_at_worlcon/?sort=old

As far as I've read, there were no real new details revealed in the reading.

 

7 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I was looking at planetos map, and it came to my attention (probably way later than everybody) that Ulos, the furthermost eastern island, has an unnamed city on it. If I saw correctly, that's the only unnamed city in the whole map. Was this intentional? If so, are there any theories, or references in the books about this?

Very little is known about Ulthos, and the island Ulos. So that is likely why the name of the city is not known to the maesters. They already seem to consider Asshai to be the end of the world, and have little knowledge on what lies east from Asshai and the Shadowlands. Ulos and most of Ulthos are located to the east of Asshai, so I think it is likely that there have simply been too few people who have travelled far enough to have discovered the name of the city.

After all, this is how Asshai is introduced by Maester Yandel (emphasize mine):

And so we come, nearly, to the end of the world.

Or, at least, the end of our knowledge.

Easternmost and southernmost of the great cities of the known world, the ancient port of Asshai stands at the end of a long wedge of land, on the point where the Jade Sea meets the Saffron Straits.

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Right, so how would they know there was a ruin on Ulos? And after discovering this, they didn't even mention it in A world of ice and fire. I thought that it was a slip of the artist or it was put there intentionally. I am guessing the second, but on a trolling manner.

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16 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Right, so how would they know there was a ruin on Ulos? And after discovering this, they didn't even mention it in A world of ice and fire. I thought that it was a slip of the artist or it was put there intentionally. I am guessing the second, but on a trolling manner.

Ulos is depicted in A World of Ice and Fire. (that's the app, which uses the maps from The Lands of Ice and Fire). Yandel doesn't cover Ulthos at all in The World of Ice and Fire, so it is no surprise that Ulos isn't mentioned either. 

I don't think it likely that anything made it onto those maps without GRRM's approval. So the ruined city is definitly placed there on purpose.

As to why the city has no name... The maester's can't depict anything of which they have no knowledge. And seeing a city is sooner done that learning its name, I suppose. If no people live closeby, whoever discovered the city and informed the maesters or whoever drew the maps "in universe" would not have been able to learn the name of the city from them. Perhaps, whoever observed the city did not even set foot in it... Perhaps it is visible by sea, and thus was the city only observed by sea, the seafarers not being willing to set foot on Ulos at all. So many possibilities..

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16 hours ago, Ckram said:

[name]

It's something that could hold me, if I was in their place.

However, reading the dialogue, that didn't seem to be what was holding them.

Possibly, although as Tucu said above the Kingsguards' motivations and plans are far from clear.

16 hours ago, Tucu said:

They were not revealing their plans to Ned, just telling him that they were not surrendering or fleeing at that point. Blocking the door and awaiting a siege was not a viable option.

 

14 hours ago, Anton Martell said:

I think they wanted to fight outside to avoid stress to Lyanna maybe? They probably felt like they could kill Ned and his companions easily, and the further away from the pregnant lady, the better, no?

This is also quite likely: you don't want to be fighting with a woman giving birth to your prince in the room.

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19 hours ago, Ckram said:

@Tucu

Isn't that what they just called what Darry did with Rhaella and Viserys?

I don't call it fleeing, but the three kingsguards seemed to do.

 

Willem Darry fled the king, when he left with Viserys and Rhaella.  The three at the tower are comparing that to going to Dragonstone, now, to be with Rhaella and Viserys.  I am not too sure that GRRM could have been any clearer, without a plain statement. 

Looking at past accomplishments of Kingsguard on the field of battle is illuminating.  Jaime killed a dozen at the Whispering Woods.  Barristan killed a dozen at the Trident.  Arthur Dayne with Dawn is better than Barristan, and without Dawn is equal to Barristan.  How on earth did 5 middling fighters, a carrnogman, and a squire fresh from a year in the Black Cells manage to defeat Arthur Dayne, let alone Whent and Hightower?  GRRM owes us an in depth explanation.  ;) 

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49 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

Willem Darry fled the king, when he left with Viserys and Rhaella.  The three at the tower are comparing that to going to Dragonstone, now, to be with Rhaella and Viserys.  I am not too sure that GRRM could have been any clearer, without a plain statement. 

Looking at past accomplishments of Kingsguard on the field of battle is illuminating.  Jaime killed a dozen at the Whispering Woods.  Barristan killed a dozen at the Trident.  Arthur Dayne with Dawn is better than Barristan, and without Dawn is equal to Barristan.  How on earth did 5 middling fighters, a carrnogman, and a squire fresh from a year in the Black Cells manage to defeat Arthur Dayne, let alone Whent and Hightower?  GRRM owes us an in depth explanation.  ;) 

I think it was already hinted:

Mudmen are sneaks, they won't fight like decent folks, they skulk and use poison arrows.

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32 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

crannogmen don't know how to fight in battles or wield swords...

Where is this established? I think they have a tendency to use different weapons and tactics than the rest of Westeros, but it seems like you're taking it to the extreme. Don't Jojen and Meera take swords from the crypts? And they certainly fight battles, they just don't usually ride horses or line up in front of their enemies in formation. But I don't see why Holwand would be incapable of these things.

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31 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Where is this established? I think they have a tendency to use different weapons and tactics than the rest of Westeros, but it seems like you're taking it to the extreme. Don't Jojen and Meera take swords from the crypts? And they certainly fight battles, they just don't usually ride horses or line up in front of their enemies in formation. But I don't see why Holwand would be incapable of these things.

Meera and Jojen never use those swords, Meera only fights using her three pronged spear and net, which is how her father taught her to fight.

The crannogmen aren't mentioned to be fighting in Robb's army either.

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14 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Meera and Jojen never use those swords, Meera only fights using her three pronged spear and net, which is how her father taught her to fight.

The crannogmen aren't mentioned to be fighting in Robb's army either.

Right, but we don't know that she doesn't know how to swing a sword. I know Robb left the Crannogmen to guard the Neck as they always do. Again they don't normally fight the traditional way. But I don't see why Howland Reed couldn't fight alongside Ned in the Rebellion. Generalizations only go so far. Howland was already something of an outlier for leaving the Neck and/or attending the tournament at Harrenhal. (I dunno maybe it's normal for Crannogmen to go to the Isle of Faces, but not to a tourney.) Whether he used a sword or not I don't see an issue with him riding with and fighting alongside Ned during the war. Especially if Ned tended to command from the rear, I don't recall. 

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Where is this established? I think they have a tendency to use different weapons and tactics than the rest of Westeros, but it seems like you're taking it to the extreme. Don't Jojen and Meera take swords from the crypts? And they certainly fight battles, they just don't usually ride horses or line up in front of their enemies in formation. But I don't see why Holwand would be incapable of these things.

Perhaps he served as The Ned's aide de camp. Hamilton was short too. :)

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3 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Do we know the whereabouts of Howland Reed during the rebellion, (excepting the TOJ portion of course)?

He couldn't have been with Ned the whole time, as crannogmen don't know how to fight in battles or wield swords...

No info on that. I venture that Howlie was with Ned the whole time, in the remote case he did any fighting during the battles. My best guess is that he was hand chosen by Ned as the 'companions' that were to scour the lands looking for Lyanna, but during the Robellion he stayed in the Neck.

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Is there any point in Jaime's reflections on Ned and Arthur that blames or thinks negatively towards Ned for killing his idol?  Or simply because of the interaction in the throne room after Aerys' murder? Maybe Jaime doesn't know ToJ details but you would think he would have known some details about where Arthur, Gerold and Whent went or why they never returned alive.  

 

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7 hours ago, Rob Storm said:

 

Is there any point in Jaime's reflections on Ned and Arthur that blames or thinks negatively towards Ned for killing his idol?  Or simply because of the interaction in the throne room after Aerys' murder? Maybe Jaime doesn't know ToJ details but you would think he would have known some details about where Arthur, Gerold and Whent went or why they never returned alive.  

 

It's actually something I never thought about, thanks for bringing it up

 

How the hell did Jaime not now about the whole Lyanna situation? They were all brothers and until Jaime's betrayal they shared a lot, didn't they? Why didn't he know at least something about Lyanna (if not the whole deal)? 

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22 hours ago, MtnLion said:

Willem Darry fled the king, when he left with Viserys and Rhaella.  The three at the tower are comparing that to going to Dragonstone, now, to be with Rhaella and Viserys.  I am not too sure that GRRM could have been any clearer, without a plain statement. 

Looking at past accomplishments of Kingsguard on the field of battle is illuminating.  Jaime killed a dozen at the Whispering Woods.  Barristan killed a dozen at the Trident.  Arthur Dayne with Dawn is better than Barristan, and without Dawn is equal to Barristan.  How on earth did 5 middling fighters, a carrnogman, and a squire fresh from a year in the Black Cells manage to defeat Arthur Dayne, let alone Whent and Hightower?  GRRM owes us an in depth explanation.  ;) 

Arthur may be better than Barristan but that doesn't mean numbers can't skew the odds. Sure Jaime has the line about Arthur being able to take multiple opponents at once, but I suspect a lot of that was just fluff

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Arthur may be better than Barristan but that doesn't mean numbers can't skew the odds. Sure Jaime has the line about Arthur being able to take multiple opponents at once, but I suspect a lot of that was just fluff

We could bring screenplay Barristan and Grey Worm into the discussion.  It seems clear that there is level of fighter that is far above the ordinary skilled fighter. GRRM did write that Jaime killed a dozen good men, and Barristan killed a dozen good men. Even half that number skews the odds severely against Ned's party. Ned's party consists of five maybe good men (no mention of health from earlier battles), a crannogman and a boy squire, all having been travelling in haste for near a fortnight (by my calendar). 

@Rob StormThe great standoff between Ned and Jaime is because Ned wanted Robert to send Jaime to the Wall, at a minimum, for breaking his oath.  Instead Robert forgave him.  Ned regards Jaime as an oath breaker.  Jaime resents that his finest deed is viewed so dimly by The Ned.  There is nothing in the White Book that we know of regarding those three dying, except in the screenplay.  Only Jaime and Barristan would write to the White Book, or read from it.  I wonder who the screenplay will make Lord Commander, now.  (Let's hope not Ser Robert.) 

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