The Fattest Leech Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Is there a good explanation that I have missed along the interweb roads that gives the reason to why the NW vows says walls plural? I am sure there is and I have just missed it. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 14 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: Is there a good explanation that I have missed along the interweb roads that gives the reason to why the NW vows says walls plural? I am sure there is and I have just missed it. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. There is the second wall theory. There has been some discussion surrounding this quote but nothing that I would consider particularly good. My two cents: I don't think it means anything. Just another case of this fandom reading too much into an insignificant detail that Martin probably never gave much thought to. Either that or The Wall as we know it postdates the first Long Night and the NW were initially guarding multiple fortifications against the Others, hence the plural "walls". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Consigliere said: There is the second wall theory. There has been some discussion surrounding this quote but nothing that I would consider particularly good. My two cents: I don't think it means anything. Just another case of this fandom reading too much into an insignificant detail that Martin probably never gave much thought to. Either that or The Wall as we know it postdates the first Long Night and the NW were initially guarding multiple fortifications against the Others, hence the plural "walls". Wow. Thanks for the link. And HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/28/2016 at 11:53 PM, Shuvuuia said: Does he mean "they" are dornishmen, ie marchers call dornishmen liars and dornishmen call marchers liars or does he mean "they" as people in general? The former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/28/2016 at 5:00 PM, Yaya said: hello all: i haven't ready the hedge knight novels/novellas ... should i be investing in them ? is there critical history to glean that i won't find in the (i forgot the title, i'm away from my bookcase!) big world book? Yes, and they are great reads. You should read The Princess and the Queen and The Rogue Prince too, but they are less enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 29.12.2016 at 5:14 PM, Nittanian said: This is correct. 7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: The former. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 On 12/31/2016 at 0:39 PM, The Fattest Leech said: Is there a good explanation that I have missed along the interweb roads that gives the reason to why the NW vows says walls plural? I am sure there is and I have just missed it. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. Because war against the Others wasn't fought on the wall because it wasn't built yet. It was fought on every castle wall in westerose and every man who fought them was a brother of the nights watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 8 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: Because war against the Others wasn't fought on the wall because it wasn't built yet. It was fought on every castle wall in westerose and every man who fought them was a brother of the nights watch. The pack survives! Thanks for the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 31.12.2016 at 8:39 PM, The Fattest Leech said: Is there a good explanation that I have missed along the interweb roads that gives the reason to why the NW vows says walls plural? I am sure there is and I have just missed it. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. I'd be more or less with @Sensenmenn on this. The vow of the Night's Watch as well as the institution itself most likely goes back to the days of the Long Night and the War for the Dawn where there were wights and Others all over the place. The majority of the surviving First Men most likely fought against the Others and already had precursors to the black brothers who might have been charged with defending the women and children in the holdfasts and keeps against the enemies. A lot of their jobs would have been watching for hordes of wights and Others from the walls of the keeps, etc. The Night's Watch most definitely must have been the most powerful (and most popular/honored) institution in the centuries after the Long Night. Else the people of the Hundred Kingdoms would never have supported it as long as they did. In addition there is also the fact that the Wall was built over thousands of years. Originally it might have been just a fence, or multiple smaller walls who eventually formed an unbroken line. The Children and giants helping in the building of the Wall might first have begun building at multiple spots, possibly around the places where the castles were raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: I'd be more or less with @Sensenmenn on this. The vow of the Night's Watch as well as the institution itself most likely goes back to the days of the Long Night and the War for the Dawn where there were wights and Others all over the place. The majority of the surviving First Men most likely fought against the Others and already had precursors to the black brothers who might have been charged with defending the women and children in the holdfasts and keeps against the enemies. A lot of their jobs would have been watching for hordes of wights and Others from the walls of the keeps, etc. The Night's Watch most definitely must have been the most powerful (and most popular/honored) institution in the centuries after the Long Night. Else the people of the Hundred Kingdoms would never have supported it as long as they did. In addition there is also the fact that the Wall was built over thousands of years. Originally it might have been just a fence, or multiple smaller walls who eventually formed an unbroken line. The Children and giants helping in the building of the Wall might first have begun building at multiple spots, possibly around the places where the castles were raised. This is essentially what I thought as well. I didn't know if there was ever a more definitive answer , but I also know history from way back then is sketchy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Quote As a reward for his leal service, the new-crowned king had given Victarion the dusky woman, taken off some slaver bound for Lys. “I want none of your leavings,” he had told his brother scornfully, but when the Crow’s Eye said that the woman would be killed unless he took her, he had weakened. Her tongue had been torn out, but elsewise she was undamaged, and beautiful besides, with skin as brown as oiled teak. Yet sometimes when he looked at her, he found himself remembering the first woman his brother had given him, to make a man of him. The Reaver, Feast 29 What do you suppose was so bad about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Why was The Red Lion angry about Genna's betrothal to Emmon Frey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: The Reaver, Feast 29 What do you suppose was so bad about that? Perhaps Euron had slept with the same girl, before. “I want none of your leavings,” 10 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Why was The Red Lion angry about Genna's betrothal to Emmon Frey? Perhaps he felt that Tytos's acceptance of the offer by Walder was an insult to the entire Westerlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 My assumption was that Roger hoped that he, Reynard, or another Reyne would marry Genna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Nittanian said: My assumption was that Roger hoped that he, Reynard, or another Reyne would marry Genna. That's what I was thinking. Was there any confirmation of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Is there any reason to believe that Varys suggested the Bronn-Lollys marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Is there any reason to believe that Varys suggested the Bronn-Lollys marriage? If you think that Cersei is incapable of coming up with that idea herself. Otherwise, no. Varys has better things to be doing than taking away Tyrion's sellsword. Bronn would not fight the Mountain anyway, he said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Nittanian said: My assumption was that Roger hoped that he, Reynard, or another Reyne would marry Genna. I considered that as well, but wouldn't the age difference be an obstacle here? As ruling Lord, Roger would be expected to have heirs to continue House Reyne. Roger had ruled since 233 AC, and Genna had been only been seven at her betrothal (in 252 AC), with an age difference between them of at least 27 years, possibly even more. If the Red Lion had expected to wed Genna, he would have been at least nearing 40 when he got married. For a ruling lord, wouldn't that be a bit late? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: I considered that as well, but wouldn't the age difference be an obstacle here? As ruling Lord, Roger would be expected to have heirs to continue House Reyne. Roger had ruled since 233 AC, and Genna had been only been seven at her betrothal (in 252 AC), with an age difference between them of at least 27 years, possibly even more. If the Red Lion had expected to wed Genna, he would have been at least nearing 40 when he got married. For a ruling lord, wouldn't that be a bit late? How old was Roose Bolton when he wed Fat Walda Frey? Jon Arryn when he wed Lysa Tully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: How old was Roose Bolton when he wed Fat Walda Frey? Jon Arryn when he wed Lysa Tully? Those were not their first marriages, however. Roose had had an heir by an earlier wife, and Jon had been married twice before. If Roger hoped to have his heir be related to House Lannister by blood, he would have been relatively old when Genna became old enough to marry. If we're talking about a second (or later) marriage, then Roger's age is far less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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