Small Questions v. 10105

[Lost Melnibonean]

52 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

1. How people in Westeros navigate? Or know how to get from place A to place B. After all accurate maps should be rare and very expensive and Painted Table is not mobile.

2. How those maps were made?

Few small folk would have ventured more than 20 miles from home during their entire lives. 

[Corvo the Crow]

Were there any marriage candidates for Jaime in Tywin's mind, before Jaime became part of kingsguard? He refused a very suitable betrothal proposal in Elia, second in line to Dorne, who could be a good replacement?

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Were there any marriage candidates for Jaime in Tywin's mind, before Jaime became part of kingsguard? He refused a very suitable betrothal proposal in Elia, second in line to Dorne, who could be a good replacement?

I believe he was to marry Lysa Tully at one point, but I could be misremembering. 

But how awkward would that marriage have been??? You'd have to put iron bars on all the windows to keep people inside. 

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I believe he was to marry Lysa Tully at one point, but I could be misremembering. 

But how awkward would that marriage have been??? You'd have to put iron bars on all the windows to keep people inside. 

Since we don't have that many higher born people around that age, I wonder how it'd go with a Jaime-Selyse marriage

[Raisin' Bran]

8 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I believe he was to marry Lysa Tully at one point, but I could be misremembering. 

But how awkward would that marriage have been??? You'd have to put iron bars on all the windows to keep people inside. 

You are not mistaken. But something tells me that Tywin would not be ok with the match once Lysa's pregnancy became known.

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Since we don't have that many higher born people around that age, I wonder how it'd go with a Jaime-Selyse marriage

Yeah, I don't think Tywin would be ok with that arrangement either.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Raisin' Bran said:

You are not mistaken. But something tells me that Tywin would not be ok with the match once Lysa's pregnancy became known.

This was before Jaime was named to Aerys's Kingsguard. How old was Lysa? 

[Lommy's Shade]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

This was before Jaime was named to Aerys's Kingsguard. How old was Lysa? 

In AFFC, Jamie reflects that he was younger than Peck when Crakehall sent him to Riverrun to deliver a message, which was just a pretext to introduce him to Lysa. So both he and Lysa would have been around 14 or 15 years old. I don't think Lysa became pregnant until a couple of years later by which time Jamie was in the Kingsguard.

[Ckram]

@Lost Melnibonean 

Before. According to the wiki, KW Brotherhood was disbanded in 281 AC. Again, according to the wiki, Lysa was born between 266-268 AC. So, I imagine Lysa was 13-15.

Quote

ASOS - Jaime II

Jaime, meantime, had spent four years as squire to Ser Sumner Crakehall and earned his spurs against the Kingswood Brotherhood. But when he made a brief call at King's Landing on his way back to Casterly Rock, chiefly to see his sister, Cersei took him aside and whispered that Lord Tywin meant to marry him to Lysa Tully, had gone so far as to invite Lord Hoster to the city to discuss dower. 

AFFC - Jaime V

"The first time I saw Riverrun, I was a squire green as summer grass," Jaime told his cousin. "Old Sumner Crakehall sent me to deliver a message, one he swore could not be entrusted to a raven. Lord Hoster kept me for a fortnight whilst mulling his reply, and sat me beside his daughter Lysa at every meal."

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/14/2017 at 2:27 AM, Lommy's Shade said:

In AFFC, Jamie reflects that he was younger than Peck when Crakehall sent him to Riverrun to deliver a message, which was just a pretext to introduce him to Lysa. So both he and Lysa would have been around 14 or 15 years old. I don't think Lysa became pregnant until a couple of years later by which time Jamie was in the Kingsguard.

Exactly. It's contrary to fact, but if Lysa had been betrothed to Jaime Lannister, she might have felt differently about Petyr. 

[Raisin' Bran]

17 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Exactly. It's contrary to fact, but if Lysa had been betrothed to Jaime Lannister, she might have felt differently about Petyr. 

I am not sure about if she would have felt differently about Petyr.

*This is complete speculation*

Lysa strikes me as the jealous little sister to Catelyn. Since Petyr was obsessed with Cat and only paid attention to Lysa when the three were together, Lysa would likely obsess over Petyr's every word, mood, smile, and touch. Because Petyr was constantly there at Riverrun and Jaime only came for 2 weeks and was gone again, I do not think that Jaime's fleeting acquaintance would change Lysa's feelings/behavior much, even if she were betrothed to the heir to CR. Cat was betrothed to the heir of WF, but no mention is made of Lysa obsessing over Brandon Stark.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 11-10-2017 at 9:59 PM, The Wondering Wolf said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen is known to know such things.

Edit.: According to her timeline, Beric dies around three months before the hatching of the dragons.

I did not create the timeline I am able to edit it (and have done so, trying to fix issues and find new clues in the books), but that started only after it was already created. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Don't let @Rhaenys_Targaryen fool you... A very, very good timeline had been drafted by folks over at Reddit, but RT improved it dramatically. Her attention to detail when it comes to time issues is second to none. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

Twelve years before the Doom of Valyria (114 BC), Aenar Targaryen sold his holdings in the Freehold and the Lands of the Long Summer and moved with all his wives, wealth, slaves, dragons, siblings, kin, and children to Dragonstone, a bleak island citadel beneath a smoking mountain in the narrow sea.

The Conquest, TWOIAF

When did House Targaryen stop holding, buying, and selling slaves? 

Who held Dragonstone before Aenar moved his house to the bleak island citadel beneath the smoking mountain in the Narrow Sea? The castle was already built, yes? 

[Corvo the Crow]

Are there any known people with grey eyes besides the first men? I was searching for something and come across this

Quote

Some of the soldiers were tall and some were short. They ranged in age from fourteen to twenty, she judged. Their cheeks were smooth, and their eyes all the same, be they black or brown or blue or grey or amber. They are like one man, Dany thought, until she remembered that they were no men at all. The Unsullied were eunuchs, every one of them. "Why do you cut them?" she asked Kraznys through the slave girl. "Whole men are stronger than eunuchs, I have always heard."

Could these unsullied be the descendants of first men that chose to stay in Essos?

[Nittanian]

29 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Are there any known people with grey eyes besides the first men?

Aside from northmen, ironborn, and free folk, others with grey eyes include Luwin, Sandor Clegane, Stevron Frey, Mandon Moore, Qhorin Halfhand, Haldon Halfmaester, and Harry Strickland. Petyr Baelish and Aurane Waters have grey-green eyes, while Yohn Royce's are slate grey. Denys and Jason Mallister have blue-grey eyes. 

[Ckram]

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

When did House Targaryen stop holding, buying, and selling slaves?

Probably some time after the Dragonstone Sept was built.

And since it was made with the masts of the ship that brought the Targaryens to the island, probably a few years after the arrival of Aenar.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Nittanian said:

Aside from northmen, ironborn, and free folk, others with grey eyes include Luwin, Sandor Clegane, Stevron Frey, Mandon Moore, Qhorin Halfhand, Haldon Halfmaester, and Harry Strickland. Petyr Baelish and Aurane Waters have grey-green eyes, while Yohn Royce's are slate grey. Denys and Jason Mallister have blue-grey eyes. 

Aside from Petyr Baelish and Aurane Waters grey-green eyes we either don't know whether if these characters/houses are originally first men or andal. The one we know of, Yohn Royce is a first men. Also though we don't know about the origin of Freys, Stevron has a Royce mother.

So with your post in hand now, I think some of these unsullied are directly related to the First Men. Thanks! I'll try and see if I can find a location of their coming.

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

We know that Astapor and Yunkai use a variation on the harpy of the Old Empire of Ghis; Astapor's harpy has a chain with open manacles at either end handing in its talons, while Yunkai's harpy grasp a whip and an iron collar in its talons. The original harpy, of Old Ghis, grasped a thunderbolt in its talons.

Do we know what the harpy of Meereen has grasped with its talons?

[Lost Melnibonean]

31 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

We know that Astapor and Yunkai use a variation on the harpy of the Old Empire of Ghis; Astapor's harpy has a chain with open manacles at either end handing in its talons, while Yunkai's harpy grasp a whip and an iron collar in its talons. The original harpy, of Old Ghis, grasped a thunderbolt in its talons.

Do we know what the harpy of Meereen has grasped with its talons?

I could not find it in the five regular novels. 

[Lizard Queen]

Things I've wondered about:

Did Walder Frey keep Roslin (presumably his best looking daughter) out of Catelyn's sight when discussing a marriage between a Frey girl and Robb? If so, why?

Why did he give Roslin to Edmure for marriage?