Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10105

2,262 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ok, what do you make of this?

Winds of Winter - Theon I

 
  Hide contents

 

And Jeyne had nodded. "Arya. My name is Arya."
[Mors Umber] "Arya of Winterfell, aye. When last I was inside those walls, your cook served us a steak and kidney pie. Made with ale, I think, best I ever tasted. What was his name, that cook?"
"Gage," Jeyne said at once. "He was a good cook. He would make lemoncakes for Sansa whenever we had lemons."

 

 
 
As a matter of fact, this seems to be the only place in the entire series where steak and kidney pie is mentioned. https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=steak+and+kidney+pie+

However, best as I can find, Mors would have last been at Winterfell for the Harvest feast back in ACOK/Bran III, and there they had this (below), which means fArya answered the wrong question (or failed to correct Mors) so he knows fArya is fake, because there was no pie as mentioned in the TWOW chapter... or, George messed up (I know TWOW is 'as is' until published):

A Clash of Kings - Bran III

"You did well, Bran," Ser Rodrik told him. "Lord Eddard would have been most proud." Down the table, Maester Luwin nodded his agreement as the servers began to carry in the food.
Such food Bran had never seen; course after course after course, so much that he could not manage more than a bite or two of each dish. There were great joints of aurochs roasted with leeks, venison pies chunky with carrots, bacon, and mushrooms, mutton chops sauced in honey and cloves, savory duck, peppered boar, goose, skewers of pigeon and capon, beef-and-barley stew, cold fruit soup. Lord Wyman had brought twenty casks of fish from White Harbor packed in salt and seaweed; whitefish and winkles, crabs and mussels, clams, herring, cod, salmon, lobster and lampreys. There was black bread and honeycakes and oaten biscuits; there were turnips and pease and beets, beans and squash and huge red onions; there were baked apples and berry tarts and pears poached in strongwine. Wheels of white cheese were set at every table, above and below the salt, and flagons of hot spice wine and chilled autumn ale were passed up and down the tables.
Lord Wyman's musicians played bravely and well, but harp and fiddle and horn were soon drowned beneath a tide of talk and laughter, the clash of cup and plate, and the snarling of hounds fighting for table scraps. The singer sang good songs, "Iron Lances" and "The Burning of the Ships" and "The Bear and the Maiden Fair," but only Hodor seemed to be listening. He stood beside the piper, hopping from one foot to the other.

Mors was at Winterfell for more than one day, and thus the steak and kidney pie were one of the many meals made by Gage that he would have eaten. That it wasn't served (as far as we know) at the Harvest Feast doesn't mean it wasn't prepared by Gage at another time while Mors was there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Mors knew Arya was not there for the harvest feast in ACOK (since she went south with Ned in AGOT), so why would he expect her to know if a specific dish was served at a feast which she didn't attend? Jeyne doesn't agree or disagree with the pie comment, but she does correctly answer that Gage was Winterfell's cook. At this point I think it more likely to be a discrepancy by GRRM rather than an attempt at trickery.

I almost missed your post without a tag to me :P

I did have the Arya bit in there, but decided for some reason to delete it just before I submitted my small question.

6 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Mors was at Winterfell for more than one day, and thus the steak and kidney pie were one of the many meals made by Gage that he would have eaten. That it wasn't served (as far as we know) at the Harvest Feast doesn't mean it wasn't prepared by Gage at another time while Mors was there.

Gotcha. I know George is extremely detailed with his descriptions- they are there for a reason- I was actually curious if this was just a discrepancy that we may see printed, or if it will change and match up later, or if it could be as you describe it. :dunno:

Cheers to you both :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I skimmed through the Patchface Project thread to look for this and wasn't able to find it (unless of course I just completely missed it), but when Patchface sings about "old fish eating new fish" in ASOS (between the Red and Purple weddings) is this simply a reference to upcoming power dynamics? Olenna murdering Joffrey, Euron taking power from his younger brothers and niece, Cersei framing Margaery, etc. Or is there reason to believe it's referring to something more specific? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I skimmed through the Patchface Project thread to look for this and wasn't able to find it (unless of course I just completely missed it), but when Patchface sings about "old fish eating new fish" in ASOS (between the Red and Purple weddings) is this simply a reference to upcoming power dynamics? Olenna murdering Joffrey, Euron taking power from his younger brothers and niece, Cersei framing Margaery, etc. Or is there reason to believe it's referring to something more specific? 

Not a small question, since there are many possibilities, but here's one...

Quote

At the top of the steps Davos heard a soft jingle of bells that could only herald Patchface. The princess's fool was waiting outside the maester's door for her like a faithful hound. Dough-soft and slump-shouldered, his broad face tattooed in a motley pattern of red and green squares, Patchface wore a helm made of a rack of deer antlers strapped to a tin bucket. A dozen bells hung from the tines and rang when he moved . . . which meant constantly, since the fool seldom stood still. He jingled and jangled his way everywhere he went; small wonder that Pylos had exiled him from Shireen's lessons. "Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish," the fool muttered at Davos. He bobbed his head, and his bells clanged and chimed and sang. "I know, I know, oh oh oh."

Melisandre is old...

Quote

 

... Strange voices called to her from days long past.

...

... Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price.

 

Shireen is young...

Quote

Her name was Shireen. She would be ten on her next name day, and she was the saddest child that Maester Cressen had ever known.

Melisandre wants king’s blood...

Quote

 

Melisandre moved closer. "Save them, sire. Let me wake the stone dragons. Three is three. Give me the boy."

...

... He turned back to Melisandre. "You swear there is no other way? Swear it on your life, for I promise, you shall die by inches if you lie."

... Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. "Give me this boy," she whispered, "and I will give you your kingdom."

"He can't," said Davos. "Edric Storm is gone."

 

Shireen has king’s blood, and she is a dead girl...

Quote

 

"If Stannis wins his war, Shireen will stand as heir to the Iron Throne."

"Then I pity your Seven Kingdoms."

"The maesters say greyscale is not—"

"The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean! "

"She seems a sweet girl. You cannot know—"

"I can. You know nothing, Jon Snow." Val seized his arm. "I want the monster out of there. Him and his wet nurses. You cannot leave them in that same tower as the dead girl."

 

Melisandre cannot burn Edric Storm, but she is going to burn Shireen with Selyse’s blessing, since they will both be desperate having seen Jon Snow betrayed and wounded or dead, and having come to believe that Ramsay has defeated and killed Stannis.

And the old fish will eat the young fish. Poor Shireen.

Stannis is gonna be pissed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Not a small question, since there are many possibilities, but here's one...

Melisandre is old...

Shireen is young...

Melisandre wants king’s blood...

Shireen has king’s blood, and she is a dead girl...

Melisandre cannot burn Edric Storm, but she is going to burn Shireen with Selyse’s blessing, since they will both be desperate having seen Jon Snow betrayed and wounded or dead, and having come to believe that Ramsay has defeated and killed Stannis.

And the old fish will eat the young fish. Poor Shireen.

Stannis is gonna be pissed. 

Oh, wow, I hadn't even considered that. That's a great interpretation. Poor Shireen, indeed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2017 at 8:13 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Not a small question, since there are many possibilities, but here's one...

Melisandre is old...

Shireen is young...

Melisandre wants king’s blood...

Shireen has king’s blood, and she is a dead girl...

Melisandre cannot burn Edric Storm, but she is going to burn Shireen with Selyse’s blessing, since they will both be desperate having seen Jon Snow betrayed and wounded or dead, and having come to believe that Ramsay has defeated and killed Stannis.

And the old fish will eat the young fish. Poor Shireen.

Stannis is gonna be pissed. 

Nicely done. A distinct possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It also has occurred to me that this could just be a metaphor for how innocents (especially children) are the ones to suffer when their elders wage war. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, @Lost Melnibonean. But what's the goal, if they think Stannis is dead, the war lost, and Jon is dead too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Interesting, @Lost Melnibonean. But what's the goal, if they think Stannis is dead, the war lost, and Jon is dead too?

To wake the dragon, Stannis? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

To wake the dragon, Stannis? 

Even if they believe him dead and quite far away physically? Could be... Mel is a zealot, so there's really no limits to what she may do or how far she may go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Even if they believe him dead and quite far away physically? Could be... Mel is a zealot, so there's really no limits to what she may do or how far she may go. 

That's what I am thinking. With Jon and Stannis dead, she will be desperate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's what I am thinking. With Jon and Stannis dead, she will be desperate. 

Yeah. Desperate, and completely unfettered by morals or someone in authority etc. I can see that happening. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/07/2017 at 11:13 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

"Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish," the fool muttered at Davos. He bobbed his head, and his bells clanged and chimed and sang. "I know, I know, oh oh oh."

I was thinking that Patchface reverses everything in these little rhymes. So the way I took this was that the older generation will be eaten and replaced by the younger generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Travis said:

I was thinking that Patchface reverses everything in these little rhymes. So the way I took this was that the older generation will be eaten and replaced by the younger generation.

I had not considered that idea. Wouldn't that require that every utterance of Patchface is reversed? I think the George uses "under the sea" to allude to death. In this case, Stannis's presumed ďeath. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I had not considered that idea. Wouldn't that require that every utterance of Patchface is reversed? I think the George uses "under the sea" to allude to death. In this case, Stannis's presumed ďeath. 

Could be. He is such a mysterious character. I think there is something very important to him, but can't pin it down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Travis said:

Could be. He is such a mysterious character. I think there is something very important to him, but can't pin it down.

He's a Secret Targ! :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8-7-2017 at 4:56 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I skimmed through the Patchface Project thread to look for this and wasn't able to find it (unless of course I just completely missed it), but when Patchface sings about "old fish eating new fish" in ASOS (between the Red and Purple weddings) is this simply a reference to upcoming power dynamics? Olenna murdering Joffrey, Euron taking power from his younger brothers and niece, Cersei framing Margaery, etc. Or is there reason to believe it's referring to something more specific? 

It also kind of brings to mind Varys's statement to Tyrion in ACOK

"The storms come and go, the waves crash overhead, the big fish eat the little fish, and I keep on paddling. Might I trouble you for a taste of the wine that Lord Slynt enjoyed so much?"

Despite the wars and struggles for power between the nobles, Varys keeps "paddling". 

Perhaps "the old fish eat the young" is an indication that the old power (Targaryen dynasty/7 separate kingdoms) will replace the new power (Baratheon/Lannister dynasty)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is not a small question, but since we haven't seen many small questions lately...

Who is the boy, the friend of Kem? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I know this is not a small question, but since we haven't seen many small questions lately...

Who is the boy, the friend of Kem? 

Hi LM, maybe someone should start a thread. Good question. I did a short search. Came up with a 2013 thread.

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Hi LM, maybe someone should start a thread. Good question. I did a short search. Came up with a 2013 thread.

 

That's a pretty short thread! I have seen Tyrek Lannister proposed, but I never bought it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now