Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10105

2,457 posts in this topic

Just to check something. I have my translated copy of GoT and in first Dany chapter she's thinking about Drogo's bloodriders and she starts thinking about kings guard and that she'll need a reliable people who will protect her son, when he sits on Iron throne. Can someone quote me this passage and confirm that it's the same in the original?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why not?

Because war is still going on, even though there are no battles being fought at the time. A Westerlander can't join Edmure's wedding so must be another, currently unknown house with a treecat sigil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question about Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree. It's about a bunch of articles like that: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-rightful-claim-to-the-iron-throne-after-the-game-of-thrones-finale-2016-6 I know that we don't have full Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree, but from what I could find (and I don't know if all those family trees I found are cannon) there might be something about that claim of Jamie being heir. it does seem that If we go back in Baratheon family tree, we see that Orwen Baratheon had many children, and it seems that they got married into Lannisters and Tullys. We have in order of seniority descendants of Saraya Baratheon and Brynden Tully, (descendants of Elyanna and Mathin?)Lannisters and Crakehalls. Since Stannis is not surviving and we don't know what happened to the Laughing Storm daughter is there a possibility that when Stannis dies, Lannisters or Tullys or Crakehalls could have a claim to Storm's End and/or Iron Throne? In case the only line of Baratehons from Orwen Baratheon that survived are Lannisters, Tullys and Crakehalls. 

Sarya married a Tully and they had a son Patrek. But we don't know what happend to this son or if he had any issue. We do know that this son wasn't hair to Riverrun.  But there could be a possibilty that Patrek Tully married back into Tullys. And if I am looking things right eventually descendants of Mathin Lannister become heirs to Casterly Rock.

Edited by Lady Darry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no complete Baratheon family tree, so I am not really sure what you are referring to. 

Edited by The Wondering Wolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Because war is still going on, even though there are no battles being fought at the time. A Westerlander can't join Edmure's wedding so must be another, currently unknown house with a treecat sigil.

For the moment, let’s assume that it's not a mistake. What does that suggest? Why would men from the Westerlands be at the Twins as the Red Wedding begins? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

For the moment, let’s assume that it's not a mistake. What does that suggest? Why would men from the Westerlands be at the Twins as the Red Wedding begins? 

Either prisoners or Tywin pulling some strings. I'd go for the first since this is moments before the wedding and this guy is literally chasing skirts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Either prisoners or Tywin pulling some strings. I'd go for the first since this is moments before the wedding and this guy is literally chasing skirts.

I am reading it as an example of the depth of the Frey-Lannister collaboration. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any idea who the wet nurse is that fled from Dragonstone with Dany across the narrow sea? Figure it's unimportant but just wanted to check

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2017 at 3:32 AM, apovsic said:

Just to check something. I have my translated copy of GoT and in first Dany chapter she's thinking about Drogo's bloodriders and she starts thinking about kings guard and that she'll need a reliable people who will protect her son, when he sits on Iron throne. Can someone quote me this passage and confirm that it's the same in the original?

Here it is...

Quote

Cohollo came to Dany as Irri and Jhiqui were helping her down off her silver. He was the oldest of Drogo's three bloodriders, a squat bald man with a crooked nose and a mouth full of broken teeth, shattered by a mace twenty years before when he saved the young khalakka from sellswords who hoped to sell him to his father's enemies. His life had been bound to Drogo's the day her lord husband was born.

Every khal had his bloodriders. At first Dany had thought of them as a kind of Dothraki Kingsguard, sworn to protect their lord, but it went further than that. Jhiqui had taught her that a bloodrider was more than a guard; they were the khal's brothers, his shadows, his fiercest friends. "Blood of my blood," Drogo called them, and so it was; they shared a single life. The ancient traditions of the horselords demanded that when the khal died, his bloodriders died with him, to ride at his side in the night lands. If the khal died at the hands of some enemy, they lived only long enough to avenge him, and then followed him joyfully into the grave. In some khalasars, Jhiqui said, the bloodriders shared the khal's wine, his tent, and even his wives, though never his horses. A man's mount was his own.

Daenerys was glad that Khal Drogo did not hold to those ancient ways. She should not have liked being shared. And while old Cohollo treated her kindly enough, the others frightened her; Haggo, huge and silent, often glowered as if he had forgotten who she was, and Qotho had cruel eyes and quick hands that liked to hurt. He left bruises on Doreah's soft white skin whenever he touched her, and sometimes made Irri sob in the night. Even his horses seemed to fear him.

Yet they were bound to Drogo for life and death, so Daenerys had no choice but to accept them. And sometimes she found herself wishing her father had been protected by such men. In the songs, the white knights of the Kingsguard were ever noble, valiant, and true, and yet King Aerys had been murdered by one of them, the handsome boy they now called the Kingslayer, and a second, Ser Barristan the Bold, had gone over to the Usurper. She wondered if all men were as false in the Seven Kingdoms. When her son sat the Iron Throne, she would see that he had bloodriders of his own to protect him against treachery in his Kingsguard.

Daenerys IV, Game 36

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16-9-2017 at 11:10 PM, Lady Darry said:

I have a question about Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree. It's about a bunch of articles like that: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-rightful-claim-to-the-iron-throne-after-the-game-of-thrones-finale-2016-6 I know that we don't have full Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree, but from what I could find (and I don't know if all those family trees I found are cannon) there might be something about that claim of Jamie being heir. it does seem that If we go back in Baratheon family tree, we see that Orwen Baratheon had many children, and it seems that they got married into Lannisters and Tullys. We have in order of seniority descendants of Saraya Baratheon and Brynden Tully, (descendants of Elyanna and Mathin?)Lannisters and Crakehalls. Since Stannis is not surviving and we don't know what happened to the Laughing Storm daughter is there a possibility that when Stannis dies, Lannisters or Tullys or Crakehalls could have a claim to Storm's End and/or Iron Throne? In case the only line of Baratehons from Orwen Baratheon that survived are Lannisters, Tullys and Crakehalls. 

Sarya married a Tully and they had a son Patrek. But we don't know what happend to this son or if he had any issue. We do know that this son wasn't hair to Riverrun.  But there could be a possibilty that Patrek Tully married back into Tullys. And if I am looking things right eventually descendants of Mathin Lannister become heirs to Casterly Rock.

It seems like that article is based on this family tree, which is fan-made and has used MUSH information which is not necessarily canonical. In addition, several canonical Baratheons that we do know of are missing from the tree (like Raymont, Davos, and Robar), and multiple incorrect placements can be seen (e.g. the father of Boremund and Jocelyn was Robar, who had been married to Alyssa Velaryon).

The only historical Baratheons that we know about can be found here.

So no, that family tree and article do not tell us anything about a claim to the Iron Throne. The creator of the family tree had even placed a statement with his image stating that the tree was purely fan-made and dd not reflect canonical information, but the people who used the image later on to create such articles chose to ignore that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2017 at 5:10 PM, Lady Darry said:

I have a question about Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree. It's about a bunch of articles like that: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-rightful-claim-to-the-iron-throne-after-the-game-of-thrones-finale-2016-6 I know that we don't have full Baratheon, Lannister and Tully family tree, but from what I could find (and I don't know if all those family trees I found are cannon) there might be something about that claim of Jamie being heir. it does seem that If we go back in Baratheon family tree, we see that Orwen Baratheon had many children, and it seems that they got married into Lannisters and Tullys. We have in order of seniority descendants of Saraya Baratheon and Brynden Tully, (descendants of Elyanna and Mathin?)Lannisters and Crakehalls. Since Stannis is not surviving and we don't know what happened to the Laughing Storm daughter is there a possibility that when Stannis dies, Lannisters or Tullys or Crakehalls could have a claim to Storm's End and/or Iron Throne? In case the only line of Baratehons from Orwen Baratheon that survived are Lannisters, Tullys and Crakehalls. 

Sarya married a Tully and they had a son Patrek. But we don't know what happend to this son or if he had any issue. We do know that this son wasn't hair to Riverrun.  But there could be a possibilty that Patrek Tully married back into Tullys. And if I am looking things right eventually descendants of Mathin Lannister become heirs to Casterly Rock.

Is this question motivated by the show? If so, you probably ought to post it on that side of the forum. The characters and their ancestries are different in the books. There is an argument for Jaime to be king, but it is tenuous. 

Tommen's crown derives from the presumption that he is the true born son of King Robert Baratheon and Queen Cersei Lannister. Cersei clearly believes that her daughter is Tommen's heir. However, we have seen a preference for males in the past. Mace Tyrell might try to press the issue and make Margaery queen regnant, but without an heir of Tommen's body, I wouldn't give him much of a chance. Next would be Stannis Baratheon, followed by his daughter Shireen, but Stannis is attainted, so he would have to seize the throne. 

Would we turn to Estermont, the house of Robert's mother, next? I think the Estermonts would have a more recognizable claim if the Baratheons had been the royal house before Robert. And if we loosen the royal blood requirement, Tommen has more immediate family on his mother's side in House Lannister. Cersei herself could claim the crown. If Jaime were released from his Kingsguard vows, he would be a stronger candidate. Tyrion is condemned to death. After that, we get as distant as the Estermonts. 

Sadly for Tommen, he will not be able to produce an heir for at least a few more years, and his sister is only a year or two older than him, so she is not going to be giving him a nephew anytime soon either. When Tommen dies, the Iron Throne will be completely up for grabs. No party will have a clear claim to the throne. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, KingMance said:

Any idea who the wet nurse is that fled from Dragonstone with Dany across the narrow sea? Figure it's unimportant but just wanted to check

It's Wylla. After she finished nursing Daenerys's twin on his way to Winterfell, a certain fishwife Eddard hat met from the Three Sisters took her to Dragonstone. ...

Just kidding :) 

No, I don't believe we have any idea who the wet nurse is, but whoever she is, I bet she had a fondness for lemons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

It's Wylla. After she finished nursing Daenerys's twin on his way to Winterfell, a certain fishwife Eddard hat met from the Three Sisters took her to Dragonstone. ...

Just kidding :) 

No, I don't believe we have any idea who the wet nurse is, but whoever she is, I bet she had a fondness for lemons. 

Har! And Wylla is obviously Quaithe, so I guess we need to look no further into the subject ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Here it is...

Thanks.

Now I wonder; why Dany thought her son will sit on the IT so early in the series? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, apovsic said:

Thanks.

Now I wonder; why Dany thought her son will sit on the IT so early in the series? 

Viserys did not have an heir, so Daenerys’s son would be his heir. (In any event, I got a silver stag says her son will sit the Iron throne.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question from the chapter where Theon and the Spearwives attempt to break Jeyne out of Winterfell (ADWD, Theon 1).

Quote

All the while Abel’s women waited, their faces shadowed by their cowls. They are doing it all wrong. Real serving girls were always teasing the potboys, flirting with the cooks, wheedling a taste of this, a bite of that. Rowan and her scheming sisters did not want to attract notice, but their sullen silence soon had the guards giving them queer looks. “Where’s Maisie and Jez and t’other girls?” one asked Theon. “The usual ones.”

I noticed that one of the (unseen) serving girls is named Maisie. Has GRRM ever outright stated that she was named for Maisie Williams? And, do we know if Jez was named after someone in real life?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Viserys did not have an heir, so Daenerys’s son would be his heir. 

Yeah, but in that case, shouldn't the phrasing be "if her son sat the It" not "when her son sat the IT"? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, apovsic said:

Yeah, but in that case, shouldn't the phrasing be "if her son sat the It" not "when her son sat the IT"? 

Possibly, but up until a few months before that quote, she had always assumed that Viserys would be her husband, and her son would be heir to the throne. So, just a passing thought rather than a deep reflection? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Possibly, but up until a few months before that quote, she had always assumed that Viserys would be her husband, and her son would be heir to the throne. So, just a passing thought rather than a deep reflection? 

Or maybe slip of tongue (well in this case, pen) of Martin? It reminds me on the AFfC passage, when Arianne starts her plot and thinks (or discuss) that the lion is dead, but on the next page she learns that Tywin is dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, apovsic said:

Or maybe slip of tongue (well in this case, pen) of Martin? It reminds me on the AFfC passage, when Arianne starts her plot and thinks (or discuss) that the lion is dead, but on the next page she learns that Tywin is dead.

Most likely. But if we can excuse it in universe, that's better, no? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now