Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10105

2,458 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, apovsic said:

Is there any note in the series or AWOIAF aboot a house changing it's words?

I have a question similar to this that I thought of while posting in another thread. 

Has there ever been a case, or is it even possible in Westeros, for an established higher ranking house to change their sigil?

I know families like the Fossaways adapted a red and green version (and I think one other) and Brynden Blackfish, but adaptions seem to be allowed for secondary branches. 

What about House Bolton? If Roose and Ramsay were to be killed off and Fat Walda allowed to live and birth her Bolton baby, and then that baby was fostered somewhere else to raise it "right", I'd imagine someone would want to change the flayed man emblem ASAP. 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have a question similar to this that I thought of while posting in another thread. 

Has there ever been a case, or is it even possible in Westeros, for an established higher ranking house to change their sigil?

I know families like the Fossaways adapted a red and green version (and I think one other) and Brynden Blackfish, but adaptions seem to be allowed for secondary branches. 

What about House Bolton? If Roose and Ramsay were to be killed off and Fat Walda allowed to live and birth her Bolton baby, and then that baby was fostered somewhere else to raise it "right", I'd imagine someone would want to change the flayed man emblem ASAP. 

House Toland in Dorne changed their sigil to a dragon biting its own tail, after they tricked Aegon during the conquest with a fake champion.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Toland

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15 minutes ago, Ser Duncan The Average said:

House Toland in Dorne changed their sigil to a dragon biting its own tail, after they tricked Aegon during the conquest with a fake champion.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Toland

Thank you. I'm not as good with some of these historical side details. Now I wish we had a picture of the Tolands first sigil with the ghost ^_^

So, to be clear, if the current Boltons were eliminated and the baby brought up the right way, House Bolton could live on, just with a face lift? ( sorry for the pun) 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

sorry for the pun

No, you're not, I see you still giggling.

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8 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

No, you're not, I see you still giggling.

Well I tried to stop but then you reminded me again :lmao:

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4 hours ago, winterfellbeyondthewall said:

I just checked the appendix and there is nothing stated concerning that matter. 

Thanks.

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yes. House of Trump was reported to have changed its words three times in three hours. 

^_^

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Q about sigils

Ahh, I was going to ask this question next. The fact that house did change the sigil probably means that some house probably change their motto.

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26 minutes ago, apovsic said:

Thanks.

^_^

Ahh, I was going to ask this question next. The fact that house did change the sigil probably means that some house probably change their motto.

Well, I hope what I asked also answered your question about sigil's.

And I guess if they can change their sigil, then they can change the words. I am assuming there is a formal process that the house leader has to go through with their leige lord, or warden, or maybe even the king? That is a lot of stationary to change up.

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14 hours ago, The Dame That Groans said:

when Benjen goes to Winterfell is there accounts of him and Ned talking? Obviously a Ned POV or maybe another Stark see's them speaking or such? 

 

At the end of Catelyn II, Ned tells Luwin he will talk to Benjen about Jon joining the Night's Watch

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5 hours ago, Ser Duncan The Average said:

House Toland in Dorne changed their sigil to a dragon biting its own tail, after they tricked Aegon during the conquest with a fake champion.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Toland

Also, we were discussing House Peake's three castles the other day in another thread. Unlike the Toland's there's nothing official iirc, but it seems a pretty safe bet that they didn't just get three castles then designed their coat of arms. More likely, at some point the House changed its official sigil to that because it looked cooler than whatever they had before (two castles?)

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Which makes me think of the story of the Freys of the Crossing and how they built that bridge and added the keeps to it. If they already had arms then, they must have adjusted them over time.

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Anyone know of theories/breakdowns of the ritual MMD was performing in the tent and where I might be able to find them?  Thanks!

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1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Anyone know of theories/breakdowns of the ritual MMD was performing in the tent and where I might be able to find them?  Thanks!

There are many, just keep 2 things in mind when reading them.  First of all GRRM has said hatching the dragons was all Dany, and 2nd I once created a thread and posted all the relevant quotes showing that the dragon eggs were not in the tent when she performed her ritual.

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14 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

There are many, just keep 2 things in mind when reading them.  First of all GRRM has said hatching the dragons was all Dany, and 2nd I once created a thread and posted all the relevant quotes showing that the dragon eggs were not in the tent when she performed her ritual.

 

14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Thanks!  Two of the shadows Dany sees are a great wolf (Stark) and a man wreathed in fire.  It's the second one that I'm trying to work out. 

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1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said:

 

Thanks!  Two of the shadows Dany sees are a great wolf (Stark) and a man wreathed in fire.  It's the second one that I'm trying to work out. 

His is the song of ice and fire. Substitute a direwolf in for ice, and you've got a Stark and a Targaryen dancing as a dragon is being born. It's an allusion to Jon Snow, son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, the prince that was promised, whose song is the song of ice and fire. 

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8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

His is the song of ice and fire. Substitute a direwolf in for ice, and you've got a Stark and a Targaryen dancing as a dragon is being born. It's an allusion to Jon Snow, son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, the prince that was promised, whose song is the song of ice and fire. 

That's what I was thinking too.  Thanks!

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Hopefully this is a small question or there is a quick reference somewhere I have not seen.

Who knows Jon is a warg? I can't remember them all.

I know he, himself, barely acknowledges it until about halfway through Dance.

Orell did. Varamyr did. Harma did?

Val possibly. Mel possibly.

Borroq I think yes?

Mance?

What about Bran and Arya and Rickon? I don't think we have had Jon ever mention knowing his siblings being able to warg their wolves.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hopefully this is a small question or there is a quick reference somewhere I have not seen.

Who knows Jon is a warg? I can't remember them all.

I know he, himself, barely acknowledges it until about halfway through Dance.

Orell did. Varamyr did. Harma did?

Val possibly. Mel possibly.

Borroq I think yes?

Mance?

What about Bran and Arya and Rickon? I don't think we have had Jon ever mention knowing his siblings being able to warg their wolves.

There is this scene, and even if you think that's just a Bloodraven inspired vision, isn't there a scene where he's  salivating with Ghost in Dance? And doesn't he have wolf dreams? 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hopefully this is a small question or there is a quick reference somewhere I have not seen.

Who knows Jon is a warg? I can't remember them all.

I know he, himself, barely acknowledges it until about halfway through Dance.

Orell did. Varamyr did. Harma did?

Val possibly. Mel possibly.

Borroq I think yes?

Mance?

What about Bran and Arya and Rickon? I don't think we have had Jon ever mention knowing his siblings being able to warg their wolves.

I would imagine the wildlings in general would suspect him of being a warg since they are more use to that.  Varamyr also said he should have taken Ghost no matter what Mance said, so he asked Mance, so Mance knows and it's possible even likely Tormund was there at the time along with the Weeper and possibly Val and others.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hopefully this is a small question or there is a quick reference somewhere I have not seen.

Who knows Jon is a warg? I can't remember them all.

I know he, himself, barely acknowledges it until about halfway through Dance.

Orell did. Varamyr did. Harma did?

Val possibly. Mel possibly.

Borroq I think yes?

Mance?

What about Bran and Arya and Rickon? I don't think we have had Jon ever mention knowing his siblings being able to warg their wolves.

Qhorin's men.

“Tell me all that you remember, from first to last,” said Qhorin Halfhand.
Jon was confused. “It was only a dream.”
“A wolf dream,” the Halfhand said. “Craster told the Lord Commander that the wildlings were gathering at the source of the Milkwater. That may be why you dreamed it. Or it may be that you saw what waits for us, a few hours farther on. Tell me.”
It made him feel half a fool to talk of such things to Qhorin and the other rangers, but he did as he was commanded. None of the black brothers laughed at him, however. By the time he was done, even Squire Dalbridge was no longer smiling.
“Skinchanger?” said Ebben grimly, looking at the Halfhand. Does he mean the eagle, Jon wondered. Or me? Skinchangers and wargs belonged in Old Nan’s stories, not in the world he had lived in all his life. Yet here, in this strange bleak wilderness of rock and ice, it was not hard to believe.

And the others at Castle Black appear to realise or suspect it too.

Lord Janos was red-faced and quivering. "The beast," he gasped. "Look! The beast that tore the life from Halfhand. A warg walks among us, brothers. AWARG! This . . . this creature is not fit to lead us! This beastling is not fit to live!"

[...]

Marsh hesitated. "Lord Snow, I am not one to bear tales, but there has been talk that you are becoming too … too friendly with Lord Stannis. Some even suggest that you are … a …"

A rebel and a turncloak, aye, and a bastard and a warg as well. Janos Slynt might be gone, but his lies lingered. "I know what they say." Jon had heard the whispers, had seen men turn away when he crossed the yard. "What would they have me do, take up swords against Stannis and the wildlings both? His Grace has thrice the fighting men we do, and is our guest besides. The laws of hospitality protect him. And we owe him and his a debt."

Stannis, possibly.

"Aye. All that, and more. You are a warg too, they say, a skinchanger who walks at night as a wolf." King Stannis had a hard smile. "How much of it is true?"

"I had a direwolf, Ghost. I left him when I climbed the Wall near Greyguard, and have not seen him since. Qhorin Halfhand commanded me to join the wildlings. He knew they would make me kill him to prove myself, and told me to do whatever they asked of me. The woman was named Ygritte. I broke my vows with her, but I swear to you on my father's name that I never turned my cloak."

 

Edit: Multiple of the free folk. Rattleshirt isn't shy about announcing it upon bringing Jon back to Mance, and Jon himself implies that there are multiple of the free folk who have agreed with him.

"The black bastard what gutted Orell," said Rattleshirt, "and a bloody warg as well."

[...]

In the dark, the direwolf's red eyes looked black. He nuzzled at Jon's neck, silent as ever, his breath a hot mist. The wildlings called Jon Snow a warg, but if so he was a poor one.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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