Small Questions v. 10105

[Darion Storm]

I always found the Dothraki tradition of being given bells to hang in their hair a little strange, but I think I’ve stumbled upon GRRM’s real life influence.

I’m sure everyone’s familiar with the (Plains) Native American feather headdress or ‘war bonnets’. It turns out that these were worn by warriors, and each feather symbolised some great victory, much in the same way Dothraki use their bells, the more bells a warrior has the greater his renown, and it was the same with these Native Americans.

[Back in Black-Snow]

On 3/23/2018 at 7:49 AM, Darion Storm said:

I always found the Dothraki tradition of being given bells to hang in their hair a little strange, but I think I’ve stumbled upon GRRM’s real life influence.

I’m sure everyone’s familiar with the (Plains) Native American feather headdress or ‘war bonnets’. It turns out that these were worn by warriors, and each feather symbolised some great victory, much in the same way Dothraki use their bells, the more bells a warrior has the greater his renown, and it was the same with these Native Americans.

I had never made this connection, but I should have since I have some Cherokee ancestry.  Had always likened them to the Mongols.

[Kandrax]

I have question regarding landed knights.

Which title would a heir of a landed knigth have, if he can't be knighted?

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I have question regarding landed knights.

Which title would a heir of a landed knigth have, if he can't be knighted?

None would be my guess.

ETA: unless he earned one for himself down the line, but nothing through his father.

[Kandrax]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

None would be my guess.

ETA: unless he earned one for himself down the line, but nothing through his father.

Thanks. But he would still rule his father's lands?

[kissdbyfire]

51 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Thanks. But he would still rule his father's lands?

Don't thank me just yet, I might be wrong! Still waiting for smarter folks to chime in!

But yeah, I guess he would... 

[HallowedMarcus]

On 24/03/2018 at 7:58 PM, Kandrax said:

Thanks. But he would still rule his father's lands?

    Certainly, he would get his father's land being himself a Knight or not. Some landed Knight who had lots of lands would in some parts of Europe get the knight title. In Westeros he might be called Sir my his servants out of respect but he would not get his father title. Do not forget however that any Knight can Knight a gentleman/man. So any of his father friends could take him as Page and then in time make him a squire and Knight. 

[Loose Bolt]

I think that could son of landed knight keep his father's land depends on opinion of his overlord. After all that overlord has given that land as a payment of service (as heavy cavalryman).

So most overlords would not be happy if someone tries to cheat them or try to keep the land but not serve them as a knight.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Did the Velaryons bend the knee to Joffrey after the Battle of the Blackwater? Have we really heard anything about them since then? 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Did the Velaryons bend the knee to Joffrey after the Battle of the Blackwater? Have we really heard anything about them since then? 

Lord Monford died during the Battle of the Blackwater. His bastard son Aurane Waters surrendered to Joffrey, while his young trueborn son Monterys succeeds Monford as the Lord of the Tides. Monterys continues to support Stannis, and the Velaryon banners are later seen at the Wall when Stannis arrives.

At King's Landing, Aurane rises high in Cersei's new small council, and becomes her master of ships. He proposes the Iron Throne construct new dromonds and suggests the dromonds should be crewed with thieves and poachers. When Margaery is arrested, Aurane suggests placing the new ships in the Backwater Rush, thereby preventing the Redwyne fleet from doing anything, but as soon as Cersei is arrested, Aurane flees with the ships to the sea. Grand Maester Pycelle believes that Aurane is traveling to the Stepstones, to set himself up as a pirate.

A small Winds spoiler

Spoiler

A fan theory suggests that the new pirate king who has set up on Torturer's Deep in the Stepstones is Aurane. The pirate king styles himself the Lord of the Waters, which is believed to be a play on the bastard surname "Waters" and the title of House Velaryon, "Lord of the Tides". 

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Lord Monford died during the Battle of the Blackwater. His bastard son Aurane Waters surrendered to Joffrey, while his young trueborn son Monterys succeeds Monford as the Lord of the Tides. Monterys continues to support Stannis, and the Velaryon banners are later seen at the Wall when Stannis arrives.

At King's Landing, Aurane rises high in Cersei's new small council, and becomes her master of ships. He proposes the Iron Throne construct new dromonds and suggests the dromonds should be crewed with thieves and poachers. When Margaery is arrested, Aurane suggests placing the new ships in the Backwater Rush, thereby preventing the Redwyne fleet from doing anything, but as soon as Cersei is arrested, Aurane flees with the ships to the sea. Grand Maester Pycelle believes that Aurane is traveling to the Stepstones, to set himself up as a pirate.

A small Winds spoiler

  Reveal hidden contents

A fan theory suggests that the new pirate king who has set up on Torturer's Deep in the Stepstones is Aurane. The pirate king styles himself the Lord of the Waters, which is believed to be a play on the bastard surname "Waters" and the title of House Velaryon, "Lord of the Tides". 

 

Thank you. I'm curious as to who Monterys' regent is, and what their reasons are for supporting Stannis after the Blackwater. Hopefully we'll learn more about the Velaryons in TWOW. 

[Lord Varys]

As to the landed knight thing:

One could assume that George really dropped the ball there. We have no reason to assume that there are female equivalents to knights (since then Brienne, say, could have had such a title, and we would other less martially inclined women have such titles) and knights themselves are exclusively male warriors, there is no question about that.

Women are neither male nor warriors, and thus doubly barred from being a knight.

In that sense it is not very likely that a daughter can inherit the lands of a landed knight - at least not in the sense that she can inherit his title/holdings in the same legal context/framework as an heir who also happens to be (able to become) a knight.

If there were female equivalents to landed knights then we should have met them or heard about them at this point - they would hold a title equivalent to the knightly 'Ser'.

That could mean that the lands and holdings of landed knights are exclusively inherited through the male. It might be that the lands revert back to the lord who originally gave them (or to the Crown) when there is no male heir around. Perhaps claims can pass through women (to the son of a daughter or sister, or the knightly husband of a woman) perhaps not.

But the chances are not that good that women can hold such lands in their own right. Title-wise they would have to be ladies, and then there would be no way to differentiate a true ruling lady from a lady who is just a landed knight. If that was how it was done why not just call the landed knights 'lords', too?

Heirs of landed knights - male or female - might still continue to own the land their father/uncle, etc. left them, but not in the capacity of landed knights if they are not landed knights. They would just be wealthy landowners with a somewhat aristocratic background, depending on the status of the family.

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Thank you. I'm curious as to who Monterys' regent is, and what their reasons are for supporting Stannis after the Blackwater. Hopefully we'll learn more about the Velaryons in TWOW. 

I guess it would be Monford's widow. We have no reason to believe the man has any brothers besides his bastard half-brother Aurane. It might be that there is an (unmarried) sister around. Or some cousins. We don't know.

However, I don't think it is a mystery why Driftmark stuck with Stannis after the Blackwater. Lord Monford and many Velaryon men fought and died on the Blackwater, and in ASoS Stannis is still the guy with the fleet, not Joffrey/Tommen. While Stannis still sits on Dragonstone he can strike at Driftmark - as we see when Selyse and Axell try to convince Stannis to punish the Celtigars for their treason.

Whoever rules Driftmark in Lord Monterys' name is smarter than that. Aurane bending the knee to Joffrey throws a bone to the Lannisters while Driftmark itself can pretend they still stand with Stannis as long as that is necessary.

I'd also be interesting to find out more about the present-day Velaryons, but the said thing is that they are likely a completely crippled and irrelevant force at this point, in no small point due to the losses they suffered on the Blackwater.

And Aurane seems to be in the game to aggrandize himself. Cersei thinks he was after Dragonstone - not sure if that was true, could be - but he might simply be after Driftmark. If ends up doing either Aegon or Dany (or Euron) a favor then we might soon see the legitimized Lord Aurane Velaryon rule Driftmark in place of the boy Monterys Velaryon.

[Kandrax]

How many pages do the Princess and the Queen, Rogue Prince and Sons of Dragon have, each?

[Clegane'sPup]

5 hours ago, Kandrax said:

How many pages do the Princess and the Queen, Rogue Prince and Sons of Dragon have, each?

There are a few options available to figure this out.

Someone somewhere has counted the pages.

Buy the three anthology books the stories were published in and count them.

Wait until Fire & Blood v1 is released and count them.

Is there a pub or bar bet on the line?

[Kandrax]

33 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

There are a few options available to figure this out.

Someone somewhere has counted the pages.

Buy the three anthology books the stories were published in and count them.

Wait until Fire & Blood v1 is released and count them.

Is there a pub or bar bet on the line?

I am asking out of curiousity. 

They aren't avaible in my country.

And i hope that Fire & Blood will be avaible.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I am asking out of curiousity. 

They aren't avaible in my country.

And i hope that Fire & Blood will be avaible.

TPatQ is 35,000 words; and it's a novella. TRP is a novelette, so I guess it's shorter than that. And the other is again a novella, so perhaps roughly around the same word count? No idea really, just stuff based on a quick search.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

7 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I am asking out of curiousity. 

They aren't avaible in my country.

And i hope that Fire & Blood will be avaible.

This is an opportunity for me to learn something new.

In your country is there no access to internet online book dealers?

[Kandrax]

3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This is an opportunity for me to learn something new.

In your country is there no access to internet online book dealers?

I don't like buying via internet.

[The Fattest Leech]

I have a really silly question that I should probably know the answer to, but don't.

Why do some posters claim that Edric Dayne was named for Eddard Stark? They both have the nickname, "Ned," but they have two different given names. Even the given names only share "Ed.". Why not name Edric 'Eddard' if the Dayne boy was to be named after the Stark man?

I am sure there is an obvious as hell answer

The closest I could find was this, and it is still just the nickname, not the given proper name:

A Storm of Swords - Arya VI

Clegane's mouth twitched. "My innocence against your breastplate, is that the way of it?"

"Ned, help me remove my breastplate."

Arya got goosebumps when Lord Beric said her father's name, but this Ned was only a boy, a fair-haired squire no more than ten or twelve. He stepped up quickly to undo the clasps that fastened the battered steel about the Marcher lord. The quilting beneath was rotten with age and sweat, and fell away when the metal was pulled loose. Gendry sucked in his breath. "Mother have mercy."

[Lollygag]

23 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have a really silly question that I should probably know the answer to, but don't.

Why do some posters claim that Edric Dayne was named for Eddard Stark? They both have the nickname, "Ned," but they have two different given names. Even the given names only share "Ed.". Why not name Edric 'Eddard' if the Dayne boy was to be named after the Stark man?

I am sure there is an obvious as hell answer

The closest I could find was this, and it is still just the nickname, not the given proper name:

A Storm of Swords - Arya VI

Clegane's mouth twitched. "My innocence against your breastplate, is that the way of it?"

"Ned, help me remove my breastplate."

Arya got goosebumps when Lord Beric said her father's name, but this Ned was only a boy, a fair-haired squire no more than ten or twelve. He stepped up quickly to undo the clasps that fastened the battered steel about the Marcher lord. The quilting beneath was rotten with age and sweat, and fell away when the metal was pulled loose. Gendry sucked in his breath. "Mother have mercy."

 

Edric being named for Eddard works for me because it’s the same pattern as Robb for Robert Baratheon, Rickon for Rickard, Lyanna for Lyarra/Lyanne/Lysarra, Eddard’s grandfather on Rickard’s side was Edwyle…

The only Dayne name close to Edric is Ulrick Dayne, a Sword of the Morning mentioned in The Sworn Sword. Robert’s acknowledged bastard is also named Edric and Eddard is his bff. I'm not finding anything close to Edric in the Baratheon or the Florent lines.