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Small Questions v. 10105


Rhaenys_Targaryen

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I'm a show viewer and I apologise for this intrusion in this section of the board, my question may be silly, if it is then I'm really sorry but I need some help for book readers :

I keep seeing some people in the show section talking about redemption, redemption this, redemption that, "this one can't die without his redemption", "that one died without redemption", is redemption really a central theme in the books or it's a overblown aspect by some?

thank you very much in advance for your help

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Just now, Future Null Infinity said:

I'm a show viewer and I apologise for this intrusion in this section of the board, my question may be silly but I need some help for some book readers :

I keep seeing some people in the show section talking about redemption, redemption this, redemption that, "this one can't die without his redemption", "that one died without redemption", is redemption really a central theme in the books or it's a overblown aspect by some?

thank you very much in advance for your help

A big background theme for several characters. I guess specially for Jamie and Sandor Clegane.

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Is there something beside this paragraph to suggest Ice replaced another ancestral blade, and what type of sword it was? 

Quote

She could see the rippling deep within the steel, where the metal had been folded back on itself a hundred times in the forging. Catelyn had no love for swords, but she could not deny that Ice had its own beauty. It had been forged in Valyria, before the Doom had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged. The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North.

Catelyn I, Game 2

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24 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

If Bittersteel, Daemon, and Bloodraven were all legitimized, why did none of them take the Targaryen name?

Perhaps they were already so well known by their established names, there was no point in taking the name Targaryen. 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps they were already so well known by their established names, there was no point in taking the name Targaryen. 

I can see that with Daemon, you know since he created House Blackfyre. I guess Bittersteel and Bloodraven couldn't stand having the last name...

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4 hours ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

If Bittersteel, Daemon, and Bloodraven were all legitimized, why did none of them take the Targaryen name?

Daemon already had taken the name Blackfyre. Brynden might have chosen to keep Rivera out of respect for his trueborn family, while Aegor might have chosen not to do so because he did not want to be associated with House Targaryen. Remember that Aegon IV had killed Aegor's grandfather and aunt.

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On 01/09/2016 at 5:41 PM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Because otherwise, why did one set of First Men develop a feudal system and the other didn't? Did the concept get introduced by the Andals instead?

I think it might be because the natural resources north of the Wall are too scarce to support large scale civilisation such as a feudal society (except in certain locations, such as Thenn and Hardhome), and so instead a region sparsely populated by lots of independent small fixed settlements and nomadic tribes developed.

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I was browsing the wiki and noticed that in the North, Blackwood is listed as an exiled house. I clicked the link and it took me to the House Blackwood of Raventree Hall page.

I did a little more looking and discovered that according to the world book, the Blackwoods were exiled by the King in the North. Anyone have an understanding of why?

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I thought I would try this out here before giving it it's own thread. It might just be me reading too far into the story.

In A Dance With Dragons, when the Ironfleet finds Moqorro, something weird happens.

When Moqorro goes into Victarion's cabin to heal him, the POV leaves Victarion. It goes to a general POV around the ship. Am I reading too far into this? Or do you think this means anything?

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38 minutes ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said:

I was browsing the wiki and noticed that in the North, Blackwood is listed as an exiled house. I clicked the link and it took me to the House Blackwood of Raventree Hall page.

I did a little more looking and discovered that according to the world book, the Blackwoods were exiled by the King in the North. Anyone have an understanding of why?

I couldn't find anything about them being exiled, all I could find was a passage pertaining to them being reduced from Royals to vassals.

Eta: Although it does say that they were driven from their lands in the wolfswood.

The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Kings of Winter

Even this did not give Winterfell dominion over all the North. Many other petty kings remained, ruling over realms great and small, and it would require thousands of years and many more wars before the last of them was conquered. Yet one by one, the Starks subdued them all, and during these struggles, many proud houses and ancient lines were extinguished forever.
Amongst the houses reduced from royals to vassals we can count the Flints of Breakstone Hill, the Slates of Blackpool, the Umbers of Last Hearth, the Lockes of Oldcastle, the Glovers of Deepwood Motte, the Fishers of the Stony Shore, the Ryders of the Rills...and mayhaps even the Blackwoods of Raventree, whose own family traditions insist they once ruled most of the wolfswood before being driven from their lands by the Kings of Winter (certain runic records support this claim, if Maester Barneby's translations can be trusted).
 
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37 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I thought I would try this out here before giving it it's own thread. It might just be me reading too far into the story.

In A Dance With Dragons, when the Ironfleet finds Moqorro, something weird happens.

When Moqorro goes into Victarion's cabin to heal him, the POV leaves Victarion. It goes to a general POV around the ship. Am I reading too far into this? Or do you think this means anything?

I know what you mean. The way I square it in my mind is that Vcitation was thinking back on reports. 

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On September 1, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is there something beside this paragraph to suggest Ice replaced another ancestral blade, and what type of sword it was? 

Catelyn I, Game 2

I've wondered that myself since it seems to pop up in threads about Dawn and Lightbringer so often. Just seems like a particularly unbuoyant straw to be floating a theory upon. 

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On September 1, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

I keep seeing some people in the show section talking about redemption, redemption this, redemption that, "this one can't die without his redemption", "that one died without redemption", is redemption really a central theme in the books or it's a overblown aspect by some?

thank you very much in advance for your help

It could be due to the presence of dynamic characters that grow and change and mature, see the errors of their ways or become corrupted by greed or the need for vengeance.  

Personally I think some of it is due to the fact that characters aren't your traditional fantasy-trope black or white.  Completely dirty rotten bastards (the figurative kind) can rape and reave for a dozen chapters but throw one chapter into the mix where they save a kid with a kitten from some other rotten bastard and all of a sudden you have a character that is going to be redeemed.  

Terrible people can do good things, just as good people can do terrible things.  

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7 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I thought I would try this out here before giving it it's own thread. It might just be me reading too far into the story.

In A Dance With Dragons, when the Ironfleet finds Moqorro, something weird happens.

When Moqorro goes into Victarion's cabin to heal him, the POV leaves Victarion. It goes to a general POV around the ship. Am I reading too far into this? Or do you think this means anything?

Some people think it's because he actually dies there.

Most likely it's that GRRM wanted to keep the magical bullshit mysterious. But that's not incompatible with any other theory.

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8 hours ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said:

I was browsing the wiki and noticed that in the North, Blackwood is listed as an exiled house. I clicked the link and it took me to the House Blackwood of Raventree Hall page.

I did a little more looking and discovered that according to the world book, the Blackwoods were exiled by the King in the North. Anyone have an understanding of why?

The Blackwoods were exiled from the North by the Kings of Winter thousands of years ago. They were exiled to the Riverlnads were they were kings for a time. They used to rule the Wolfswood.

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20 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Some people think it's because he actually dies there.

Most likely it's that GRRM wanted to keep the magical bullshit mysterious. But that's not incompatible with any other theory.

Wow. I thought I was the first to notice that. Should have known better. 

Keeping the magic stuff mysterious seems the most likely. But, I dunno...

I watched an interview with GRRM the other day and he actually talked about his style of POV, and it kinda reinforced my suspicions about that scene...

I dunno..

I dunno...

Undecided.

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