Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10105

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42 minutes ago, Oakhearts head said:

Are the Northern mountain clansmen literate? Specifically the Wull, Liddle, Flint and Norrey clans. Would the Citadel send maesters that far North? 

Are the maesters the only ones to teach reading?

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Now, this is a stupid question, and probably already many times asked... But where is Bran at the King's welcome feast?

I just started a reread and this jumped at me. I turned the pages back and forth, clawed at the pages to make sure I hadn't skipped one. Read and reread, to make sure I hadn't  missed something... Maybe it's just an authorial slip and doesn't mean anything.

We see the feast through Jon's eyes (Jon I, AGoT). He describes how the high lords enter the hall, after he's been seated well below the salt. (We RLJ theorists know why - Ned wanted to keep him out of Bobby B's sight.)

Jon describes the entrance of the high lords and trueborn. Firsr Ned+Cersei, then Cat+Bobby B. Then Rickon, "with all the dignity of a three year old". Jon even has to usher him on when he sees his brother. Then we get a cynical description of Robb+Myrcella, Sansa (radiant) + Joffrey, Arya+Tommen, Then the queen's brothers, the Kingslayer and the Imp. Uncle Benjen and Theon Greyjoy bring up the rear.

Now, stupid question. Where is Bran?

I'm sure many people before me have noticed this. Any explanations? Any crackpot theories?

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1 hour ago, talvikorppi said:

Now, this is a stupid question, and probably already many times asked... But where is Bran at the King's welcome feast?

I just started a reread and this jumped at me. I turned the pages back and forth, clawed at the pages to make sure I hadn't skipped one. Read and reread, to make sure I hadn't  missed something... Maybe it's just an authorial slip and doesn't mean anything.

We see the feast through Jon's eyes (Jon I, AGoT). He describes how the high lords enter the hall, after he's been seated well below the salt. (We RLJ theorists know why - Ned wanted to keep him out of Bobby B's sight.)

Jon describes the entrance of the high lords and trueborn. Firsr Ned+Cersei, then Cat+Bobby B. Then Rickon, "with all the dignity of a three year old". Jon even has to usher him on when he sees his brother. Then we get a cynical description of Robb+Myrcella, Sansa (radiant) + Joffrey, Arya+Tommen, Then the queen's brothers, the Kingslayer and the Imp. Uncle Benjen and Theon Greyjoy bring up the rear.

Now, stupid question. Where is Bran?

I'm sure many people before me have noticed this. Any explanations? Any crackpot theories?

He's there, but Jon simply doesn't mention him. Bran recalls having been at the feast in ACOK

I want to be a knight. Bran took another sip of the spiced honey wine from his father's goblet, grateful for something to clutch. The lifelike head of a snarling direwolf was raised on the side of the cup. He felt the silver muzzle pressing against his palm, and remembered the last time he had seen his lord father drink from this goblet.

It had been the night of the welcoming feast, when King Robert had brought his court to Winterfell. Summer still reigned then. His parents had shared the dais with Robert and his queen, with her brothers beside her. Uncle Benjen had been there too, all in black. Bran and his brothers and sisters sat with the king's children, Joffrey and Tommen and Princess Myrcella, who'd spent the whole meal gazing at Robb with adoring eyes. Arya made faces across the table when no one was looking; Sansa listened raptly while the king's high harper sang songs of chivalry, and Rickon kept asking why Jon wasn't with them. "Because he's a bastard," Bran finally had to whisper to him.

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2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

He's there, but Jon simply doesn't mention him. Bran recalls having been at the feast in ACOK

I want to be a knight. Bran took another sip of the spiced honey wine from his father's goblet, grateful for something to clutch. The lifelike head of a snarling direwolf was raised on the side of the cup. He felt the silver muzzle pressing against his palm, and remembered the last time he had seen his lord father drink from this goblet.

It had been the night of the welcoming feast, when King Robert had brought his court to Winterfell. Summer still reigned then. His parents had shared the dais with Robert and his queen, with her brothers beside her. Uncle Benjen had been there too, all in black. Bran and his brothers and sisters sat with the king's children, Joffrey and Tommen and Princess Myrcella, who'd spent the whole meal gazing at Robb with adoring eyes. Arya made faces across the table when no one was looking; Sansa listened raptly while the king's high harper sang songs of chivalry, and Rickon kept asking why Jon wasn't with them. "Because he's a bastard," Bran finally had to whisper to him.

Yes, I never imagined Bran wasn't there.

My point is that it's odd that Jon, who describes everybody in the procession in some detail, never mentions Bran, a little brother he's presumably close with (cf. the first Bran chapter, Jon (not Robb) looking after him during the execution, Jon being more thoughtful as regards the direwolves etc.)

I'm not saying this means anything much, I'm inclined to put it down to a slip of the author more than anything. It's just an odd little detail. I was wondering if there was a SSM or something about this.

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1 hour ago, talvikorppi said:

Yes, I never imagined Bran wasn't there.

My point is that it's odd that Jon, who describes everybody in the procession in some detail, never mentions Bran, a little brother he's presumably close with (cf. the first Bran chapter, Jon (not Robb) looking after him during the execution, Jon being more thoughtful as regards the direwolves etc.)

I'm not saying this means anything much, I'm inclined to put it down to a slip of the author more than anything. It's just an odd little detail. I was wondering if there was a SSM or something about this.

There actually is an SSM:

BRAN MISSING FROM FEAST

[Summary: In a response to Arion214 asking why Bran did not appear at the feast in Winterfell early in _A Game of Thrones_.]

Pam, thanks for your post, and all the kind words about A GAME OF THRONES and "The Hedge Knight."

As to your question about Bran... well, he =is= present at the banquet, of course. Jon doesn't mention him, that's true, but of course there are hundreds of others who are present as well that Jon also fails to mention... and Bran is an everyday familiar sight to Jon, who is likely more curious about the guests... the king and queen, their children, the Lion and the Imp.

That's one explanation, anyway.

The other one is that the author just slipped up and neglected to mention him.

But either way, he =was= there, definitely. There's even a moment in A CLASH OF KINGS when he thinks back on that feast.

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21 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

There actually is an SSM:

BRAN MISSING FROM FEAST

[Summary: In a response to Arion214 asking why Bran did not appear at the feast in Winterfell early in _A Game of Thrones_.]

Pam, thanks for your post, and all the kind words about A GAME OF THRONES and "The Hedge Knight."

As to your question about Bran... well, he =is= present at the banquet, of course. Jon doesn't mention him, that's true, but of course there are hundreds of others who are present as well that Jon also fails to mention... and Bran is an everyday familiar sight to Jon, who is likely more curious about the guests... the king and queen, their children, the Lion and the Imp.

That's one explanation, anyway.

The other one is that the author just slipped up and neglected to mention him.

But either way, he =was= there, definitely. There's even a moment in A CLASH OF KINGS when he thinks back on that feast.

Hey, Rhaenys, thank you for finding the SSM for me. Much appreciated.

So... despite all that authorial waffle, it is a slip. Fine. I can live with that. In fact, I like it that way. Better than people growing all kinds of crackpots about this.

Once again, thank you, Rhaenys, you've been very helpful. We can now consider this topic closed.

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4 hours ago, talvikorppi said:

Hey, Rhaenys, thank you for finding the SSM for me. Much appreciated.

So... despite all that authorial waffle, it is a slip. Fine. I can live with that. In fact, I like it that way. Better than people growing all kinds of crackpots about this.

Once again, thank you, Rhaenys, you've been very helpful. We can now consider this topic closed.

Pah! I say pah!

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Does anyone else think Littlefinger is secretly of Crannogmen stock? He's short, has the grey/green eyes, is very clever with words. 

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1. Who is heir of house Dustin?

2. What are words of house Dustin?

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2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

1. Who is heir of house Dustin?

2. What are words of house Dustin?

1. Whoever Lady Barbrey designates, which is unknown at this point

2. We haven't been told.

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1 hour ago, KingMance said:

1. Whoever Lady Barbrey designates, which is unknown at this point

2. We haven't been told.

She would likely have a say, but if Barbrey were to die suddenly, Barrow Hall and it's lands and incomes would be decided by Roose Bolton, to whom House Dustin is sworn. And it is possible that the King might even assert his preference in an estate of such importance. 

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“It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him. He must be, what, five by now?” “Prince Tommen is seven,” she told him. “The same age as Bran. Please, Ned, guard your tongue. The Lannister woman is our queen, and her pride is said to grow with every passing year.” 

-Catelyn, GOT 

OK so Ned saw Tommen 6-7 years ago. In Ned's chapter when Robert arrives, he says he last saw King Bob 9 years past during the Greyjoy Rebellion. So what's up?

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On 4/6/2017 at 1:19 AM, cgrav said:

Does anyone else think Littlefinger is secretly of Crannogmen stock? He's short, has the grey/green eyes, is very clever with words. 

Interesting notion, first time I've heard Crannogman as the background for Baelish. A few things though. The only other person with grey-green eyes is Aurane Waters, a bastard Velaryon. Also I don't remember being clever with words a Crannogman trait.

Sneaky yes but most of it comes from the Frey's and their all racists anyway.

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10 hours ago, KingMance said:

“It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him. He must be, what, five by now?” “Prince Tommen is seven,” she told him. “The same age as Bran. Please, Ned, guard your tongue. The Lannister woman is our queen, and her pride is said to grow with every passing year.” 

-Catelyn, GOT 

OK so Ned saw Tommen 6-7 years ago. In Ned's chapter when Robert arrives, he says he last saw King Bob 9 years past during the Greyjoy Rebellion. So what's up?

Possibly, Ned once encountered Cersei without Robert present. Perhaps on the road, with her travelling to Casterly Rock with her children but without Robert, while Ned was going to Riverrun. At least, that  is the common interpretation. 

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9 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Interesting notion, first time I've heard Crannogman as the background for Baelish. A few things though. The only other person with grey-green eyes is Aurane Waters, a bastard Velaryon. Also I don't remember being clever with words a Crannogman trait.

Sneaky yes but most of it comes from the Frey's and their all racists anyway.

"They're all racists anyway." :o

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What other languages does Jorah know? (besides Westerosi common tongue and some Dothraki)

How fluent and proficient would you say he is in each?

If I remember correctly, he has been in Essos for about 16-17 years?

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

What other languages does Jorah know? (besides Westerosi common tongue and some Dothraki)

How fluent and proficient would you say he is in each?

If I remember correctly, he has been in Essos for about 16-17 years?

He's been in Essos since 293 AC. Besides the Common Tongue and Dothraki (in which he is quite fluent), he also speaks some Volantenese. I suppose he is also likely to speak the other bastard Valyrian dialects, or at least from those Free Cities he visited for a longer period of time. He might also speak some Ghiscari, though IIRC he has not been seen on page speaking in that tongue.

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17 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

He's been in Essos since 293 AC. Besides the Common Tongue and Dothraki (in which he is quite fluent), he also speaks some Volantenese. I suppose he is also likely to speak the other bastard Valyrian dialects, or at least from those Free Cities he visited for a longer period of time. He might also speak some Ghiscari, though IIRC he has not been seen on page speaking in that tongue.

Wow. That is not nearly as long as I thought. 

Thanks for all of the info. 

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On 6/4/2017 at 7:38 PM, KingMance said:

1. Whoever Lady Barbrey designates, which is unknown at this point

I am not sure that line of succession works like that.

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On 6-4-2017 at 7:54 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:
On 6-4-2017 at 6:38 PM, KingMance said:

1. Whoever Lady Barbrey designates, which is unknown at this point

2. We haven't been told.

She would likely have a say, but if Barbrey were to die suddenly, Barrow Hall and it's lands and incomes would be decided by Roose Bolton, to whom House Dustin is sworn. And it is possible that the King might even assert his preference in an estate of such importance. 

Exactly. Barbrey is likely to be allowed to suggest her own heir, but her liege can overrule that decision. Whether in this case (ADWD onwards) that means the Iron Thorne (the king) or House Bolton (Wardens of the North) is not clear, but when Robb was the King in the North, it was Robb who would have ultimately decided who Lady Hornwood's heir would have been, likely in in agreement with Lady Hornwood.

When the ruling lord/lady dies and there is no clear heir, parties can present their claims to the King, as we see in ADWD regarding the Rosby lands.

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