Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 If Robb survived the war he would had been the King in the North and Riverlands, which castle do you think that he would used as his seat. Do you think that he would had kept Winterfell or do you think that he would had given it to one of his siblings, like what Robert did, when he would had been in his new capital? Myself, I would like him to had at least seen him tried to use Moat Cailin, I don’t know if it is possible, when he would had given Winterfell to Bran or Rickon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 He will rule in WF in the winter and in RR in the summer. WF and Kingdom goes to his son, RR to Edmures kid, but Starks may continue to use it as some sort of capital. Moat Caillin needs A LOT repairing and it would not be a priority at least for 10,15 years, after that maybe, it is smart because it is fortified and in center of his Kingdom. This is scenario where Robb wins war and independence and Lodng night isnt coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I don't think he would have ruled from Moat Caitlin. It's too inconvenient for both Kingdoms. Also if the Riverlands are his domain having a defensive barrier between the two is less necessary. I think he would have kept Winterfell as his seat. I agree with Dariopatke that in Winter he would settle his court in at Winterfell (it is a cosy castle, things are quieter and he can't be seen to be running from the winter). During summer I imagine he'd leave Winterfell's care to a Castellan and one of his brothers. He would probably make journeys in this time. Stay in White Harbour for a while, visit Riverrun, visit his allies in the Vale (necessary really for any long term stability). Edmure would still command the Riverlands, but the Blackfish might act as Robb's Marshal/Hand equivalent. And in Winter stay in the Riverlands to ensure his realm is guarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodofthedragon1995 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The Stark's have no seat but Winterfell! To quote Littlefinger "when you starks travel south you melt". Robb or any of the stark's would never be comfortable in the Riverlands long term. The north would never be ruled by a king living in the south either...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Also depending on what borders got drawn up Edmure and Robb would probably have Harrenhal revert to them. This could be a foreward base/summer castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Winterfell or possibly Moat Cailin. There is no easier way for him to lose the support of the Riverlords than being too hands on with their seats of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think its better if his seat was in the Riverlands. That way he could personally be there to defend the southern half of his kingdom and so long as he was present could compel his Southern lords to send food to the North whenever winter comes. Personally I think he he were to go that route he should build a new castle. Or he could rebuild Oldstones which was the seat of House Mudd who were the first kings of Rivers and Hills if he wants to be symbolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Kaibaman said: I think its better if his seat was in the Riverlands. That way he could personally be there to defend the southern half of his kingdom and so long as he was present could compel his Southern lords to send food to the North whenever winter comes. Personally I think he he were to go that route he should build a new castle. Or he could rebuild Oldstones which was the seat of House Mudd who were the first kings of Rivers and Hills if he wants to be symbolic. He runs the risk of alienating his Northern bannermen by spending all his time south. War is going to grind to a halt in Winter though, so it's a good time to head North. Also if the Blackfish or someone is left behind they can organise a defense while he comes south with reinforcement.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 3 hours ago, bloodofthedragon1995 said: The Stark's have no seat but Winterfell! To quote Littlefinger "when you starks travel south you melt". Robb or any of the stark's would never be comfortable in the Riverlands long term. The north would never be ruled by a king living in the south either...! Robert Baratheon would be surprised to hear this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 26 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said: He runs the risk of alienating his Northern bannermen by spending all his time south. War is going to grind to a halt in Winter though, so it's a good time to head North. Also if the Blackfish or someone is left behind they can organise a defense while he comes south with reinforcement.s I don't know about alienating his Northern bannermen. James I having rule Scotland for 20 years took up residence in London after he was crowned King of England. He and his heirs spent more time in England than they did in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I can´t think of one example where any house moved their family seat, unless they were forced to like the Manderleys. WF is not just a castle, it´s a symbol of the north and the starks were kings of winter for millennia . The idea of moving his capital wouldn´t even occur to robb, or any stark for that matter. Westeros isn´t europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 What is the scenario in question here? Robb is KOTN&R, and the other kingdoms are independent? I don't see a united 7 kingdoms having 1 man in charge of 2 regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Kaibaman said: I don't know about alienating his Northern bannermen. James I having rule Scotland for 20 years took up residence in London after he was crowned King of England. He and his heirs spent more time in England than they did in Scotland. I have no idea how to properly work the math out. Smarter men than I have. FreeNorthman would talk about the length of the wall and the distance from Deepwood Motte to Winterfall. But Westeros is huge. Britain not very much so. It's like Winterfell would be the border of US and Canada. Riverrun the Border with Mexico. A huge distance to control. Scotland's population was a lot smaller compared to Englands as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said: It's like Winterfell would be the border of US and Canada. Riverrun the Border with Mexico. A huge distance to control. Scotland's population was a lot smaller compared to Englands as well. The same is true with the North and the South. The Riverlands in good times are especially very populated. If Robb stays in the Riverlands then its resources will be at the North's disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 36 minutes ago, Kaibaman said: The same is true with the North and the South. The Riverlands in good times are especially very populated. If Robb stays in the Riverlands then its resources will be at the North's disposal. I'm not sure. The North certainly has a much small population to area ratio. I remember again some measurements Free Northman Reborn did which seemed sound and it was suggest 6million for the North and 6 million for the Riverlands. Even if we went with the riverlands having more, it's that scale creeping in. Scotland only had ~800,000 people in it when Jame was King. England having some 4million. And vice versa with the North. But I hey it's probably not an issue in Robb's generation. It could be for his heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 11 hours ago, bloodofthedragon1995 said: The Stark's have no seat but Winterfell! To quote Littlefinger "when you starks travel south you melt". Robb or any of the stark's would never be comfortable in the Riverlands long term. The north would never be ruled by a king living in the south either...! Moat Cailin isn't in the South tho. 7 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: What is the scenario in question here? Robb is KOTN&R, and the other kingdoms are independent? I don't see a united 7 kingdoms having 1 man in charge of 2 regions. Robb has the North and Riverlands and the other Kingdoms are united under the IT. 16 hours ago, dariopatke said: He will rule in WF in the winter and in RR in the summer. WF and Kingdom goes to his son, RR to Edmures kid, but Starks may continue to use it as some sort of capital. Moat Caillin needs A LOT repairing and it would not be a priority at least for 10,15 years, after that maybe, it is smart because it is fortified and in center of his Kingdom. This is scenario where Robb wins war and independence and Lodng night isnt coming. That is why I thought about MCailin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Robb's kingdom would never have lasted long enough for this to be an issue. But, this is a hypothetical question so... There is no real alternative aside from using Winterfell. Moat Cailing is not a castle, it is a ruin. 3 towers in the swamps, with a dirt road at best going through it. Robb would have had to repair the castle, but that seems to be impractical, and pointless. Legend says that the First Men built the thing 10,000 years ago, but there is little reason to believe this. The First Men built no such thing anywhere else (think the ringwall of the Fist of the First Men, vs the far more modern Moat Cailing with it's crenelations and high towers...), and the use of basalt in construction is mentioned only three times. In Blackhaven in the south (by the relatively new house of Dondarrion), in White Harbor's New Castle (built ~1,000 before the Conquest), and at Moat Cailin. Now let's run over other stuff that we know about the Neck. We know that the Neck came into Stark control after a Stark KITN killed the last Marsh king and married his daughter. We know that the Freys are a relatively new house, coming into power ~300 years before the Conquest. We also know that the Freys tried to conquesr the Neck while it was still independent, giving us a window of just under 300 years for the last Marsh King to fall on the KITN's sword. So IMHO, Moat Cailin was built by "First Men" in the ~1,000 years after house Manderly came North, do defent against the enemy to the south - Ironmen and Riverlords and yes, the Crannogmen. The castle was built with imported basalt as the Manderlys used at the time, and they would have been the logical choice to lead this massive building project. But just as Robb said to Cat, and as Theon witnessed when sent by Ramsay, the Neck is a shit place to put a castle, and at some point the castle was abandoned due to logistics problems. You can keep a small garrison there if you already have the support of the locals, but it's no place to call a court. When Robb marched south the dirt and mud road that was on paper part of the King's Road had to be lined with planks and logs in order to support his host. Clearly there was no real traffic going on there, and most trade with the south was done via White Harbor. The castle may be in the middle of Robb's kingdom, but only because it's right on the border between two old ones, too far from the center of either to be a viable capital. So Moat Cailing is out, but what about Riverrun, or Harrenhal you ask? Well, Riverrun is Edmure's. It's not Robb's to take. He can be a guest, sure, but it would be a bit crowded, plus summer takes years, Robb would need to move around between several bannermen if he wishes to have a good feel of his realm. If he wants to stay in Riverrun he would be too far from the bulk of his kingdom and old bannermen. Harrenhal is also a no-go. It may have lost it's owner, but that still does not make it Robb's. The castle would go to Edmure, both as overall lord of the Riverlands, and as the closest kin. Even though he has two older sisters, we are still talking about male preferance here. So in the end, Winterfell is pretty much the only realistic option for a capital here, with Robb having to do a very long round of visits between his bannermen if he does not wish for the Riverlords to resent "the absent king", or his Northmen as the Northern king who rules from "some flowery seat in the south". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 How is this even a question? How could his seat be anything but Winterfell? Firstly, Winterfell is his by right, no other castle is. Secondly, he has to rule from Winterfell to reinforce his legitimacy - all the other Kings in the North ruled from Winterfell. I imagine he would hold court at Riverrun when visiting the riverlands, though. After all, this is what he does during the Wot5K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, RainGhost said: How is this even a question? How could his seat be anything but Winterfell? Ιt's a question because Robert has already done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Why the hell would any king use Moat Cailin, a half-destroyed fortification in the middle of swamp, without any town or even a village there, for his capital? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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