bloodofthedragon1995 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 When telling Daenerys about his marriage to Lynesse, Jorah says there is nothing he wouldn't do to have kept her happy and made their marriage work. We know that he resorted to selling slaves (which is absolutely illegal in Westeros). Ned found out and Jorah fled to the free cities, escaping punishment. From this, we can deduce that at this time at the very least his character was devoid of honour and was willing to do anything to stay alive. Why then, did Jorah not sell Longclaw? Sure, it was a precious family heirloom, but it seems a bit out of character for Jorah not to sell it. After all Valyrian steel is so rare, he would have been able to sell it in Westeros or the free cities. Resorting to slavery seems so extreme and drastic when he could have had the opportunity to sell Longclaw. He could have sold it to the Lannisters for a large sum. It can be argued that Jorahs 'honour' prevented him from not selling Longclaw, but at this point in time, he didnt really have any, he'd sunk to the lows of the lows and was willing to engage in the slave trade, escape and ruin his house's reputation and leave Bear Island in dire financial state. It seems more logical that Jorah would have sold Longclaw. After all, he was so desperate to stay married to Lynesse, there seems to be no low he wouldn't sink to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Valyrian steel is invaluable. It is not even honor, it is just how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 AGoT, Jon IX When Jon did not appear to fetch the Old Bear's breakfast from the kitchen, they'd look in his cell and find Longclaw on the bed. It had been hard to abandon it, but Jon was not so lost to honor as to take it with him. Even Jorah Mormont had not done that, when he fled in disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregg22 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Or the sword isn't Longclaw at all, there never was a Longclaw, and its some other ancestral sword meant for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Breaking the law is one thing, betraying your family is something completely different. He does want to go home and potentially could with a pardon. Not everybody is ned stark, chances are his people wouldn´t even care too much about some enslaved poachers, but could they ever forgive him if he sold their ancestral family blade? Propably not. There´s no coming back from that, Jorah might have been lovesick and irrational, but he´s not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Breaking the law is one thing, betraying your family is something completely different. He does want to go home and potentially could with a pardon. Not everybody is ned stark, chances are his people wouldn´t even care too much about some enslaved poachers, but could they ever forgive him if he sold their ancestral family blade? Propably not. There´s no coming back from that, Jorah might have been lovesick and irrational, but he´s not stupid. Pretty much this. Jorah is no Ned Stark but he has honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 It's morally worse to sell people than a sword, but honor and morality don't always align. For example, think of the KG guarding Aerys while he savagely raped his wife. Selling LC would be a huge dishonor for jorahs house and family. Selling the poachers and running from justice only was a personal dishonor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 20 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said: It's morally worse to sell people than a sword, but honor and morality don't always align. For example, think of the KG guarding Aerys while he savagely raped his wife. Selling LC would be a huge dishonor for jorahs house and family. Selling the poachers and running from justice only was a personal dishonor. Yep in the season 4 history and lore section where Jorah narrated about Valyrian Steel, he pointed out that he treasured his family's sword so much that he'd sell poachers into slavery but still couldn't bring himself to sell Longclaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Its not just a family heirloom, its basically priceless and as others have said Jorah isn't entirely without honor. Could have made fortune by selling it to Tywin Lannister though. 3 hours ago, gregg22 said: Or the sword isn't Longclaw at all, there never was a Longclaw, and its some other ancestral sword meant for Jon. Quote "It is," the Old Bear told him. "It was my father's sword, and his father's before him. The Mormonts have carried it for five centuries. I wielded it in my day and passed it on to my son when I took the black." So the Mormonts have been lying about it for 500 years? So what is it? Darksister? Blackfyre? Lighbringer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Lord Wraith said: Its not just a family heirloom, its basically priceless and as others have said Jorah isn't entirely without honor. Could have made fortune by selling it to Tywin Lannister though. So the Mormonts have been lying about it for 500 years? So what is it? Darksister? Blackfyre? Lighbringer? He's arguing Blackfyre because someone edited the wiki to say Blackfyre is a bastard sword even tho that is not in any text because someone said Longclaw was Blackfyre. Whether or not it was the same person and who it/they were I cannot say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The very simple answer is that when someone says they would do anything, it doesn't actually mean anything. When I say I'd do anything to bang Scarlet Johansen, I don't actually mean I'd kill my own family, so obviously I'm exagerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 30 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: He's arguing Blackfyre because someone edited the wiki to say Blackfyre is a bastard sword even tho that is not in any text because someone said Longclaw was Blackfyre. Whether or not it was the same person and who it/they were I cannot say. Yea it makes no sense. Besides Illyrio clearly has/had Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I like to think, Jorah left in a hurry, and he didn't want anyone to know he was leaving. He certainly would not have tried to sell it to the Lannisters, but only because a)Lord Tywin would more likely throw him in the dungeon and send off a raven to Eddard, or b )even give Longclaw to Illyn Payne, to use on Jorah's neck. Jorah is an outlaw. Tywin knows that. Everyone in Westeros, everywhere in Westeros, will be able to identify that sword and trace it to him. Even in the free cities, if he tried to sell the sword, it would trace to him. Maybe, like the dragon eggs, Jorah might be able to sell it in Asshai. Which brings us to point two: Jorah is a lousy business man. He really isn't good at selling stuff. He has debtees. They, in all probability, are good at selling stuff. Not in so much hurry to sell stuff. They would probably take it off him and get a good price for it, leaving Jorah penniless and swordless. I agree with the devoid of honour assessment, too. Even though Jorah is clever enough to have foreseen such consequences, he is too selfish and greedy and opportunistic not to take the sword. It seems he had time to pack the songs and histories of Westeros, that he gave to Daenarys as a wedding present. (or maybe they were Lynesse's books. and all that she left behind.) My explanation is that good, honourable, practical Maege Mormont saw the writing on the wall. She knew what her nephew was like. She hid Longclaw before he started packing to go (or maybe took it out of the packing without him knowing). He couldn't risk still being there when Eddard Stark turned up, so left without it. Then, Maege lays it symbolically on Jorah's bed for a minute, so she is not lying in the message she sends with it to the Wall, when she claims Jorah left it behind. She knew anything else would break her brother's heart otherwise. So honour kept it behind, but not Jorah's honour. Of course, once he is in the disputed lands, if he talks of it at all, Jorah would say he left it because it was the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Yet the Old Bear gives it away to Jon... I suppose Jon would return it to the Mormonts or make it the sword of the LC, but still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 7 hours ago, bloodofthedragon1995 said: Resorting to slavery seems so extreme and drastic when he could have had the opportunity to sell Longclaw. He could have sold it to the Lannisters for a large sum. At the time he was selling poachers he was doing it to make his home more impressive for Lynesse, hiring singers and buying jewelry and other baubles. Longclaw is such a bauble, its a valuable item that makes the Mormonts seem important. Continuing to own the sword would have worked better to keep his wife happy than treating his peasants properly, so slaving was the option that better suited his goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 8 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Its not just a family heirloom, its basically priceless and as others have said Jorah isn't entirely without honor. Could have made fortune by selling it to Tywin Lannister though. So the Mormonts have been lying about it for 500 years? So what is it? Darksister? Blackfyre? Lighbringer? Eh, I never thought Jeor's explanation of Longclaw's origins added up. First it was convenient that the sword was damaged in a fire, and all it's identifying marks had to be reworked, this time in Jon's likeness. Second, neither Jorah nor any of the Mormont women ever mentioned the sword. Even when Dany offered Jorah a Valyrian sword he said nothing about this sword. Finally, if this sword was so important to the Mormont family that Jorah, at his slaving worst, left it behind rather than take it into exile, why did both Marge and Jeor send it to a place where it had no future for the family? The time when Jorah supposedly had the sword was when Jorah was desperate for money and Tywin was offering a fortune for a Valyrian steel sword. I could believe that Jorah would be willing to shame his own honor for love, but not the family's, but then why did Jeor take this heirloom that had been passed down for generations to the Wall where it had no future? Certainly there were no male descendants of age at the time, but as has been established time and again the Mormonts have no problem with women learning to fight. Even if it was some silly "men only" thing, it's not as if they couldn't keep it until one of Alysane's sons grows up. I could see Jon doing the decent thing and returning it to Jorah if they ever met. I could also see Jorah not having a clue what Jon is talking about and why he's trying to give him this sword. I'm uncertain as to the sword's true identity. Dark Sister was possibly at Castle Black given it was Bloodraven's but by Longclaw's description it clearly isn't this sword. Blackfyre is another possibility that would make sense. Perhaps Bloodraven somehow managed to recover Blackfyre at Redgrass Field despite Bittersteel's claims. That would explain why Bittersteel never passed it along to any of the other Blackfyre pretenders. Certainly if Jeor had Blackfyre the whole time it's conceivable that his raven put him up to it with repeated suggestions since it's fairly obvious that Bloodraven's nudging things along there. Especially after all identifying marks had been destroyed in the wight fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Jorah didn't sell it because it was his family's, and he hoped to return to his family one day as lord of Bear Island, which is why he was working for Varys. If he did what he needed to do, he would be pardoned. All that changed when he got a heart boner for the teenage girl with the dragons though. After that he developed delusions of kingship, with his dragon child as his queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 On 28/2/2016 at 11:28 PM, Lord Lannister said: <snip> I like your explanation better than my own. Even if it is Dark Sister, I like the idea of Blackfyre swords being there for the men in Black. Still, Jeor must know it isn't Longclaw. He must be lying about it's origins. I thought he was too honourable. Like father, like son, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Walda said: I like your explanation better than my own. Even if it is Dark Sister, I like the idea of Blackfyre swords being there for the men in Black. Still, Jeor must know it isn't Longclaw. He must be lying about it's origins. I thought he was too honourable. Like father, like son, I guess. Jeor does not need to lie because the sword is Longclaw. Why would he make up this elaborate lie about Longclaw? If he wanted to give Jon a Valyrian Sword he would not need to make up a lie about Longclaw , he could just simply say that there was a Valyrian sword in the armory that was from hundreds of years ago and nobody knows where it came from and he was giving it to Jon for saving his life . Jon Snow being from the North and growing up wanting to be a warrior would know about every Valyrian Sword in the North so Jeor lying about Longclaw makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Apparently, nobody ever in the entire history of Westeros sold a Valyrian sword. A dagger, mayhaps, but never a sword. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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