esilvia2003 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Since Tommen is the younger brother of Joffrey, maybe he is the volanqar (younger brother) that Cersei knows is going to kill her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseStark* Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Probably not, in the same prophecy it is said that Cersei will outlive her children before being killed by the valonqar. So if Tommen is the valonqar he has to live longer than Cersei, which according to the prophecy will not happen. Therefore, it is (in my) eyes quite impossible for Tommen to be the valonqar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, he can and he will be, I've been peddling that idea for years. 19 minutes ago, MoseStark* said: Probably not, in the same prophecy it is said that Cersei will outlive her children before being killed by the valonqar. So if Tommen is the valonqar he has to live longer than Cersei, which according to the prophecy will not happen. Therefore, it is (in my) eyes quite impossible for Tommen to be the valonqar. So, you think it's impossible for Tommen to first die, and then kill someone? I suggest you reread the prologue of the first book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 22 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Yes, he can and he will be, I've been peddling that idea for years. So, you think it's impossible for Tommen to first die, and then kill someone? I suggest you reread the prologue of the first book. If the Others get far enough in to King's Landing that they get Tommen, there will not be anyone left to hold a funeral (gold Shroud) for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime4Brienne Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Just from a purely physical standpoint--Isn't Tommen 8? Even when he gets older strangling someone takes a LOT of strength. Plus I just don't think Tommen has it in him to kill anyone. Although total kudos to the theory, I hadn't heard it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 2 hours ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said: If the Others get far enough in to King's Landing that they get Tommen, there will not be anyone left to hold a funeral (gold Shroud) for him. You must have quoted the wrong person by mistake. I didn't say anything about King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Tommen is too timid to kill his own mother and like @MoseStark said, the prophecy stated that Cersei will outlive all of her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshield Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Ive read the theory that when/if Tommen dies Cersei will commit suicide or die by any other means directly connected to Tommen's death. So you could argue that, based on this point of view, that Tommen or Tommen's death kills Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 1 hour ago, moonshield said: Ive read the theory that when/if Tommen dies Cersei will commit suicide or die by any other means directly connected to Tommen's death. So you could argue that, based on this point of view, that Tommen or Tommen's death kills Cersei. Only Maggy the Frog doesn't do "from some certain point of view", she gives it straight. There will be literal hands, wrapped around literal throat, literally choking Cersei to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I think people possibly look into the Valonqar thing to deeply because we have had so much time on our hands. GRRM probably thinks it's awesome we look at every little brother in the realm from Sandor to Stannis but when he wrote the prophecy he most likely had Jaime or Tyrion in mind and thought himself smart that we would debate between them two. The fact it's been blown way out of proportion further than those two amuses GRRM I would imagine. Of course I'm not ruling out it being someone other than Jaime or Tyrion, just not sure it is if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I like the theory that Tommen dies and Cersei in her grief get Qyburn to heal him like he healed The Mountain into Robert Strong. So Tommen comes back (pet semetery syle) but is no longer the same timid little boy. He will choke his mother then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Lark Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 1 hour ago, RedShirt47 said: I like the theory that Tommen dies and Cersei in her grief get Qyburn to heal him like he healed The Mountain into Robert Strong. So Tommen comes back (pet semetery syle) but is no longer the same timid little boy. He will choke his mother then. Holy Frankentommen, Batman! This would actually kind of break my heart but what a great twist it would be! I could definitely see Cersei's constant contributions to Qyburn's "experiments" coming back to haunt her in a big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwindor Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 15 hours ago, MoseStark* said: Probably not, in the same prophecy it is said that Cersei will outlive her children before being killed by the valonqar. Well, strictly speaking, the prophecy doesn't state explicitly that all three of Cersei's children will die before her. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds." I think maybe there might be some room for different interpretations. An interesting idea. Also note that the previously quoted sentence from the prophecy is immediately followed by the sentence about the valonqar: "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." It's 'the valonqar' here, not 'a valonqar' or 'your valonqar', as if which exactly valonqar should be clear from the context. And Tyrion or Jaime are not present in the context of the prophecy, only Cersei, her future husband, and their children. So maybe it really says "you'll have three children, they'll have golden crowns and golden shrouds, and one of them will strangle you, specifically, the younger brother". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseStark* Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said: I think people possibly look into the Valonqar thing to deeply because we have had so much time on our hands. GRRM probably thinks it's awesome we look at every little brother in the realm from Sandor to Stannis but when he wrote the prophecy he most likely had Jaime or Tyrion in mind and thought himself smart that we would debate between them two. The fact it's been blown way out of proportion further than those two amuses GRRM I would imagine. Of course I'm not ruling out it being someone other than Jaime or Tyrion, just not sure it is if I'm honest. I think this is correct, it would be better for Cersei's storyline if one of her younger brothers kill her. Tommen doesn't have it in him to kill, especially not his mother and definitely not at this age. Even if the books will last for a few more years in story, he wil still be 10/11 and will not have enough strength to strangel someone with his bare hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseFossoway Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 There is a reason that the wording is "wrap his hands around your pale white throat", instead of murder or stab. We already have evidence that wights kill via strangulation (Will). Also, when you look at the prophecy, Maggy never says your valonqar, just "the valonqar". Since Cersei asks a question about her children, Maggy talks about Cersei's children, and then mentions the valonqar, which implies that the valonqar is referring to the youngest brother of Cersei's children, not Cersei's younger brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 15 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: You must have quoted the wrong person by mistake. I didn't say anything about King's Landing. No, but you implied that the Others could bring him back. For them to do that they would need to get to King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 19 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said: No, but you implied that the Others could bring him back. For them to do that they would need to get to King's Landing. Ah. You're assuming that everything and everyone must remain exactly as they are and where they are right now. Considering that first, it would be wildly inconsistent with how the things have been going so far, and second, would make the remaining books kind of pointless and boring, I'm not subscribing to your assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 37 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Ah. You're assuming that everything and everyone must remain exactly as they are and where they are right now. Considering that first, it would be wildly inconsistent with how the things have been going so far, and second, would make the remaining books kind of pointless and boring, I'm not subscribing to your assumptions. How things are going so far? How many times did Joffery leave King's Landing? Cersie (and by extension Tommen) are basically on lockdown at the Red Keep. They have not shown any motivation to leave King's Landing. Plus, the King is going to be heavily guarded anywhere they go. For the Others to get to him, everyone else will have to be dead, so again... no funeral for Cersie to cry at. or for them to put a gold shroud on poor Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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