Is Tysha dead?

[Jon Fossoway]

5 hours ago, Danelle said:

 

The Sailor's wife is frequently mentioned as a possible alias for Tysha, but it is more likely that Gerion is the Lannister she married, not Tyrion.

 

I'm still for the Tysha = Sailor's wife theory. Lanna is exactly 14 years old, which coincides with Tyrion's marriage to Tysha. The Wife is described as having a beautiful face but a rotten heart. In fact, Feast mentions several times that the Wife has some kind of hidden issue (described as sad, with a rotten heart, etc).

Lanna has enough leads of having Lannister blood. She's called Lanna and has golden hair. 

For me, Lanna is Tyrion's daughter, the Wife is Tysha and that  is all. I don't think they will meet again. It's just a sad and cruel history that ended cruelly and sad. Nothing more.

Gerion set sail around 290 AC. And, besides of him being a sailor or a guy who got into a ship and got into a quest... How do you link the Wife to him?

[Lord Lannister]

4 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I'm still for the Tysha = Sailor's wife theory. Lanna is exactly 14 years old, which coincides with Tyrion's marriage to Tysha. The Wife is described as having a beautiful face but a rotten heart. In fact, Feast mentions several times that the Wife has some kind of hidden issue (described as sad, with a rotten heart, etc).

Lanna has enough leads of having Lannister blood. She's called Lanna and has golden hair. 

For me, Lanna is Tyrion's daughter, the Wife is Tysha and that  is all. I don't think they will meet again. It's just a sad and cruel history that ended cruelly and sad. Nothing more.

Gerion set sail around 290 AC. And, besides of him being a sailor or a guy who got into a ship and got into a quest... How do you link the Wife to him?

She's the SAILOR's wife. Gerion was a known sailor and Tyrion wasn't anything of the sort when he was with Tysha. Tyrion wanted to take a tour of the free cities, much like his uncles did when he came of age. So we know Gerion has been to Bravos at least once, not counting his quest for the holy gra- I mean sword. We already know Gerion had a habit of sleeping around, and a handsome lord coming, making sweet promises, only to never appear again could easily disillusion her.

[maegiithefrog]

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

She's the SAILOR's wife. Gerion was a known sailor and Tyrion wasn't anything of the sort when he was with Tysha. Tyrion wanted to take a tour of the free cities, much like his uncles did when he came of age. So we know Gerion has been to Bravos at least once, not counting his quest for the holy gra- I mean sword. We already know Gerion had a habit of sleeping around, and a handsome lord coming, making sweet promises, only to never appear again could easily disillusion her.

I've always thought the moniker to not be specific to a specific sailor but to ALL sailors. The sailors come to port, hit the brothels, maybe marry the Sailor's Wife for a night... That said, I do think Tysha is the Sailors' Wife, disillusioned with how her marriage to Tyrion turned out thereby making a mockery of the institution with whoever has top dollar.

[Ser J]

Is Tysha dead?

I thought that she's the working girl in Bravos who married everyone before she bangs them.

[Jon Fossoway]

39 minutes ago, maegiithefrog said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

She's the SAILOR's wife. Gerion was a known sailor and Tyrion wasn't anything of the sort when he was with Tysha. Tyrion wanted to take a tour of the free cities, much like his uncles did when he came of age. So we know Gerion has been to Bravos at least once, not counting his quest for the holy gra- I mean sword. We already know Gerion had a habit of sleeping around, and a handsome lord coming, making sweet promises, only to never appear again could easily disillusion her.

She is working on a ports brothel, you know...

And she is definitely reluctant to give away her true name. And we could assume she's young (Arya only mentions her pretty face, and for a westerosi child a woman over her 30s is already old).

Tyrion mentions Tysha is about one year older than him as he was 13 years old when they met. That kind of fix everything. The Wife's daughter is 14 years old. Tyrion is 27 years old in the books. Lanna is Tyrion's daughter. Tysha ran away from Westeros with a bag full of coins, erased her name and lived in a no-place, where people come and go, thus adopting a no-name, the Sailor's Wife. Everyone and noones wife.

I really hope Tyrion don't bump into Tysha in the books. If the Sailors Wife is Tysha, the story ended as tragically as you would expect in ASOIAF.

[esilvia2003]

22 hours ago, TimJames said:

That's one possible ending. I could see Tyrion finding her gravestone (or otherwise learning that she's dead) and breaking down into sobbing. 

That is so weird because I was literally thinking the same thing

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Tyrion makes it plain that Tywin had the marriage to Tysha legally undone (under what legal statute he doesn't mention, but it really doesn't matter). So if Tysha makes a reappearance, it won't be to invalidate Tyrion's marriage to Sansa or anyone else. 

[starkwolves]

I dont think so... Tyrion still looking for him so i guess she's alive....

[Danelle]

17 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I'm still for the Tysha = Sailor's wife theory. Lanna is exactly 14 years old, which coincides with Tyrion's marriage to Tysha. The Wife is described as having a beautiful face but a rotten heart. In fact, Feast mentions several times that the Wife has some kind of hidden issue (described as sad, with a rotten heart, etc).

Lanna has enough leads of having Lannister blood. She's called Lanna and has golden hair. 

For me, Lanna is Tyrion's daughter, the Wife is Tysha and that  is all. I don't think they will meet again. It's just a sad and cruel history that ended cruelly and sad. Nothing more.

Gerion set sail around 290 AC. And, besides of him being a sailor or a guy who got into a ship and got into a quest... How do you link the Wife to him?

Well, he is a sailor, an adventurer and an explorer.

He is a Lannister, who also has the Lannister looks.

Naming the girl Lanna suggests that the father is a Lannister. 

Why would Tysha name her child after the Lannisters, the people who misteated her? By mistreatment, I refer to the horrible physical and psychological abuse she endured at the orders of Tywin Lannister. Let us not forget that Tyrion also took part in her humiliation. 

 

When she is described as beautiful but with a rotten heart?

 

The first reference is ia a FFC Sam chapter, where Arya mentions her.

 

Then Arya mentions that the girls in the brothel were nice to her, including the Sailor's Wife.

 

While the SW praises Dareon's voice and looks, Arya thinks that his heart is foul. 

The clue which makes me consider Gerion a more likely candidate for SW's first husband is the following:

 

Quote

The other whores said that the Sailor's Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."

Whether or not Yna's prediction is accurate or not is debatable. Perhaps it should be taken literally or metaphorically.

But why would Tysha, after all those horrible things that Tyrion did to her, still love him and pray for him and wait for him to return?

Quote

" And to take her one last time, after the rest were done. One last time, with no trace of love or tenderness remaining. "So you will remember her as she truly is," he said, and I should have defied him, but my cock betrayed me, and I did as I was bid. "

It is stated that Tyrion was meant to humiliate her further, without exhibiting any sings of love or tenderness.

 

I can understand why the idea of the SW being Tysha is appealing and I am not rejecting entirely the possibility.

If it is true though, I find the concept of Tysha praying for Tyrion and anticipating for his return, very unrealistic.

 

[Danelle]

14 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

She's the SAILOR's wife. Gerion was a known sailor and Tyrion wasn't anything of the sort when he was with Tysha. Tyrion wanted to take a tour of the free cities, much like his uncles did when he came of age. So we know Gerion has been to Bravos at least once, not counting his quest for the holy gra- I mean sword. We already know Gerion had a habit of sleeping around, and a handsome lord coming, making sweet promises, only to never appear again could easily disillusion her.

Exactly.

Gerion's personality is typical of a carefree man, who wants to avoid responsibilities but at the same time he is not hated or despised.

He was not annoying but apparently charismatic.

If indeed he is to appear in the novels and if he actually went to Valyria, then the prospect of him returning back to her safe and sound are limited.

[HexMachina]

4 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

Tyrion makes it plain that Tywin had the marriage to Tysha legally undone (under what legal statute he doesn't mention, but it really doesn't matter). So if Tysha makes a reappearance, it won't be to invalidate Tyrion's marriage to Sansa or anyone else. 

An annulment is said to require the agreement of the High Septon. I would be very doubtful that it was legally undone

14 minutes ago, Danelle said:

Well, he is a sailor, an adventurer and an explorer.

He is a Lannister, who also has the Lannister looks.

Naming the girl Lanna suggests that the father is a Lannister. 

Why would Tysha name her child after the Lannisters, the people who misteated her? By mistreatment, I refer to the horrible physical and psychological abuse she endured at the orders of Tywin Lannister. Let us not forget that Tyrion also took part in her humiliation. 

 

When she is described as beautiful but with a rotten heart?

 

The first reference is ia a FFC Sam chapter, where Arya mentions her.

 

Then Arya mentions that the girls in the brothel were nice to her, including the Sailor's Wife.

 

While the SW praises Dareon's voice and looks, Arya thinks that his heart is foul. 

The clue which makes me consider Gerion a more likely candidate for SW's first husband is the following:

 

Whether or not Yna's prediction is accurate or not is debatable. Perhaps it should be taken literally or metaphorically.

But why would Tysha, after all those horrible things that Tyrion did to her, still love him and pray for him and wait for him to return?

It is stated that Tyrion was meant to humiliate her further, without exhibiting any sings of love or tenderness.

 

I can understand why the idea of the SW being Tysha is appealing and I am not rejecting entirely the possibility.

If it is true though, I find the concept of Tysha praying for Tyrion and anticipating for his return, very unrealistic.

 

Very nicely said, sums up all of the reasons I doubt Tysha is the Sailor's Wife, particularly the last one (why would she pray for her husband's return)

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I've done the maths and Lanna can not be Gerion's daughter. 

It was a while back though and I will have to re work it all out. But it is there in those quotes about how old she was when she lost her husband, and the dates Gerion disapeared. it basically adds up to her having had to have been about 9 when she gave birth to Lanna. Which is absurd. Meaning that if lanna is a Lannister she isn't gerion's

 

I always felt the Sailors wife is Tysha theory to be a stretch but since doing the maths I've become a believer. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

1 hour ago, Danelle said:

The other whores said that the Sailor's Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."

 

So basically if the Sailors wife is Gerion's wife/lover. And Lanna his daughter. And she was 14 (no older than Yanna) when he set sail in 291. And it is now 300. then she is now 23. And as Lanna is 14, she must have been born in 286. Meaning that the Sailors wife must have been erm.......9 when she gave birth. 

[Danelle]

55 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

 

So basically if the Sailors wife is Gerion's wife/lover. And Lanna his daughter. And she was 14 (no older than Yanna) when he set sail in 291. And it is now 300. then she is now 23. And as Lanna is 14, she must have been born in 286. Meaning that the Sailors wife must have been erm.......9 when she gave birth. 

Well, 291 is the year when Gerion left for Essos and he never returned.

But according to Tyrion, this was not the only time that Gerion had left home.

Quote

 His uncle Gerion liked to set him on the table during feasts and make him recite them. I liked that well enough, didn't I? Standing there amongst the trenchers with every eye upon me, proving what a clever little imp I was. For years afterward, he had cherished a dream that one day he would travel the world and see Longstrider's wonders for himself.

Lord Tywin had put an end to that hope ten days before his dwarf son's sixteenth nameday, when Tyrion asked to tour the Nine Free Cities, as his uncles had done at that same age. "My brothers could be relied upon to bring no shame upon House Lannister," his father had replied. "Neither ever wed a whore."

Apparently, when Gerion was 16 he went to Essos. And perhaps he visited the continent at least once before his last journey in 291. 

 

Again I am not excluding entirely the possibility of SW being Tysha, but if this is the case, it doesn't make sense. GRRM writes complicated characters, especially women very well. Having Tysha as a still devoted wife to a man who abused her, is not his style. 

Also if the SW is indeed married to Gerion, the Tywin's words to Tyrion would be very ironic. 

According to wiki, Lanna was born in 286.

Also, according to wiki, Tysha and Tyrion got married in 287.

 

WOW SPOILERS

 

Spoiler

From Mercy chapter 

Quote

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”

A Lannister guard mentions visiting at some point, while Tywin was Hand, Essos. Interactions between Westeros and Essos, whether they involved individuals or members of the Small Council, were not limited. We cannot exclude the possibility of Gerion 14 years before the events of FFC  meeting SW. And we don't have evidence suggesting that Gerion met SW in 291, impregnated her and then left. My approach is that Gerion, fourteen years before 300, met SW,she got pregnant and then left her without returning. She has no idea where he went or where he has been since. It is possible that Gerion, abandoned her long before his fatal journey.  We still not know many things about the whereabouts of several characters. A notable example is the incident between Aerys and Joanna. Those who opposed the theory that Tyrion might be Aerys' son, argued that Joanna did not spent any time with Aerys at the time of Tyrion's conception. But once WOIAF was published, it turned out that they had interacted at a time when Joanna might have conceived Tyrion. 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I much prefer to build theories on the text and what it tells us than on what if's and maybe's. 

 

We know he disappeared in 291, and we know she was 14 when her husband disappeared. 

We know Lanna was born in around 286. 

That is the information I feel should be used when assessing the likelihood of who her father is. As frankly if you are going to say. well he could have been to Braavos and met her earlier and  never come back, before disappearing in 291. Then you can say just about anything at all. maybe Tywin is the father, or Kevan, I mean basically what you are suggesting has as much evidence as either of those two as potential fathers. 

Of course IF information comes to us which hints Gerion had met her on his travels in 285/6 even though we are not given those dates as a time he was travelling, and that he simply got her pregnant and ran off. Then I'll consider it. But you are basically grasping at straws as nothing we currently have in text suggests it. GRRM tellingly did not mention any hints of him having done so in TWOAIF which would have been the ideal point to drop a clue. 

So until anything comes up to suggest otherwise I'd say the best idea is to use the clues in the actual text, which tells us that the SW lost her "husband" at 14, and her daughter was born in 286ish. and that Gerion was lost in 291. Which would have made the SW 9 when she gave birth. 

IF the world book had casually dropped that he went to Braavos in 285/6 then I'd buy it. But it didn't. 

You can't build theories on could have's. 

[Jon Fossoway]

18 hours ago, maegiithefrog said:

3 hours ago, Danelle said:

 

  Hide contents

 

20 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

 

[Jon Fossoway]

Sorry for that, I had to fricking clean my response box.

Danelle, Tyrion married Tysha when he was 13 years old, Tysha was 14. If Tyrion was born in 273, this means he met Tysha in 286, the same year Lanna was conceived.

 

[sarah.jenice]

On 3/3/2016 at 7:11 PM, Dorian Martell said:

Well, she was a pretty commoner when she met Tyrion. Not much is known about her strengths, but I can only imagine that  being sexually assaulted by an entire garrison of troops would cause a great deal of physical damage to her, and medical care being non-existent means she could have died from infection soon after
That does not begin to include the psychological damage of said rape compounded by the fact that  her husband, the one man who should be there to protect her was in on it at  the end. Suicide or extremely destructive behavior can be a result from trauma of that magnitude. 
So, Dead? Likely
Alive? in the technical sense yes, but probably dead inside, or at least traumatized with major PTSD 

This is certainly possible, but Pretty Pia survived being put in a stockade to be used by any man who wanted her for I don't know how long (a scene I found deeply disturbing considering it was Arya who is seeing it), and since it was a punishment for her, I seriously doubt those men treated her gently. It's not too long after that when Pia tries to sleep with Jaime, showing that she made it through countless assaults without sustaining any life-threatening injuries and is even still able to enjoy sex. However, it does make a difference that Pia had a lot of previous partners, whereas Tysha had been a virgin before Tyrion, so she only had a fortnight for her body to become accustomed to sex before getting gang-raped. 

As for Tysha being the Sailor’s Wife, I don’t know how many men are in a barracks of guards, but she must have walked away with a small fortune. From Pate’s struggle to come up with a gold dragon, we know how valuable even a single one is, so with a gold dragon and all those silver stags, I don’t see why Tysha would need to work in a brothel. She should have had enough money to start over anywhere and buy her own home, and after everything she went through, I just feel like she would want a quieter, more private life than that of a brothel. If Tysha is the Sailor's Wife, the psychological damage from what she went through must have caused her to feel like being a whore was what she deserved or the only thing she could be because she was no longer "pure" so no one would marry her, which is just so very, very sad. 

While I think it's interesting that Lanna's age matches the time when Tysha and Tyrion would have been together, I find it a little hard to believe Tysha would name her daughter that after what the Lannisters did to her. It's not uncommon for a rape victim who gets pregnant to have an abortion, let alone keep the child and name it after the family that brutalized her.

Also, the Sailor's Wife is so adamant that Lanna's father is a Lannister, but how could Tysha be sure Tyrion was the father of her child? Just imagine how many times she’d have to go on Maury.

"Tyrion Lannister, you ARE the father."

I feel like GRRM wanted to give us a potential candidate for Tysha during Tyrion’s “Where do whores go?” arc, but he’ll actually never confirm the true identity of the Sailor’s Wife. I honestly don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer about what happened to Tysha.

[Dorian Martell]

1 minute ago, sarah.jenice said:

This is certainly possible, but Pretty Pia survived being put in a stockade to be used by any man who wanted her for I don't know how long (a scene I found deeply disturbing considering it was Arya who is seeing it), and since it was a punishment for her, I seriously doubt those men treated her gently. It's not too long after that when Pia tries to sleep with Jaime, showing that she made it through countless assaults without sustaining any life-threatening injuries and is even still able to enjoy sex. However, it does make a difference that Pia had a lot of previous partners, whereas Tysha had been a virgin before Tyrion, so she only had a fortnight for her body to become accustomed to sex before getting gang-raped. 

 

As for Tysha being the Sailor’s Wife, I don’t know how many men are in a barracks of guards, but she must have walked away with a small fortune. From Pate’s struggle to come up with a gold dragon, we know how valuable even a single one is, so with a gold dragon and all those silver stags, I don’t see why Tysha would need to work in a brothel. She should have had enough money to start over anywhere and buy her own home, and after everything she went through, I just feel like she would want a quieter, more private life than that of a brothel. If Tysha is the Sailor's Wife, the psychological damage from what she went through must have caused her to feel like being a whore was what she deserved or the only thing she could be because she was no longer "pure" so no one would marry her, which is just so very, very sad. 

 

While I think it's interesting that Lanna's age matches the time when Tysha and Tyrion would have been together, I find it a little hard to believe Tysha would name her daughter that after what the Lannisters did to her. It's not uncommon for a rape victim who gets pregnant to have an abortion, let alone keep the child and name it after the family that brutalized her.

 

Also, the Sailor's Wife is so adamant that Lanna's father is a Lannister, but how could Tysha be sure Tyrion was the father of her child? Just imagine how many times she’d have to go on Maury.

 

"Tyrion Lannister, you ARE the father."

I feel like GRRM wanted to give us a potential candidate for Tysha during Tyrion’s “Where do whores go?” arc, but he’ll actually never confirm the true identity of the Sailor’s Wife. I honestly don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer about what happened to Tysha.

You assume she wasn't robbed by the men who raped her as she left. 

[sarah.jenice]

38 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

You assume she wasn't robbed by the men who raped her as she left. 

Aww man. That's even sadder. Poor Tysha.