Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 In your opinion, what is the most terrible atrocity committed by a person or peoples in Westeros that we know of since Aegon's conquest? Didn't want to go back in history too far to where details and truth are hard to come by. Just off the top of my head: Red Wedding, Castamere, Maegor the Cruel's various actions, Cheese(?) making the Queen choose which son dies, Brandon/Rickard's deaths, Frey Pies, Ramsey/Lady Hornwood, Sack of King's Landing, Stannis killing Renly ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayrouse Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'd propose The rule of house Targaryen. They managed to effectively turn a private Bracken-Blackwood feud into a series of Wars that engulfed all of Westeros just because one megalomaniac couldn't keep it in his pants. They murdered tens of thousands of subjects because they did not want to adhere to the values of the people they had colonised. They influenced other morons like Cersei. (regarding incest and pyromania) They ruled (more or less unopposed) for three hundred years but failed to do anything about the declining night's watch and allowed it to weaken just in time for the return of the others. Thanks to their hubris they repeatedly led innocents to their deaths -Invasion of Dorne (twice) -BBQing of Summerhall -Attempted mass murder at Kingslanding etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 To start out with, I should mention that I believe in Moral Universialism. That philosophical school of thought is the belief that "... there is a universal ethic which applies to all people, regardless of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality or other distinguishing feature, and all the time. A universal ethic is a moral system that applies universally to all of humanity, and thus transcends culture and personal whim. The source or justification of this system is variously claimed to be human nature, a shared vulnerability to suffering, [or] the demands of universal reason". So don't try arguing with me using any of that "murdering civilians is justifiable in this era" bullshit. It is not; those who partake in it are inhuman monsters whether they live in the year 1000 or 2000. Having said all this I will state that The Sack of Tumbleton, which featured wholesale slaughter and the rape of 8-year old girls, stands out in my mind as especially horrific.This act of needless barbarism against an innocent populace is a clear example of Man's Inhumanity to Man, and those who committed and orchestrated it deserve to be hanged (crimes against humanity are one of the few crimes for which I support execution. I'm not shedding any tears for Hans Aumeier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroclasticFlow Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 21 minutes ago, Cayrouse said: Don't know what happened there... I would say the crucification of 163 slave children by the Masters of Meereen is tops for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, PyroclasticFlow said: Don't know what happened there... I would say the crucification of 163 slave children by the Masters of Meereen is tops for me. Very fair, just for arguments sake I said Westeros in the OP simply because I think slavery allows for a whole different degree of terrible. More than happy to open the thread into Essos. With that I would add the simple practice of creating an unsullied army. The combo of gelding, raising and killing a puppy and then murdering an infant slave in front of their mother is by far the most disturbing thing I read in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayrouse Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 43 minutes ago, PyroclasticFlow said: Don't know what happened there... I would say the crucification of 163 slave children by the Masters of Meereen is tops for me. Hey! did you mean with the blank quote ( it sometimes bugs like that-nothing to worry about) or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Cayrouse said: I'd propose The rule of house Targaryen. They managed to effectively turn a private Bracken-Blackwood feud into a series of Wars that engulfed all of Westeros just because one megalomaniac couldn't keep it in his pants. They murdered tens of thousands of subjects because they did not want to adhere to the values of the people they had colonised. They influenced other morons like Cersei. (regarding incest and pyromania) They ruled (more or less unopposed) for three hundred years but failed to do anything about the declining night's watch and allowed it to weaken just in time for the return of the others. Thanks to their hubris they repeatedly led innocents to their deaths -Invasion of Dorne (twice) -BBQing of Summerhall -Attempted mass murder at Kingslanding etc... Perhaps the greatest single event since the conquest was Robert sending Rhaegar to meet the Stranger at the Trident. I don't love the Targs either. I don't know the answer to this but what is worse in Westeros: Numerous minor house conflicts or one national one? I agree that the Unworthy caused a ton of issues. But between his rule and Maegors things seemed okay or better than with the Old King and such. As we know from twoiaf it was not as if the continent was at peace prior to dragon rule. The Targs did good things and terrible things and just for a discussion I would say Targ rule in Westeros was overall a neutral time when you consider what happened before and after their rule. Maegor murdering everyone who built the red keep, is something I would agree with in this thread. And Aerys. But Targ rule is too broad and as we know the God's flipped coins and everything was 50-50 ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 58 minutes ago, TimJames said: To start out with, I should mention that I believe in Moral Universialism. That philosophical school of thought is the belief that "... there is a universal ethic which applies to all people, regardless of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality or other distinguishing feature, and all the time. A universal ethic is a moral system that applies universally to all of humanity, and thus transcends culture and personal whim. The source or justification of this system is variously claimed to be human nature, a shared vulnerability to suffering, [or] the demands of universal reason". So don't try arguing with me using any of that "murdering civilians is justifiable in this era" bullshit. It is not; those who partake in it are inhuman monsters whether they live in the year 1000 or 2000. Having said all this I will state that The Sack of Tumbleton, which featured wholesale slaughter and the rape of 8-year old girls, stands out in my mind as especially horrific.This act of needless barbarism against an innocent populace is a clear example of Man's Inhumanity to Man, and those who committed and orchestrated it deserve to be hanged (crimes against humanity are one of the few crimes for which I support execution. I'm not shedding any tears for Hans Aumeier). The Sack of Tumbleton is not an event I know much about so thanks I will do some research. I definitely adhere to Moral Universalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'm sure it's something Tywin Lannister did. Take your pick: -Drowning the Reynes in the mines -Unleashing Gregor Clegane on Elia and her children -Ordering the gang rape of his daughter in law Just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, Nictarion said: I'm sure it's something Tywin Lannister did. Take your pick: -Drowning the Reynes in the mines -Unleashing Gregor Clegane on Elia and her children -Ordering the gang rape of his daughter in law Just to name a few. I agree. When you really think about it, who performed more "mad" acts: Tywin or Aerys. Aerys' deeds came from a more mental and deranged place but Tywin's were much more awful in the big scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2908 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Mention all the battles you want, but the Long Night is coming and it will cause more death and destruction than all the wars combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, Falcon2908 said: Mention all the battles you want, but the Long Night is coming and it will cause more death and destruction than all the wars combined I don't deny that but I was asking more for despicable decisions that mankind came up with. It is just easier to try to understand and relate to decisions and acts of evil that human characters create in this tale. We don't know the white walkers. We do know what it is like love and care for other people and humanity as whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2908 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Rob Storm said: I don't deny that but I was asking more for despicable decisions that mankind came up with. It is just easier to try to understand and relate to decisions and acts of evil that human characters create in this tale. We don't know the white walkers. We do know what it is like love and care for other people and humanity as whole. I felt the deaths of Brandon and Rickard Stark to be truly horrific, just like Elias and her children's deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Some of the more graphic imagary in the whole series is Jaime's description of this scene. It seems like the thing that haunts him most with the exception of Aerys' wildfire. I agree 100%, and I was kind of hoping that an act like this that really changed my entire view of certain families in this series would be included. Obviously, mass genocide and massacre of people is as evil as it gets but the manner in which these two people Brandon and Rickard die..it doesn't get much worse. I meant to quote the above post, sorry falcon2908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Massacre at Saltpans. Pretty bad. Ramsay hunting, raping, killing, and flaying those girls. Not always in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroclasticFlow Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Cayrouse said: Hey! did you mean with the blank quote ( it sometimes bugs like that-nothing to worry about) or something else? Yeah I hit quote by accident and then tried to delete it when on my tablet. I couldn't figure it out. And in regards to OP, it totally went right past me when it plainly said Westeros, I was responding to worst atrocity I've read in series so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 10 hours ago, TimJames said: To start out with, I should mention that I believe in Moral Universialism. That philosophical school of thought is the belief that "... there is a universal ethic which applies to all people, regardless of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality or other distinguishing feature, and all the time. A universal ethic is a moral system that applies universally to all of humanity, and thus transcends culture and personal whim. The source or justification of this system is variously claimed to be human nature, a shared vulnerability to suffering, [or] the demands of universal reason". So don't try arguing with me using any of that "murdering civilians is justifiable in this era" bullshit. It is not; those who partake in it are inhuman monsters whether they live in the year 1000 or 2000. Not trolling but who decides what the universal ethic is that applies to all people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 The first Reek indulging in necrophilia, and Ramsay then forcing Jeyne to engage in bestiality. I know these are pretty small scale, but I believe these actions to be among the worst detailed in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said: The first Reek indulging in necrophilia, and Ramsay then forcing Jeyne to engage in bestiality. I know these are pretty small scale, but I believe these actions to be among the worst detailed in the series. The first I had forgotten. The second I was unsure of, thought I had read it, but not 100%. Thanks for confirming. I don't think the acts need to be on a large scale, the cruelest ones are often the personal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'm sure it's something Tywin Lannister did. Take your pick: -Drowning the Reynes in the mines -Unleashing Gregor Clegane on Elia and her children -Ordering the gang rape of his daughter in law Just to name a few. It depends if you're going for large-scale evil, or small-scale evil. Of course, Tywin was guilty of both, with the horrors you mention at one end of the scale, and the invasion of the Riverlands and the Sack of Kings Landing at the other. In terms of small-scale evil, Craster, Ramsay, Gregor Clegane, the Bloody Mummers, Qyburn, all outdo Tywin in the depravity stakes. It would be difficult to single out the most terrible act, as there are so many to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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