Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I don't have the exact wording on this one, but in aGoT, Daenerys promises Jorah that one day she will give him a sword. It reminds me of when the Smiling Knight tells Ser Arthur Dayne that he wants his sword, and Ser Arthur says: "Than you shall have it,"  before killing him.

So I predict that Dany will kill Jorah, and her promise is foreshadowing of this...

Perhaps she will plunge the sword into his breast, and then it will burst into flames? 

[BricksAndSparrows]

12 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps she will plunge the sword into his breast, and then it will burst into flames? 

Yeah, something along those lines. I hadn't thought of the whole fire bit, though.

[The Fattest Leech]

Ok. I posted this a few pages back, but as always, when I am doing research for something else is when I find the best connections to other ideas, so I updated

This is the new info I found. It's not really new info, I just never made the match for some reason???:

In the poem Grímnismál, Odin (disguised as Grímnir), tortured, starved and thirsty, tells the young Agnar that he wishes that the valkyries Hrist ("shaker") and Mist ("cloud") would "bear him a [drinking] horn", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie

Poetic Edda:

On the horn’s face were there All the kin of letters Cut aright and reddened, How should I rede them rightly? The ling-fish long (a ling-fish is a dragon?) Of the land of Hadding, Wheat-ears unshorn, And wild things inwards.

We have a few references to Sam being so scared that he shakes (could be coincidental), but we also know Bloodraven is heavily associated with the mists.

Sam is in Oldtown to train a s a maester and the third link is generally the bronze link, which is astronomy. The bronze bands on the horn are broken and it's a good thing Sam is in a place that trains its people to forge metals and also has a library that holds secrets from hundreds of years past. Sam does love to read and learn about past, as Jon also commanded him to do.

A Clash of Kings - Jon V

It must have been buried for a reason.

He had made a dagger for Grenn as well, and another for the Lord Commander. The warhorn he had given to Sam. On closer examination the horn had proved cracked, and even after he had cleaned all the dirt out, Jon had been unable to get any sound from it. The rim was chipped as well, but Sam liked old things, even worthless old things. "Make a drinking horn out of it," Jon told him, "and every time you take a drink you'll remember how you ranged beyond the Wall, all the way to the Fist of the First Men." He gave Sam a spearhead and a dozen arrowheads as well, and passed the rest out among his other friends for luck.

[Lost Melnibonean]

This has been noted in the past, but I think it is some of the cleverest foreshadowing in the series...

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To starboard of Allard's Lady Marya were the three galleys that Stannis had seized from the unfortunate Lord Sunglass, Piety, Prayer, and Devotion, their decks crawling with archers.

...

Prayer landed two dozen yards upstream and Piety was slanting toward the bank when the defenders came pounding down the riverside, the hooves of their warhorses sending up gouts of water from the shallows. The knights fell among the archers like wolves among chickens, driving them back toward the ships and into the river before most could notch an arrow. Men-at-arms rushed to defend them with spear and axe, and in three heartbeats the scene had turned to blood-soaked chaos. Davos recognized the dog's-head helm of the Hound. A white cloak streamed from his shoulders as he rode his horse up the plank onto the deck of Prayer, hacking down anyone who blundered within reach.

 

Davos III, Clash 58

So, we have a scene where Sandor rides Stanger onto Prayer. Then...

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Ser Osmund Kettleblack brought Clegane his shield, a massive thing of heavy oak rimmed in black iron. As the Mountain slid his left arm through the straps, Tyrion saw that the hounds of Clegane had been painted over. This morning Ser Gregor bore the seven-pointed star the Andals had brought to Westeros when they crossed the narrow sea to overwhelm the First Men and their gods.

...

Gregor's big wooden shield took its share of hits as well, until a dog's head peeped out from under the star, and elsewhere the raw oak showed through.

 

Tyrion X, Storm 70

We see a dog of raw oak hiding under the seven pointed star of the faith of the seven.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I am sure that it has to be mentioned before;

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She narrowed her eyes. "What is our heart’s desire?"
"Vengeance." His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening. "Justice." Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty fingers, and whispered, "Fire and blood."

Doran holds the black dragon. Could it mean that he will support the Blackfyres?

[Lost Melnibonean]

12 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I am sure that it has to be mentioned before;

Doran holds the black dragon. Could it mean that he will support the Blackfyres?

I don't know that he will support House Blackfyre, but he will back Aegon, and black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't know that he will support House Blackfyre, but he will back Aegon, and black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. 

I don't believe that they will know that they will support the Blackfyres but I don't believe that they would particularly care if he is a Targ or a Blackfyre.

[Lost Melnibonean]

39 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't believe that they will know that they will support the Blackfyres but I don't believe that they would particularly care if he is a Targ or a Blackfyre.

I agree. Blood and fire is just as good as fire and blood. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

I agree. Blood and fire is just as good as fire and blood. 

and since FAegon will be their only chance they will not have no option but support him.

[Lord Wraith]

I found some quotes that could be foreshadowing or nothing. The problem with the books is that almost everything seems like foreshadowing to someone.  Each time a several of groups are mentioned and the next sentence mentions Dorne in some fashion. Foreshadowing some connection to Dorne and I wonder if it could foreshadow some part of Doran 17 year plan.

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The realm will rise for its rightful king. Tyrell, Redwyne, Darry, Greyjoy, they have no more love for the Usurper than I do. The Dornishmen burn to avenge Elia and her children. 

Tyrell's were Targaryen loyalists in Robert's Rebellion and were political outsiders might like the Dornish during Robert's Reign. Redwyne's were also loyalist and are closely connected to the Tyrell's via Olenna. Darry's saved the Targaryen exiles, Jonothor was KG, noted Targaryen loyalists. Greyjoy is a stretch... still Balon got it into his head that the realm wasn't that united under Robert and rose in rebellion.
 

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Jaime had made mention of the Free Cities, but had never said which one. "Is it Braavos? Tyrosh? Myr?" Tyrion would sooner have gone to Dorne.

The Sealord of Braavos is a signatory on the secret marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne (as was Willem Darry). Arianne was supposed to be a cupbearer to the Archon of Tyrosh and despite that not happening the Archon still sent his daughter to the Water Garden. Myr... all I can think of directly is Lady Taena, who many readers think is a spy for someone.

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"The Crown is more than six million gold pieces in debt, Lord Stark. The Lannisters are the biggest part of it, but we have also borrowed from Lord Tyrell, the Iron Bank of Braavos, and several Tyroshi trading cartels. Of late I've had to turn to the Faith. The High Septon haggles worse than a Dornish fishmonger.

Dornish fishmonger struck me as an odd phrase. What are Dornish fishmongers doing in King's Landing? Lannisters are of course the biggest enemy of the Dornish. Tyrell's again and I know people play up the hatred between Dornishmen and Reachers, but Oberyn was penpals with Willas Tyrell the very unoafish son (according to Olenna). The Iron Bank, Braavos again. Tyroshi trading cartels, Tyrosh again. The Faith? Perhaps foreshadowing of the Sparrow movement?

So forum I ask you do you think that the Martells have been doing any actual planning in the past 17 years or just had their heads in the sand? I am not sure if there is any Dornish Masterplan but I can't help but think that the Dornish have been doing something in the past 17 years.

[Lord Wraith]

8 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I am sure that it has to be mentioned before;

Doran holds the black dragon. Could it mean that he will support the Blackfyres?

Perhaps by Cyvasse pieces are black and white and not black and red... still could be. Dornish have to do something soon. I think Doran is waiting for actual fire breathing dragons, but Arianne might not be so picky.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Perhaps by Cyvasse pieces are black and white and not black and red... still could be. Dornish have to do something soon.

It could but is very interesting that he chose the black dragon and not the white for example.

7 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I think Doran is waiting for actual fire breathing dragons, but Arianne might not be so picky

Doran will not support the fire breathing dragons once he learns how his son died.

[Lost Melnibonean]

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She took a chunk of salt pork out of the bowl in her lap and held it up for her dragons to see. All three of them eyed it hungrily. Rhaegal spread green wings and stirred the air, and Viserion's neck swayed back and forth like a long pale snake's as he followed the movement of her hand. "Drogon," Dany said softly, "dracarys." And she tossed the pork in the air.

Drogon moved quicker than a striking cobra. Flame roared from his mouth, orange and scarlet and black, searing the meat before it began to fall. As his sharp black teeth snapped shut around it, Rhaegal's head darted close, as if to steal the prize from his brother's jaws, but Drogon swallowed and screamed, and the smaller green dragon could only hiss in frustration.

"Stop that, Rhaegal," Dany said in annoyance, giving his head a swat. "You had the last one. I'll have no greedy dragons."

...

"The warlocks in Qarth told you that you would be betrayed three times," the exile knight reminded her, as Viserion and Rhaegal began to snap and claw at each other.

 

Daenerys I, Storm 8

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Dany fled from the choice, out onto the terrace. She found Rhaegal asleep beside the pool, a green and bronze coil basking in the sun. Drogon was perched up atop the pyramid, in the place where the huge bronze harpy had stood before she had commanded it to be pulled down. He spread his wings and roared when he spied her. There was no sign of Viserion, but when she went to the parapet and scanned the horizon she saw pale wings in the far distance, sweeping above the river. He is hunting. They grow bolder every day. Yet it still made her anxious when they flew too far away. One day one of them may not return, she thought.

Daenerys VI, Storm 71

Foreshadows Rhaegal fighting against Drogon and Viserion in the Second Dance of the Dragons.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Daenerys will give Widow’s Wail to Jorah...

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"Ser Jorah Mormont," she said, "first and greatest of my knights, I have no bride gift to give you, but I swear to you, one day you shall have from my hands a longsword like none the world has ever seen, dragon-forged and made of Valyrian steel. And I would ask for your oath as well."

Daenerys X, Game 72

No one has ever seen anything like Widow’s Wail...

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Tyrion cleared his throat. "My lord. You sent for me?"

His father glanced up. "I did. Come have a look at this." A bundle of oilcloth lay on the table between them, and Lord Tywin had a longsword in his hand. "A wedding gift for Joffrey," he told Tyrion. The light streaming through the diamond-shaped panes of glass made the blade shimmer black and red as Lord Tywin turned it to inspect the edge, while the pommel and crossguard flamed gold. "With this fool's jabber of Stannis and his magic sword, it seemed to me that we had best give Joffrey something extraordinary as well. A king should bear a kingly weapon."

...

Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of its making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria. "The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it."

Tyrion IV, Storm 32

Nor, it’s slightly larger twin, Oathkeeper...

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"Brienne of Tarth." Jaime sighed. "I have a gift for you." He reached down under the Lord Commander's chair and brought it out, wrapped in folds of crimson velvet.

Brienne approached as if the bundle was like to bite her, reached out a huge freckled hand, and flipped back a fold of cloth. Rubies glimmered in the light. She picked the treasure up gingerly, curled her fingers around the leather grip, and slowly slid the sword free of its scabbard. Blood and black the ripples shone. A finger of reflected light ran red along the edge. "Is this Valyrian steel? I have never seen such colors."

"Nor I. There was a time that I would have given my right hand to wield a sword like that. Now it appears I have, so the blade is wasted on me. Take it."

Jaime IX, Storm 72

[Lost Melnibonean]

Oh, this must have been posted before...

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"Who? Bowen Marsh? The man counts spoons. Othell's a follower, does what he's told and does it well, but no more'n that. Slynt . . . well, his men like him, I'll grant you, and it would almost be worth it to stick him down the royal craw and see if Stannis gagged, but no. There's too much of King's Landing in that one. A toad grows wings and thinks he's a bloody dragon." Pyke laughed. "Who does that leave, Hobb? We could pick him, I suppose, only then who's going to boil your mutton, Slayer? You look like a man who likes his bloody mutton."

Samwell V, Storm 78

Foreshadows Quentyn in The Dragontamer. 

[Lord Wraith]

Anyone have thoughts on my Dornish idea several posts above?

 

[GhostNymeria]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it belongs here to.

I always believed that the biggest purpose of Lady Stoneheart is that she will be the turning point for Arya. Arya will give her the gift of mercy and thus reject the path of revenge, since LS is death and revenge personified. I think this because she already have a unique connection with Lady Stoneheart. It was Nymeria who dragged her body from the river, and she did this because Arya was warging her and recognized her smell. So in a symbolic way, Arya "created" Lady Stoneheart. Her mother, who she associated with love and comfort, got turned into a dead, hateful revenge demon. She is, in a way, a mirror and a personification to Arya's mental state about revenge and death, especially if she goes deeper down her dark path. Lady Stoneheart is also leading TBWB, which we got to know through Arya specificly. 

I find Arya's nightmare in ADWD interesting:

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"In that one she was always looking for her mother, stumbling through a wasted land of mud and blood and fire. It was always raining in that dream, and she could hear her mother screaming, but a monster with a dog’s head would not let her go save her."

The obvious interpretation to this is when Arya was trying to get to Cat and Robb at the Twins and Sandor hitting her in the head. But I find it curious that she's only is hearing her mother screaming and that she's only trying to help her mother. Robb isn't mentioned in the dream. That's why I suspect that the dream also could be foreshadowing to the confrontation between Arya and Lady Stoneheart.

"stumbling through a wasted land of mud and blood and fire" - A wasted land of mud, blood and fire is symbolism for destruction, desparity, death, consumption etc. This could be reffering to Arya's mental state in relation to her need for revenge when she comes back to Westeros and meets LS. She's also "stumbling through" it: her obsession with revenge grew out of things she couldn't control, her emotions and her sorrow. It has driven her to try to lose her identity, which she's also very conflicted about, thus "stumbling through her need for revenge".

"It was always raining in that dream" - Arya's character have an exclusive connection with water throughout the books. The rain could be symbolism of her accepting her identity. By killing LS, revenge obsessed Arya/No one will finally reject the path of revenge and decide to become Arya Stark of Winterfell again, and the water is symbolizing her.  

"she could hear her mother screaming, but a monster with a dog’s head would not let her go save her." - She wants to save her mother who is screaming. I interpret this as Arya giving LS the gift of mercy, thus "saving her" from her unnatural broken state she's in. Her hearing her mother screaming could be symbolism to Arya seing that broken, terrible state her mother is in.

"a monster with a dog’s head would not let her go save her." - This one is harder to tie to that confrontation. I guess it's not completely unlikely that Sandor might be there when this happens. It could also refer to Lem Lemoncloak who currently is in possesion of Sandor's dog's head helmet. He will probably be present if it happens. Or it could be reffering to something else we don't know about yet.

Thoughts?

[Sophist]

13 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

I posted this in another thread, but I think it belongs here to.

I always believed that the biggest purpose of Lady Stoneheart is that she will be the turning point for Arya. Arya will give her the gift of mercy and thus reject the path of revenge, since LS is death and revenge personified. I think this because she already have a unique connection with Lady Stoneheart. It was Nymeria who dragged her body from the river, and she did this because Arya was warging her and recognized her smell. So in a symbolic way, Arya "created" Lady Stoneheart. Her mother, who she associated with love and comfort, got turned into a dead, hateful revenge demon. She is, in a way, a mirror and a personification to Arya's mental state about revenge and death, especially if she goes deeper down her dark path. Lady Stoneheart is also leading TBWB, which we got to know through Arya specificly. 

I agree with this. I've said for years that LS is Arya's metaphorical vengeance. I think, as you do, that Arya will forego the path of vengeance when she gives the gift of mercy to LS.

[Lost Melnibonean]

12 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Anyone have thoughts on my Dornish idea several pots above?

 

Freudian slip?

I will be interested to see any feedback you get. 

[GhostNymeria]

1 hour ago, Sophist said:

I agree with this. I've said for years that LS is Arya's metaphorical vengeance. I think, as you do, that Arya will forego the path of vengeance when she gives the gift of mercy to LS.

Yes. I think there's to much connection between them, both physically and mentally, for LS not to be important to Arya's character development. Their connection is not coinsidental. And another connection I remembered now, is that Arya is present and hears the Ghost of High Heart's phrophecy about LS: 

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"I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror."

The dream scared her and she "woke from terror" when she saw LS. Moments later she has a similar reaction to Arya herself:

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"I see you. I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death ... You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

This connection adds to the theory that LS is Arya's methaphorical vengence. "Dead she drifted"-LS and "smelled of death"-Arya. Then we have "red tears on her cheeks"-LS and "Blood child"-Arya. TGoHH woke up and left the dream in terror when she saw LS, and she rejects Arya and tells her to "begone from here, dark heart. Begone!" Her reaction to Arya could be described as a reaction of terror. She also calls (Lady) Arya dark heart - Lady Stoneheart, who defintiely has a "dark" heart.

There's also the fact that tGoHH reaction to Arya was mainly because of Arya's grief. Grief is what you could describe Catelyn's last living moments before she died, and this is also probably why she became this hateful after her ressurrection.

Then there's the water and the Green fork connection: "a roaring river and a woman that was a fish". The roaring river was the Green fork and and the fish was Cat (Tully). She was dead in the water and Arya has a connection to water. There are these quotes from ASOS ,when Arya and the Hound crosses the storming (roaring) Green fork:

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"If I jumped over the side, the river would wash me away before the Hound even knew that I was gone."... 

"Jon used to say that she swam like a fish, but even a fish might have trouble in this river. "

 

Here we have Arya connected to a fish, just like LS was in the vision. And Arya thinks that "even a fish might have trouble in this river".  You could say that Catelyn/LS had trouble in this river, since it was in there she laid dead for several days before Nymeria pulled her up. Her being dead in the river for so long was probably a big reason why there's almost nothing left of Catelyn in LS.