Lost Melnibonean Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 1 hour ago, TyrionTLannister said: Perhaps this time it'll be the opposite. Tyrion will betray the greens for the blacks, Aegon for Dany. The parallel works both ways. Maybe. These quotes could serve as foreshadowing: Since this quote comes from the first chapter, it would make sense for it to be echoed in a major event way down the line. But still, I don't think this will happen. Tyrion is far too important a character to die like this. If he's going die at all, it'll be near the end of the series during the conflict with the Others. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 There is also this from the end of Arya's first ASOS chapter: Quote Filled with rage, she leapt onto his back, knocking him head-first from his saddle. Her jaws locked on his arm as they fell, her teeth sinking through the leather and wool and soft flesh. When they landed she gave a savage jerk with her head and ripped the limb loose from his shoulder. Exulting, she shook it back and forth in her mouth, scattering the warm red droplets amidst the cold black rain. The next chapter is a Tyrion chapter, where there are choice lines like these: Quote Tyrion shoved himself up higher, ignoring the sudden stab of pain through his shoulder. Hideous though his face might be, the worst of his wounds was the one at the juncture of shoulder and arm, where his own mail had been driven back into his armpit by an arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, TyrionTLannister said: There is also this from the end of Arya's first ASOS chapter: The next chapter is a Tyrion chapter, where there are choice lines like these: Are you a believer yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Quote Are you a believer yet? No, I stand by my theory that Tyrion will only die in the last scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Daenerys will be killed by the Others. Quote “Here and now,” Ser Jorah agreed. “You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood. Come the dry season, and the world turns the color of old bronze. And this is only hranna, child. There are a hundred kinds of grass out there, grasses as yellow as lemon and as dark as indigo, blue grasses and orange grasses and grasses like rainbows. Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end.” That thought gave Dany the shivers. “I don’t want to talk about that now,” she said. “It’s so beautiful here, I don’t want to think about everything dying.” “As you will, Khaleesi,” Ser Jorah said respectfully. When Daenerys expresses her wish to not talk about death, Jorah says, "as you will". This could be taken to mean that she will die as well. Now, I now it actually means "as you wish", but GRRM might have subtly inserted a clue as to her ultimate fate at the same time. Ghost grass refers to the Others. Just substitute "men" for "grass" and you get a perfect description of the Others. So the fact that Jorah is clearly describing the Others in a scene that foreshadows Dany will die implies that they will be the ones to bring about her death. Also, Daenerys gets the "shivers", which obviously alludes to the Others and possibly her manner of death. This quote also foreshadows that Dany will be killed by the Others. Quote The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, TyrionTLannister said: Daenerys will be killed by the Others. When Daenerys expresses her wish to not talk about death, Jorah says, "as you will". This could be taken to mean that she will die as well. Now, I now it actually means "as you wish", but GRRM might have subtly inserted a clue as to her ultimate fate at the same time. Ghost grass refers to the Others. Just substitute "men" for "grass" and you get a perfect description of the Others. So the fact that Jorah is clearly describing the Others in a scene that foreshadows Dany will die implies that they will be the ones to bring about her death. Also, Daenerys gets the "shivers", which obviously alludes to the Others and possibly her manner of death. This quote also foreshadows that Dany will be killed by the Others. UnDaenerys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Quote UnDaenerys? I don't think GRRM would go that far. I'm thinking Drogon dies, gets resurrected as a wight dragon, and kills Dany with his icy flames. This would make it impossible for her to be resurrected as a wight, which is as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said: I don't think GRRM would go that far. I'm thinking Drogon dies, gets resurrected as a wight dragon, and kills Dany with his icy flames. This would make it impossible for her to be resurrected as a wight, which is as it should be. Why would that make it impossible for her to rise as a wight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Quote Why would that make it impossible for her to rise as a wight? It would destroy her body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, TyrionTLannister said: It would destroy her body. Wouldn't "icy flames" freeze her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTLannister Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Quote Wouldn't "icy flames" freeze her? I don't know. Either way, it doesn't seem like it'd be possible to resurrect her after something like that. I think this scene foreshadows it: Quote Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night... Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce. And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi, “ Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Euron wants Oldtown... "It grieves me that honest men must suffer such discourtesy, but sooner that than ironmen in Oldtown. Only a fortnight ago some of those bloody bastards captured a Tyroshi merchantman in the straits. They killed her crew, donned their clothes, and used the dyes they found to color their whiskers half a hundred colors. Once inside the walls they meant to set the port ablaze and open a gate from within whilst we fought the fire. Might have worked, but they ran afoul of the Lady of the Tower, and her oarsmaster has a Tyroshi wife. When he saw all the green and purple beards he hailed them in the tongue of Tyrosh, and not one of them had the words to hail him back." Samwell V, Feast 45 This might suggest that Euron wants the Ravenry... "The Ravenry is the oldest building at the Citadel," Alleras told him, as they crossed over the slow-flowing waters of the Honeywine. "In the Age of Heroes it was supposedly the stronghold of a pirate lord who sat here robbing ships as they came down the river." Samwell V, Feast 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 I Here’s what will happen at Summerhall! Quote As dusk deepened, flies and stinging midges came swarming off the lake. The flies preferred to plague their horses, but the midges had a taste for man flesh. The only way to keep from being bitten was to sit close to the fire, breathing smoke. Cook or be devoured, Dunk thought glumly, now there's a beggar's choice. He scratched at his arms and edged closer to the fire. The Mystery Knight Dunk will choose the former... Quote Ser Uthor seated himself and stretched his legs out. "Prince Baelor was well loved. The Bright Prince had friends as well, friends who will not have forgotten the cause of his exile. Think on my offer, ser. The snail may leave a trail of slime behind him, but a little slime will do a man no harm ... whilst if you dance with dragons, you must expect to burn." II Glendon Ball will be one of Aegon’s Seven with Ser Duncan the Tall... Quote "Aemon and I used to pretend that our eggs would be the ones to hatch. If they did, we could fly through the sky on dragonback, like the first Aegon and his sisters." "Aye, and if all the other knights in the realm should die, I'd be the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. If these eggs are so bloody precious, why is Lord Butterwell giving his away?" ... "That's true enough," the boy said grudgingly, "but my father was once promised a place amongst the Kingsguard. I mean to claim the white cloak that he never got to wear." You have as much chance of wearing a white cloak as I do, Dunk almost said. You were born of a camp follower, and I crawled out of the gutters of Flea Bottom. Kings do not heap honor on the likes of you and me. The lad would not have taken kindly to that truth, however. Instead he said, "Strength to your arm, then." The Mystery Knight The lad was Glendon Ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I don't know if this has been pointed out many times before. I believe the bolded section below (from the chapter with Jaime's vigil for his father) foreshadows an upcoming meeting between Jaime and Catelyn at the BWB cave, after Brienne takes him there. Jaime is half asleep in his vigil and this has a dreamlike quality. There is the stuff about water, downing, pools, the wolf, the hood, which is mottled, and frayed like Stoneheart's face when Brienne sees it, when Lady S pushes back her hood. The White Book would be waiting when this vigil was done, his page open in dumb reproach. I'll hack the bloody book to pieces before I'll fill it full of lies. Yet if he would not lie, what could he write but truth? A woman stood before him. It is raining again, he thought when he saw how wet she was. The water was trickling down her cloak to puddle round her feet. How did she get here? I never heard her enter. She was dressed like a tavern wench in a heavy roughspun cloak, badly dyed in mottled browns and fraying at the hem. A hood concealed her face, but he could see the candles dancing in the green pools of her eyes, and when she moved he knew her. "Cersei." He spoke slowly, like a man waking from a dream, still wondering where he was. "What hour is it?" "The hour of the wolf." His sister lowered her hood, and made a face. "The drowned wolf, perhaps." She smiled for him, so sweetly. "Do you remember the first time I came to you like this? It was some dismal inn off Weasel Alley, and I put on servant's garb to get past Father's guards." "I remember. It was Eel Alley." She wants something of me. "Why are you here, at this hour? What would you have of me?" His last word echoed up and down the sept, mememememememememememe, fading to a whisper. For a moment he dared to hope that all she wanted was the comfort of his arms. Its interesting cause this passage refers back to his meeting with Cersei at the tavern, which Jaime has remembered elsewhere in the book, but here when Cersei makes the connection he immediately thinks 'she wants something of me' i.e. he seems aware now that Cersei was just seducing him into joining the KG that night. I think the passage is also reminiscent of Catelyn bringing her lantern to his cell, and it becomes the basis of his later dream of his mother, which changes Cersei to Joanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, Castellan said: I don't know if this has been pointed out many times before. I believe the bolded section below (from the chapter with Jaime's vigil for his father) foreshadows an upcoming meeting between Jaime and Catelyn at the BWB cave, after Brienne takes him there. Jaime is half asleep in his vigil and this has a dreamlike quality. There is the stuff about water, downing, pools, the wolf, the hood, which is mottled, and frayed like Stoneheart's face when Brienne sees it, when Lady S pushes back her hood. The White Book would be waiting when this vigil was done, his page open in dumb reproach. I'll hack the bloody book to pieces before I'll fill it full of lies. Yet if he would not lie, what could he write but truth? A woman stood before him. It is raining again, he thought when he saw how wet she was. The water was trickling down her cloak to puddle round her feet. How did she get here? I never heard her enter. She was dressed like a tavern wench in a heavy roughspun cloak, badly dyed in mottled browns and fraying at the hem. A hood concealed her face, but he could see the candles dancing in the green pools of her eyes, and when she moved he knew her. "Cersei." He spoke slowly, like a man waking from a dream, still wondering where he was. "What hour is it?" "The hour of the wolf." His sister lowered her hood, and made a face. "The drowned wolf, perhaps." She smiled for him, so sweetly. "Do you remember the first time I came to you like this? It was some dismal inn off Weasel Alley, and I put on servant's garb to get past Father's guards." "I remember. It was Eel Alley." She wants something of me. "Why are you here, at this hour? What would you have of me?" His last word echoed up and down the sept, mememememememememememe, fading to a whisper. For a moment he dared to hope that all she wanted was the comfort of his arms. Its interesting cause this passage refers back to his meeting with Cersei at the tavern, which Jaime has remembered elsewhere in the book, but here when Cersei makes the connection he immediately thinks 'she wants something of me' i.e. he seems aware now that Cersei was just seducing him into joining the KG that night. I think the passage is also reminiscent of Catelyn bringing her lantern to his cell, and it becomes the basis of his later dream of his mother, which changes Cersei to Joanna. Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 31 January 2017 at 11:20 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: Pretty cool. Thank you. I am getting interested in the ways there are all sorts of subtle links between chapters, not just foreshadowing but parallels and other stuff. For example, the Jaime chapter where he is back in KL coming to terms with the loss of his hand, duties as Lord Commander and other issues, has a section where he watches knights charging the quintain and then 'left it to the whole men' and walked away. This directly links to the Bran chapter where he is struggling with accepting his crippling and duties as the acting Prince of Winterfell. Hodor carries him to watch the Walders and visiting squires fighting the quintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 3/14/2016 at 11:03 AM, Lost Melnibonean said: Well argued. I'm not buying it, though. I can't see Tyrion becoming king, even if he can command Viserion and lock up Drogon and kill or lock up Rhaegal. Indeed Tyrion has zero political support in the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I guess Theon has paid the iron price? A Clash of Kings - Theon I "Yes, m'lord. As you command." She fled. After some time, they brought the hot water he had asked for. It was only tepid, and soon cold, and seawater in the bargain, but it served to wash the dust of the long ride from his face and hair and hands. While two thralls lit his braziers, Theon stripped off his travel-stained clothing and dressed to meet his father. He chose boots of supple black leather, soft lambswool breeches of silvery-grey, a black velvet doublet with the golden kraken of the Greyjoys embroidered on the breast. Around his throat he fastened a slender gold chain, around his waist a belt of bleached white leather. He hung a dirk at one hip and a longsword at the other, in scabbards striped black-and-gold. Drawing the dirk, he tested its edge with his thumb, pulled a whetstone from his belt pouch, and gave it a few licks. He prided himself on keeping his weapons sharp. "When I return, I shall expect a warm room and clean rushes," he warned the thralls as he drew on a pair of black gloves, the silk decorated with a delicate scrollwork tracery in golden thread. A Clash of Kings - Theon I "You will." Throwing off the furs, Lord Balon pushed himself to his feet. He was not so tall as Theon remembered. "That bauble around your neck—was it bought with gold or iron?" Theon touched the gold chain. He had forgotten. It has been so long . . . In the Old Way, women might decorate themselves with ornaments bought with coin, but a warrior wore only the jewelry he took off the corpses of enemies slain by his own hand. Paying the iron price, it was called. "You blush red as a maid, Theon. A question was asked. Is it the gold price you paid, or the iron?" "The gold," Theon admitted. A Dance with Dragons - The Prince of Winterfell But inside the godswood, the ground remained unfrozen, and steam rose off the hot pools, as warm as baby's breath. The bride was garbed in white and grey, the colors the true Arya would have worn had she lived long enough to wed. Theon wore black and gold, his cloak pinned to his shoulder by a crude iron kraken that a smith in Barrowton had hammered together for him. But under the hood, his hair was white and thin, and his flesh had an old man's greyish undertone. A Stark at last, he thought. (Blue emphasis mine, not GRRM's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 33 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: I guess Theon has paid the iron price? A Clash of Kings - Theon I "Yes, m'lord. As you command." She fled. After some time, they brought the hot water he had asked for. It was only tepid, and soon cold, and seawater in the bargain, but it served to wash the dust of the long ride from his face and hair and hands. While two thralls lit his braziers, Theon stripped off his travel-stained clothing and dressed to meet his father. He chose boots of supple black leather, soft lambswool breeches of silvery-grey, a black velvet doublet with the golden kraken of the Greyjoys embroidered on the breast. Around his throat he fastened a slender gold chain, around his waist a belt of bleached white leather. He hung a dirk at one hip and a longsword at the other, in scabbards striped black-and-gold. Drawing the dirk, he tested its edge with his thumb, pulled a whetstone from his belt pouch, and gave it a few licks. He prided himself on keeping his weapons sharp. "When I return, I shall expect a warm room and clean rushes," he warned the thralls as he drew on a pair of black gloves, the silk decorated with a delicate scrollwork tracery in golden thread. A Clash of Kings - Theon I "You will." Throwing off the furs, Lord Balon pushed himself to his feet. He was not so tall as Theon remembered. "That bauble around your neck—was it bought with gold or iron?" Theon touched the gold chain. He had forgotten. It has been so long . . . In the Old Way, women might decorate themselves with ornaments bought with coin, but a warrior wore only the jewelry he took off the corpses of enemies slain by his own hand. Paying the iron price, it was called. "You blush red as a maid, Theon. A question was asked. Is it the gold price you paid, or the iron?" "The gold," Theon admitted. A Dance with Dragons - The Prince of Winterfell But inside the godswood, the ground remained unfrozen, and steam rose off the hot pools, as warm as baby's breath. The bride was garbed in white and grey, the colors the true Arya would have worn had she lived long enough to wed. Theon wore black and gold, his cloak pinned to his shoulder by a crude iron kraken that a smith in Barrowton had hammered together for him. But under the hood, his hair was white and thin, and his flesh had an old man's greyish undertone. A Stark at last, he thought. (Blue emphasis mine, not GRRM's) No. He paid the flesh price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 5:23 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: I Here’s what will happen at Summerhall! The Mystery Knight Dunk will choose the former... II Glendon Ball will be one of Aegon’s Seven with Ser Duncan the Tall... The Mystery Knight The lad was Glendon Ball. That would be nice to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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