tombru Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I was re-reading Game of thrones and i noticed something for the first time. When dany is giving the weapons that were her wedding gifts to her bloodriders, she tells Jorah that she doesn't have anything now but one day she will give him a valyrian steel sword greater than any the world has ever seen. I feel like this is definitely fore-shadowing. Because if this I think that Jorah will survive or die right at the end of the series fighting white walkers (possibly saving Dany's life) with Longclaw, a valyrian steel sword that was made using dragon fire or some other important sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidsa Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 That was before she found out he betrayed her. The only sword she will give him now is the one that will take off his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 My money is on Heartsbane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Glad King Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, tombru said: I was re-reading Game of thrones and i noticed something for the first time. When dany is giving the weapons that were her wedding gifts to her bloodriders, she tells Jorah that she doesn't have anything now but one day she will give him a valyrian steel sword greater than any the world has ever seen. I feel like this is definitely fore-shadowing. Because if this I think that Jorah will survive or die right at the end of the series fighting white walkers (possibly saving Dany's life) with Longclaw, a valyrian steel sword that was made using dragon fire or some other important sword. Dude, that fits in perfect with the theory that Jorah is Azor Ahai! If you haven't heard about it yet, MatPat explains it really well in this video. If we assume valyrian steel is in fact the dragon steel that Sam read about, then he might use the sword to pwn some others. Of course though, that's just a theory... a tinfoil theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I'm a big fan of the swords and spend some time now and then matching all the VS to characters I think could potentially wield them. Some of my musings are based on characteristics of the sword or the character. Most are simple logistics. I even made a silly spreadsheet to help me figure it out. I think that Dany has to give Jorah a sword. He is pretty fierce and fearless and would make a fine member of the 12 companions. There was a sword named Truth that Aegon IV's mother's family possessed in Lys. Chrisdaw's idea about Heartsbane was my 1st choice as it fits our love sick knight so well. Most popular idea is that Dany will head to Pentos in her quest for Westeros. If you follow the map, Lys is the farthest south point before landing right in Dorne. Lys is almost at the same place south that Pentos is to the north. If we all agree that Dany will continue to head west she could just as easily head south over new territory and launch from Lys. It doesn't even have to be Lys, just that general area as I think the Rogare family is long gone. If you're picking swords for names, Truth is lovely for Jorah at the end of his betrayal and penance. Dany finding Truth is not my idea, but from the moment I read it, I thought it was great. And why would this sword in Essos that was only related to Westeros in the marriage of a Targaryan King to a Lysenni noble woman constantly merit mention in the names of the Westerosi VS? Truth, to the best of my knowledge, never left Lys. Truth is very much considered a Westeros sword and Dany having to see it gets to Westeros just fits for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, chrisdaw said: My money is on Heartsbane. Only if its taking his head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 There's too good a chance that he never leaves Astapor alive. Daario and Victarion want Dany's tender body as much as Jorah does, and Barristan has no love for him, either. And there's a chance he gets burnt up by one of the extra dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombru Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 30 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: There's too good a chance that he never leaves Astapor alive That could be true but I feel like what Dany said was to specific for it not to mean something. Even if he does die soon, I think he is going to get a valyrian sword somewhere before that, even if he has it for a very short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 "It's that white sword of yours I want," the robber knight told him as they resumed, though he was bleeding from a dozen wounds by then. "Then you shall have it, ser," the Sword of the Morning replied, and made an end of it. I'm not saying this is what is going to happen between Dany and Jorah, but it's certainly a possibility. Jorah may get back Longclaw, but it does not seem right that Dany should give it to him because Dany has nothing to do with Longclaw. So if he gets a sword from Dany, it's probably a different sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naik2902 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Blackfyre ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 22 hours ago, tombru said: I was re-reading Game of thrones and i noticed something for the first time. When dany is giving the weapons that were her wedding gifts to her bloodriders, she tells Jorah that she doesn't have anything now but one day she will give him a valyrian steel sword greater than any the world has ever seen. I feel like this is definitely fore-shadowing. Because if this I think that Jorah will survive or die right at the end of the series fighting white walkers (possibly saving Dany's life) with Longclaw, a valyrian steel sword that was made using dragon fire or some other important sword. To me, this opens up the possibility that Dany can glimpse the future. She saw herself bestowing a V/S sword to Jorah. The "like no other" doesn't necessarily mean anything since Dany herself is not an expert on weaponry. She meant the sword was special. Perhaps Jorah will get one of the two historically significant swords of House Targaryen, Darksister and Blackfyre. I'm guessing Blackfyre. If Jorah marries Dany, it is only right that he should get Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 IF he manages to get back into her graces I'll bet it's Longclaw since Jon will wield Dawn. But that's a big "if". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaesterP Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 On March 4, 2016 at 8:58 PM, Curled Finger said: I'm a big fan of the swords and spend some time now and then matching all the VS to characters I think could potentially wield them. Some of my musings are based on characteristics of the sword or the character. Most are simple logistics. I even made a silly spreadsheet to help me figure it out. I think that Dany has to give Jorah a sword. He is pretty fierce and fearless and would make a fine member of the 12 companions. There was a sword named Truth that Aegon IV's mother's family possessed in Lys. Chrisdaw's idea about Heartsbane was my 1st choice as it fits our love sick knight so well. Most popular idea is that Dany will head to Pentos in her quest for Westeros. If you follow the map, Lys is the farthest south point before landing right in Dorne. Lys is almost at the same place south that Pentos is to the north. If we all agree that Dany will continue to head west she could just as easily head south over new territory and launch from Lys. It doesn't even have to be Lys, just that general area as I think the Rogare family is long gone. If you're picking swords for names, Truth is lovely for Jorah at the end of his betrayal and penance. Dany finding Truth is not my idea, but from the moment I read it, I thought it was great. And why would this sword in Essos that was only related to Westeros in the marriage of a Targaryan King to a Lysenni noble woman constantly merit mention in the names of the Westerosi VS? Truth, to the best of my knowledge, never left Lys. Truth is very much considered a Westeros sword and Dany having to see it gets to Westeros just fits for me. The VS swords, their journeys, and names are one of may favorite parts about the books. Would love to see a large post on all the swords and where you think they may be going. : ) i think Truth would be most plausible for Jorah. I don't see him ever making it back to Longclaw and his old life. Even if he makes it back to Westeros and plays a role in defeating the other, and lives through it, far too much time has gone by and I don't think the Jorah that returns will ever return to The North, to Longclaw or to Bear Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Lady Forlorn - Sandor Caggo's Valyrian Arakh - Rakharo Nightfall - Garlan Valyrian Axe - Victarion? Hotah? Tyrion? Brightroar is a greatsword so unsuitable for one handed Jaime or dwarf Tyrion. But Jaime is going to need a VS weapon. Dark Sister - Arya Red Rain - Loras? Oathkeeper - Brienne to the end Blackfyre - Jon. Arya or Sansa are going to steal it and give it to someone, maybe multiple times. Aegon to Tyrion or Aegon to Jon. Or Dany to Tyrion. Or Tyrion to Jon. Heartsbane, Widow's Wail, Longclaw - ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Cold Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: Lady Forlorn - Sandor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 hours ago, chrisdaw said: Lady Forlorn - Sandor Caggo's Valyrian Arakh - Rakharo Nightfall - Garlan Valyrian Axe - Victarion? Hotah? Tyrion? Brightroar is a greatsword so unsuitable for one handed Jaime or dwarf Tyrion. But Jaime is going to need a VS weapon. Dark Sister - Arya Red Rain - Loras? Oathkeeper - Brienne to the end Blackfyre - Jon. Arya or Sansa are going to steal it and give it to someone, maybe multiple times. Aegon to Tyrion or Aegon to Jon. Or Dany to Tyrion. Or Tyrion to Jon. Heartsbane, Widow's Wail, Longclaw - ??? Nice, chrisdaw--your Iron Island swords aren't awarded to any potentially worthy Ironborn. I take it you don't see Asha or Theon in the final 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I certainly think that Dany will accept Jorah back into her graces because she loves him (platonically). Their relationship is the most important one in her life so far. It's a very deep friendship (with inconvenient one-sided romantic feelings). Dany is hot for Daario but doesn't respect or love him very much. The opposite is true of Jorah. It would be nice if she gave him a VS sword as promised but I don't see it. I expect he will "inherit" longclaw from Jon if he survives to the point where Dany and the North/NW remnants are fighting against The Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think that in the end Jon will end up with Lightbringer (Dark Sister or Dawn), and he will give Jorah is family sword back. Jorah will have Longclaw (with a new handle courtesy of Daenerys) and he will be the 1000th LC of the Night Watch (thought the Wall will be gone and the True North will be part of the Kingdom now, the Watch will move further North and guard the lands of Man, and protect the Free Men.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 18 hours ago, MaesterP said: The VS swords, their journeys, and names are one of may favorite parts about the books. Would love to see a large post on all the swords and where you think they may be going. : ) i think Truth would be most plausible for Jorah. I don't see him ever making it back to Longclaw and his old life. Even if he makes it back to Westeros and plays a role in defeating the other, and lives through it, far too much time has gone by and I don't think the Jorah that returns will ever return to The North, to Longclaw or to Bear Island. Thanks, Maester P.--there just are not enough sword geeks in this place! The swords are integral to the North, The Long Night and The Last Hero. I'm sure all the VS swords and their heroes will make it North, beyond the Wall, so don't count Longclaw out for Jorah at all. I think our Jorah has already had Longclaw and proven himself unworthy. His current quest for Dany is redeeming his standing in her world, not the Mormont's. So I don't see him with Longclaw, but what do I know? It just makes thematic sense to me that he should get the sword that needs to return (if it was ever actually in) to Westeros. And I agree with you wholeheartedly that Jorah will be greatly changed upon his return to the North. He is a far cry from that dishonorable lovesick fool who was exiled. He will be a true hero worthy of whatever VS finds him. Motivation aside, Jorah is one of the few burly men who could actually wield a greatsword. Chrisdaw mentioned greatwswords upthread. Just to get a visual on these beasts, a greatsword is 5 to 6' long, 4 to 6" wide. They are monsters. Even with a lighter valyrian material, they are freaking heavy and awkward. I suspect Ned is a much larger man than many of us believe. When I ponder the wielder of some monster like Heartsbane, women, children, chubby guys named Sam and disabled characters are completely out of the running. They simply couldn't move the thing. We have 2 smaller blades, Dark Sister and Widow's Wail, I suspect. I reserve these for the smaller women/larger children. A big strong woman like Brienne has no equal among her gender, but even Oathkeeper is only a long sword. I'm not sure that Asha has Brienne's brute strength, but she does carry an axe and I sort of like her for one of the VS long swords. When considering the swords I have to keep in mind that there are only 12. Brightroar and Lamentation are lost specifically and have been replaced with WW & OK. (But I sure would enjoy Euron suddenly showing up with Brightroar to complete his magic toy collection). Still, the wording is lost whereas Orphanmaker, Dark Sister, Blackfyre and Truth are listed as "whereabouts unknown". The point is that only 12 VS swords will end up at endgame. Orphanmaker currently has me stumped as I have no idea who the 10 men who killed Jonathan Roxton could be. Then there is that mystifying moonstone pommel Nightfall sports. So, Maester P, while this was a long post, I've only got 2 swords I'm absolutely convinced will end up with 2 characters I'm certain of. While I'm mostly convinced of at least 6 or 7 more heroes, the VS match up is strictly by location or blade size and twisted logic, such as Jorah and Truth. I'm still learning how to jump that "all the heroes will die" hurdle. I wish we had a place strictly for the purpose of matching the swords to the heroes but even specific topics offer up interesting ideas. So thanks very much for opening this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 14 hours ago, Curled Finger said: Nice, chrisdaw--your Iron Island swords aren't awarded to any potentially worthy Ironborn. I take it you don't see Asha or Theon in the final 12? I do but they're not big on swords, and Nightfall will definitely be Garlan's for a time at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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