Is Bran The Three-Eyed Crow?!??

[Vhailin]

A user mentioned in another thread that in the television adaption, during the scene where Bran has an arrow aimed at the 3EC, Jojen appears and tells Bran that he can't kill it because the 3EC is him... Could this be the case in the books? I know you can't really compare the show to the books, nevertheless, Tweddledee and Tweddledum wouldn't make drastic changes to the storyline without Mr. Martin's consent, if it concerned one of the central mysteries of the series.

When Bran's meets the 3EC for the first time in his dream, after he goes into a coma, the 3EC's speech didn't have any quotation marks (that is, until Bran looked deep into the Heart of Winter, and then noticed the crow now had a third eye). Could it have been Bran's own thoughts? When Bran meets BR and asks him if he is the crow, BR assumes Bran is asking him whether he used to be in the Night's Watch.

BQ: What was the significance of the 3EC pecking Bran to make him 'forget' about the golden face (Jaime Lannister) that appeared in his dream? 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Bran is the winged wolf .

[Clegane'sPup]

Before chiming in I did a double take.  The original post is from 2016. Yet, it could stir some interesting dialogue.

I haven’t been privy to the terms, conditions, contracts or private conversations between Martin and D &D. I would venture to say that there are going to be some major deviations betwixt the two.

I look at it like this. Bran is in a coma. His body is dying and his mind in is trying to work out what is going on. The three eyed crow (Bloodraven) intervenes. BR shows Bran why he must live (wake up).

I’ve mentioned this before. If BR had shown this child what he actually looked like it would have scared the boy. In DwD BR said he had been watching Bran for a long time. In Bran’s mind the voice that is speaking with him is a three eyed crow. The third eye contained terrible knowledge, as in more than the boy could understand or comprehend.

When I look at the quote it seems to me that Bran is having what some people call an out of body experience. Bran sees himself.

Quote

 

"You have wings," Bran pointed out.

Maybe you do too.

Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers.

There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.

Bran was staring at his arms, his legs. He was so skinny, just skin stretched taut over bones. Had he always been so thin? He tried to remember. A face swam up at him out of the grey mist, shining with light, golden. "The things I do for love," it said.

Bran screamed.

The crow took to the air, cawing. Not that, it shrieked at him. Forget that, you do not need it now, put it aside, put it away. It landed on Bran's shoulder, and pecked at him, and the shining golden face was gone.

 

Why doesn’t the three eyed crow want Bran to remember the shining golden face?

It would have changed the story. If Bran remembered who caused his fall he would tell his mother. His mother would find a way to tell Eddard. Eddard would tell Robert. Robert would say the boy is mistaken or Robert would have Jaime & Cersei beheaded for treason and it wouldn’t have taken five books to get Bran to BR.

When the Reed kids show up at WF Jojen says this about the third eye:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV

"You have three. The crow gave you the third, but you will not open it." He had a slow soft way of speaking. "With two eyes you see my face. With three you could see my heart. With two you can see that oak tree there. With three you could see the acorn the oak grew from and the stump that it will one day become. With two you see no farther than your walls. With three you would gaze south to the Summer Sea and north beyond the Wall."

 

Could the above quote be a description of what Martin refers to as a greenseer?

BTW what does BQ mean?

[John Suburbs]

lol, Bonus Question.

My take on the whole thing is that Bran, BR, the 3EC and virtually everyone and everything that can tap into the wiernet are one -- that is, they develop a collective mind by gaining access to the memories of all that have gone before. So once Bran becomes a true greenseer, he will have access to the memories of BR appearing as the 3EC in the coma dream, so ultimately it is Bran/BR/everyone reaching out to coma Bran to help him open his third eye.

That was the point of the crow pecking into Bran's forehead, BTW. First, to get him past the tragedy of his fall from the tower, then, after Bran has learned to fly, to open his third eye. And, of course, it was immediately after that he awoke from the coma.

[Curled Finger]

This 3EC is the vehicle in Bran's subconsciousness.  I know there are tons of people who think BR can reach across thousands of miles to give dreams, skin change and cause general havoc.    I don't buy it.   There must be levels and boundaries to power and magic or there is no struggle to triumph.   Limitless power would render the game won, take your ball and go home.   Winterfell is what?  1000 miles from Bloodraven's cave?   Bran is in a coma, which may have made him  vulnerable to communication and the bird, the 3EC, is simply the form BR takes to communicate.   He's a raven in more than 1 place so why not here in Bran's dreams or consciousness between life and death?   

There has been discussion regarding Bran actually being the 3EC.   I don't think so.  Like magic and power HBO has limits to their ability to tell this tale.   There have been plenty of major diversions from the books.   Both D&D and Martin say they will get to the same ending by different means.   So sure, GRRM would probably happily allow some serious alternate scenarios in the show particularly since there is no book in play now.  There was an interview last year with the D's wherein they stated that Martin clued them in on 3 "Holy Sh**" moments.   1 was the burning of Shireen, the 2nd was the meaning of Hodor's name and an unmentioned 3rd thing.  I assume this thing is yet to come.   So I've quit predicting anything for the books based in the show that isn't included in that list.   And I'm happy to watch again because I don't really think much is getting spoiled.  

Euron had a dream about flying when he was young.   Could he have been communicated with by BR or another powerful greenseer? Sure, why not?  He's been far enough away from BR to receive the Bran treatment.     

[rotting sea cow]

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

This 3EC is the vehicle in Bran's subconsciousness.  I know there are tons of people who think BR can reach across thousands of miles to give dreams, skin change and cause general havoc.    I don't buy it.   There must be levels and boundaries to power and magic or there is no struggle to triumph.   Limitless power would render the game won, take your ball and go home.

I agree here, but even he can do many of these things he cannot do it simultaneously and thus unable to control everything. There must be also limits in how to access the information and/or influence people. The wildings give some clues about it. They go for example to places without trees to do things secretly. Gilly thinks that nobody watches her out in the sea, etc. Also, warging people seems to be forbidden for a reason.

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Euron had a dream about flying when he was young.   Could he have been communicated with by BR or another powerful greenseer? Sure, why not?  He's been far enough away from BR to receive the Bran treatment.     

It is strongly implied that Euron is partially a BR failure.

[Clegane'sPup]

On 1/19/2017 at 2:52 PM, John Suburbs said:

lol, Bonus Question.

Damn, I shoulda guessed. I often needed the extra points from some of those bonus questions.

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I know there are tons of people who think BR can reach across thousands of miles to give dreams, skin change and cause general havoc.  I don't buy it.  

I agree with you.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

It is strongly implied that Euron is partially a BR failure.

um, I dunna know, seems to me he is loco and strung out on da juice.