Jon's "dragon blood", does it matter?

[BlueNightzx]

First, i would like to share some considerations about whe writing style of george based on readings and interviews with george

-George likes foreshadowing
-George likes to write horror
-George likes to smash trope

With that said, does it really matter if jon is indeed the son of rhaegar?
during the 5 books, George give us time and time again signs tha jon is a "true" northman, with strong old men blood, he is an warg, his face is more like ned stark than robb or Bran, his has and the symbol of he getting the direwolf, in the books its said that the gods send the wolves for the "stark children" and jon gets one too, a symbol of his stark blood if not full blown status.as one.

and in the case of the stark children, looks matter, we see how robb, the elder and heir of ned stark, who tries very hard to emulate his father, fails, his tully blood speaks louder, he's impulsive, has a temper and is not able to sacrifice his honor when he needs to
jon in that sense is like ned, who was "cold water" for blood, the "icy eyes".

not only that, but jon burn his hand, while in the same book, we get to see how daenerys is very tolerant to fire and heat, bein able to touch the dragons egg while her servants get burned

ok ok, everyone knows that, whats your point?

my point is, like bloodraven, who is a targ bastard with oldmen's blood, jon has no trace of targ in him, people think when jon finds out  (IF he finds out and IF indeed he is a son of rhaegar) he will sprout dragon wings and breath fire on his enemies, no no, NO

Jon is not the song of ice and fire

in norse mythology, the bond between son and uncle appears a lot, so in tolkiens work, Frodo and bilbo, Thorin and fili/kili, in an away Elrond and aragorn (aragorn is from an lineage that started with elrond's brother, so he's like a very very distand nephew), and how those nephews admired and wanted to emulate their uncles, neglecting their fathers.
jon is the ice dragon, he will not forsake the north, the ice in him, he will never forsake eddard stark

its frustating watching what people say about some  characters, the utter nonsense, its the same thing with tyrion, we have 5 books in wich george give us at every turn evidence that tyrion is the only child of tywin who thinks like him, who has the same intellectual prowess, calm but ruthless, and by the end, when we get tywin with shae, we get to see that tywin was also like tyrion, who enjoyed whores and wine, so what makes tywin so angry with tyrion is that he is a mirror, a grotesque reflection of himself, and he wants to jaime to be his reflection, not tyrion, and he hates his son for that

but no, fuck the foreshadowing, fuckin character devolepment, tyrion must be a fuckin targaryen beucase its sounds cool.

As george  says "prophecies are tricky" i believe people like to think that rhaegar was perfect in his interpretation, but what if rhaegar was just another targaryen lunatic and lyanna a foolish teenager who fell in love just because the prince was handsome? it would be very fitting with george writing style, the "meaningless"of someone's life,  the "comisc terror"hp lovecraft style, jon turns to be an person who will fight AGAINST the targaryens instead, like the childrens book he wrote, the ice dragon, when an ice dragon fight,and kill the fire breathing dragons, and ends up melting into a pool of cold water, and in the end azor ahai is no targaryen at all,

all the animals will die, included the dragons, and onlu the wolves will remain

people think this will end in fire, i say it will end in ice.
 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I cannot understand what you mean. You are trying to say that you don't like when the other readers think about something or if Jon's parentage will be an important part for the story in the future?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

25 minutes ago, BlueNightzx said:

First, i would like to share some considerations about whe writing style of george based on readings and interviews with george

-George likes foreshadowing
-George likes to write horror
-George likes to smash trope

With that said, does it really matter if jon is indeed the son of rhaegar?
during the 5 books, George give us time and time again signs tha jon is a "true" northman, with strong old men blood, he is an warg, his face is more like ned stark than robb or Bran, his has and the symbol of he getting the direwolf, in the books its said that the gods send the wolves for the "stark children" and jon gets one too, a symbol of his stark blood if not full blown status.as one.

and in the case of the stark children, looks matter, we see how robb, the elder and heir of ned stark, who tries very hard to emulate his father, fails, his tully blood speaks louder, he's impulsive, has a temper and is not able to sacrifice his honor when he needs to
jon in that sense is like ned, who was "cold water" for blood, the "icy eyes".

not only that, but jon burn his hand, while in the same book, we get to see how daenerys is very tolerant to fire and heat, bein able to touch the dragons egg while her servants get burned

ok ok, everyone knows that, whats your point?

my point is, like bloodraven, who is a targ bastard with oldmen's blood, jon has no trace of targ in him, people think when jon finds out  (IF he finds out and IF indeed he is a son of rhaegar) he will sprout dragon wings and breath fire on his enemies, no no, NO

Jon is not the song of ice and fire

in norse mythology, the bond between son and uncle appears a lot, so in tolkiens work, Frodo and bilbo, Thorin and fili/kili, in an away Elrond and aragorn (aragorn is from an lineage that started with elrond's brother, so he's like a very very distand nephew), and how those nephews admired and wanted to emulate their uncles, neglecting their fathers.
jon is the ice dragon, he will not forsake the north, the ice in him, he will never forsake eddard stark

its frustating watching what people say about some  characters, the utter nonsense, its the same thing with tyrion, we have 5 books in wich george give us at every turn evidence that tyrion is the only child of tywin who thinks like him, who has the same intellectual prowess, calm but ruthless, and by the end, when we get tywin with shae, we get to see that tywin was also like tyrion, who enjoyed whores and wine, so what makes tywin so angry with tyrion is that he is a mirror, a grotesque reflection of himself, and he wants to jaime to be his reflection, not tyrion, and he hates his son for that

but no, fuck the foreshadowing, fuckin character devolepment, tyrion must be a fuckin targaryen beucase its sounds cool.

As george  says "prophecies are tricky" i believe people like to think that rhaegar was perfect in his interpretation, but what if rhaegar was just another targaryen lunatic and lyanna a foolish teenager who fell in love just because the prince was handsome? it would be very fitting with george writing style, the "meaningless"of someone's life,  the "comisc terror"hp lovecraft style, jon turns to be an person who will fight AGAINST the targaryens instead, like the childrens book he wrote, the ice dragon, when an ice dragon fight,and kill the fire breathing dragons, and ends up melting into a pool of cold water, and in the end azor ahai is no targaryen at all,

all the animals will die, included the dragons, and onlu the wolves will remain

people think this will end in fire, i say it will end in ice.
 

Jon Snow's real father will be important because it'll be important to him 

His false father lied to him all his life 

He's part of a family that's brought misery on the Starks 

his father kidnapped his mother and raped her 

his paternal grandfather burned his other grandfather and  killed his other uncle 

He isn't some Stark bastard. He's a Targaryen and his false father let him believe all his life that he was some bastard despite how deeply that affected him as well let him take vows for the NW

Jon's entire self-image will shatter.

The only reason he even joined the NW was to make his dad proud and make himself worthy of being a Stark in his father's eyes 

[Bran the Shipper]

I am currently living in denial and think that Jon is dead and won't be coming back. 

Thus his parentage isn't important to him, but it is still important to someone, Daenerys.  When she finds out that the love her brother died for was a Stark girl, and that said love was reciprocated, her opinion of the Starks will soften.  Add on top of that that this girl's brother went so far as to pretend the child was his just to keep her nephew safe, and that the brother's children treated said nephew as if he were their own sibling.  And I see Daenerys forgiving the Stark line for their actions in regard to the destruction of the rest of her family.

[Ygrain]

GRRM wouldn't have written Jon as Rhaegar's son if it didn't matter in some way. 

BTW, you keep mixing books and their screen adaptations. No-one gets their hands burnt on a dragon egg in the books, and book Daenerys has bad burns on her hands at the end of ADWD. Book Fili/Kili don't show any special relationship with Thorin, either, until the very end when they defend him at the cost of their lives in battle (which, onthe other hand, film totally screwed), which hardly counts as admiring and emulating. Also, I don't see how Frodo or Aragorn neglected their fathers who died when both were children. 

 

[Raisin' Bran]

4 hours ago, BlueNightzx said:

people think this will end in fire, i say it will end in ice.
 

Can't it end in both ice and fire? Can't Jon still act like a Stark with his icy eyes and all while still acknowledging what good he can do as a Targ?

You make it sound like Jon is going to not care about his father being a royal because he was brought up as a bastard son of the Warden of the North? 

Some people do completely care about their biologic ancestry, because, "reasons". While others reject it because, "reasons". 

It could really go multiple ways. And if Jon does find out, there will likely be a lot of inner turmoil for Jon to sort out. In the end Jon will likely do "whatever is right".

[WhitewolfStark]

6 hours ago, BlueNightzx said:

First, i would like to share some considerations about whe writing style of george based on readings and interviews with george

-George likes foreshadowing
-George likes to write horror
-George likes to smash trope

With that said, does it really matter if jon is indeed the son of rhaegar?
during the 5 books, George give us time and time again signs tha jon is a "true" northman, with strong old men blood, he is an warg, his face is more like ned stark than robb or Bran, his has and the symbol of he getting the direwolf, in the books its said that the gods send the wolves for the "stark children" and jon gets one too, a symbol of his stark blood if not full blown status.as one.

and in the case of the stark children, looks matter, we see how robb, the elder and heir of ned stark, who tries very hard to emulate his father, fails, his tully blood speaks louder, he's impulsive, has a temper and is not able to sacrifice his honor when he needs to
jon in that sense is like ned, who was "cold water" for blood, the "icy eyes".

not only that, but jon burn his hand, while in the same book, we get to see how daenerys is very tolerant to fire and heat, bein able to touch the dragons egg while her servants get burned

ok ok, everyone knows that, whats your point?

my point is, like bloodraven, who is a targ bastard with oldmen's blood, jon has no trace of targ in him, people think when jon finds out  (IF he finds out and IF indeed he is a son of rhaegar) he will sprout dragon wings and breath fire on his enemies, no no, NO

Jon is not the song of ice and fire

in norse mythology, the bond between son and uncle appears a lot, so in tolkiens work, Frodo and bilbo, Thorin and fili/kili, in an away Elrond and aragorn (aragorn is from an lineage that started with elrond's brother, so he's like a very very distand nephew), and how those nephews admired and wanted to emulate their uncles, neglecting their fathers.
jon is the ice dragon, he will not forsake the north, the ice in him, he will never forsake eddard stark

its frustating watching what people say about some  characters, the utter nonsense, its the same thing with tyrion, we have 5 books in wich george give us at every turn evidence that tyrion is the only child of tywin who thinks like him, who has the same intellectual prowess, calm but ruthless, and by the end, when we get tywin with shae, we get to see that tywin was also like tyrion, who enjoyed whores and wine, so what makes tywin so angry with tyrion is that he is a mirror, a grotesque reflection of himself, and he wants to jaime to be his reflection, not tyrion, and he hates his son for that

but no, fuck the foreshadowing, fuckin character devolepment, tyrion must be a fuckin targaryen beucase its sounds cool.

As george  says "prophecies are tricky" i believe people like to think that rhaegar was perfect in his interpretation, but what if rhaegar was just another targaryen lunatic and lyanna a foolish teenager who fell in love just because the prince was handsome? it would be very fitting with george writing style, the "meaningless"of someone's life,  the "comisc terror"hp lovecraft style, jon turns to be an person who will fight AGAINST the targaryens instead, like the childrens book he wrote, the ice dragon, when an ice dragon fight,and kill the fire breathing dragons, and ends up melting into a pool of cold water, and in the end azor ahai is no targaryen at all,

all the animals will die, included the dragons, and onlu the wolves will remain

people think this will end in fire, i say it will end in ice.
 

Fire and Ice

By Robert Frost

Some say the world will end in fire,

Some say in ice.

From what I’ve tasted of desire

I hold with those who favor fire.

But if it had to perish twice,

I think I know enough of hate

To say that for destruction ice

Is also great

And would suffice.

 

Martin also reflect[ed] on why his series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, saying, “People say I was influenced by Robert Frost’s poem, and of course I was, I mean… Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.”

 

https://yabookreviewer.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/game-of-thrones-author-george-r-r-martin-reveals-winds-of-winter-details-and-more/

 

 

Given the above, I wonder sometimes at people thinking either one or the other must "prevail" against the other, considering that both Fire and Ice are threatening to destroy the world respectively. Given what I'm learning from Martin--I don't think we're supposed to be cheering on either Fire or Ice, but rather those caught in between the two.

[chrisdaw]

Blood lines and blood of the dragon matters to Dany, when she battles and defeats Aegon because he is an imposter it will be even more relevant, Jon is her rightful king. JC lives only to seat Rhaegar's son on the Iron throne, it matters to him. It may also matter to Jaime given his guilt towards failing Rhaegar.

Tyrion being the son of Aerys suits where his arc is headed. He currently has no choice but to accept he is Tywin's son, when he discovers that might not be so he then has a choice in the matter. Two options, Lannister vs Targaryen, like the massive dream GRRM shoved into ADWD where Tyrion had two heads, one all fire and blood revelling in killing Lannisters and the other weeping over dead Lannisters. Dany or Jaime, which sibling does he betray? Pivotal questions, high drama, there's a fucking story there.

[Lord Lannister]

This seems more an angry rant colored by what the original poster wants than an objective analysis.

[KINGpanther]

4 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I am currently living in denial and think that Jon is dead and won't be coming back. 

Thus his parentage isn't important to him, but it is still important to someone, Daenerys.  When she finds out that the love her brother died for was a Stark girl, and that said love was reciprocated, her opinion of the Starks will soften.  Add on top of that that this girl's brother went so far as to pretend the child was his just to keep her nephew safe, and that the brother's children treated said nephew as if he were their own sibling.  And I see Daenerys forgiving the Stark line for their actions in regard to the destruction of the rest of her family.

I think it is likly Daenerys will learn of Jon's true heritage before Jon in some way and when she learns of 1 of the userpers dogs protecting a member of her family from Robert Baratheon, she will forgive the Starks.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

This seems more an angry rant colored by what the original poster wants than an objective analysis.

13 hours ago, BlueNightzx said:

Elrond and aragorn (aragorn is from an lineage that started with elrond's brother, so he's like a very very distand nephew), and how those nephews admired and wanted to emulate their uncles, neglecting their fathers.
jon is the ice dragon, he will not forsake the north, the ice in him, he will never forsake eddard stark
 

After Aranarth's son Arahael all the sons of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain were fostered in Rivendell. Aragorn's case isn't so special. What it was special is that he fall in love with Arwen and he actually claimed the Throne because Elrond told him that he couldn't marry her until he became the King of the reunited kingdom of Arnor and Gondor. Also unlike your examples Ned isn't just Jon's uncle he is his father. As he said “He is not my father. The thought leapt unbidden to Jon's mind. Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me."

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I think its interesting that Jon will be kind of obsidian, frozen fire.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

19 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I think its interesting that Jon will be kind of obsidian, frozen fire.

I have absolutely never thought about it. It is really amazing! 

[Ygrain]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

After Aranarth's son Arahael all the sons of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain were fostered in Rivendell. Aragorn's case isn't so special. What it was special is that he fall in love with Arwen and he actually claimed the Throne because Elrond told him that he couldn't marry her until he became the King of the reunited kingdom of Arnor and Gondor. 

Wasn't he the only one who was raised in ignorance of his true heritage?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

22 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Wasn't he the only one who was raised in ignorance of his true heritage?

True enough. I had forgotten about that. He learnt the truth when he was a child in Dúnedain years, around 20, but I can guess that he didn't thought that he was an elf so he couldn't think Elrond as his father  uncle. So he would look him more like a ward than a nephew.

[Ygrain]

4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

True enough. I had forgotten about that. He learnt the truth when he was a child in Dúnedain years, around 20, but I can guess that he didn't thought that he was an elf so he couldn't think Elrond as his father. So he would look him more like a ward than a nephew.

Lol, 'mommy, why don't I have pointy ears like papa Elrond?'

IIRC, he is somewhere referenced as a foster son or something like that, dofinitely not as nephew.

5 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I think its interesting that Jon will be kind of obsidian, frozen fire.

Encased in an armour of black ice, right? :-)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

22 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Lol, 'mommy, why don't I have pointy ears like papa Elrond?'

IIRC, he is somewhere referenced as a foster son or something like that, dofinitely not as nephew.

Encased in an armour of black ice, right? :-)

 my mistake I meant uncle not father.

In any case, I believe that Jon willl be more interesting about who is his mother than who is his sperm donor.

[RobOsevens]

The series is called a song of ice and fire Jon has the potential to be of both fire and ice... we know there is a mystery about his parentage... seems like his parents and potential mix may be pretty 

[Maxxine]

Jon parentage has to matter, whether he ends up being Rhaegar's son or not. Otherwise, why make it such a big mystery. If and when Jon finds out he's a Targ, it's going to have an effect. I don't think it necessarily means that he's going to change his demeanor, but there's going to be an effect. It's going to affect him emotionally and may have an impact on other characters as well. How is Arya going if/when she finds out Jon is not actually her brother? How is Dany going to feel if/when she finds out that she has another relative out there? How will the realm react if they find out there's another Targ and he is the son of the beloved Rhaegar? His lineage is going to be important even if doesn't change the person he is. So yeah his potential "dragon blood" matters.

[BalerionTheCat]

Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. IMO, there are enough evidences of that. No need of purple eyes or unnatural resistance to fire. This means Jon is the only one person with a strong heritage from both the Targaryens dragon lords stuff, whatever; and the Stark First Men Old Gods stuff, whatever, as evidenced by the direwolves attributed to all Ned children, and Jon. Jon with a special one BTW.

And the whole series happen to be named "A Song of Ice and Fire", while Rhaegar tells Elia the prince has this for song. So it must be fucking important. Except the real Aegon is dead or had not the right mother.

He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.