Lord Greenhood Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Theon/Reek is GRRM version of Sméagol/Gollum, sry to tired to write out the connections but you can probably spot them on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Lord Greenhood said: Theon/Reek is GRRM version of Sméagol/Gollum, sry to tired to write out the connections but you can probably spot them on your own He is unresistingly drawn toward that one true ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I just (and I mean just) realized Tallard the Tall has nothing to do with House Tallhart. Been thinking he's a prisoner similar to the Redwynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 5 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said: I just (and I mean just) realized Tallard the Tall has nothing to do with House Tallhart. Been thinking he's a prisoner similar to the Redwynes It's Tallad, as in "tall lad." (Yes, "tall lad" the tall.) I think GRRM's making a joke with his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesnow Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 *The quote function decided to act really weird- attempting to fix it Quote ... I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon." That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me." "Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not." AGOT Cat II I was rereading the first book and I had never realized this quote was in Cat's chapter. I always had assumed that this was something Eddard said in his head remembering it myself- he typically isn't too vocal about his insecurities. It just feels so strange that he is saying this out loud to his wife- I mean, I guess its a good thing that he can be that honest with her- but that just the mention of his brother's name makes him react like this makes me look at Eddard a little different than before. This quote was proceeded by this earlier in the chapter: Quote The wind swirled around him as he stood facing the dark, naked and empty-handed. Catelyn pulled the furs to her chin and watched him. He looked somehow smaller and more vulnerable, like the youth she had wed in the sept at Riverrun, fifteen long years gone. I feel Cat is very good at reading his emotion even though he tries to act the stoic. I think it would have been interesting to have more chapters between the two of them before it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayc Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I think brienne and Pretty Meris are sisters. Brienne talking to Pod mentioned growing up her father had a new wife every year. Similar physical appearance. Both seem naive, blindly follow orders. Both now have similar physical scars to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Correct me if I am wrong, but, with the possible exception of Hodor, there are no Walder in the story not related to House Frey, are there? Why shouldn't we assume that Old Nan is related to House Frey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Correct me if I am wrong, but, with the possible exception of Hodor, there are no Walder in the story not related to House Frey, are there? Why shouldn't we assume that Old Nan is related to House Frey? Wanted to say, that I once looked into the possibility that Nan & Hodor were somehow connected to Walderan Tarbeck. Didn't pan out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Correct me if I am wrong, but, with the possible exception of Hodor, there are no Walder in the story not related to House Frey, are there? Why shouldn't we assume that Old Nan is related to House Frey? Yes indeed, why? I take it Old Nan may be very old as to not connect the name Walder to the Freys as everyone does, but to other or maybe earlier incantantions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 The two Royces, Nestor and Yohn, name their eldest sons Albar and Anbar respectively. I always forget this and think GRRM has the father of Albar change between books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 19 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Correct me if I am wrong, but, with the possible exception of Hodor, there are no Walder in the story not related to House Frey, are there? Why shouldn't we assume that Old Nan is related to House Frey? The Walders (including Hodor) at Winterfell may go to GRRM's wordplay with the words "wards" and "swords" that I have been trying to sort out. Ned has one sword (Ice) and one ward (Theon). His sword is eventually divided into two swords (Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail). You might say that Theon is "divided" into Theon and Reek. (But I think it's possible that Sansa and Arya are another sword-like pair that might be represented by the reforging of Ice, and there may be others. Sansa and Arya are "divided" by the Lannisters, so that's another parallel to Ice. When Sansa is stressing about whether to tell Olenna Redwyne Tyrell about Joffrey's true, nasty personality, she worries that she will be given to Ser Ilyn Payne for revealing this information, exactly what happened to Ice as well as Ned. But I digress.) Catelyn has two wards (Big Walder and Little Walder). One apparently kills the other. I'm not at all sure where this is going, except that the death of one ward might represent the partial death of Catelyn. Hodor/Walder strikes me as one of GRRM's fools - a wise individual who appears to be nutty but who understands the "door" between death and life. Just as Walder Frey controls The Crossing, Hodor may be a guardian of some kind of door in the Winterfell crypt. I think it's entirely likely that Hodor/Walder will turn out to be related to the Frey family. It was not a minor detail that Catelyn killed Jinglebell just before her own throat was cut. She took along one fool related to the Frey family on her trip to death; she "left behind" another Frey fool with Bran. It may also be significant that the castle at The Crossing is called The Twins. Maybe Walders are supposed to come in pairs. If Jinglebell is not Hodor's other half, will we meet his symbolic partner at some point? Where is GRRM going with this? By the way, LM, you ask the best questions. Thank you for bringing out the best in my own thinking about the details in these books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Yet another related sword/ward pair: Brienne and Podrick Payne. Brienne is Catelyn's sworn sword, and Brienne now carries Oathkeeper, a reborn version of Ned's sword Ice. Like Catelyn, Brienne also killed a "fool" (Shagwell) who was super creepy and seemed to be a demon from Hell. (Are they the only people who have killed fools in the books?) Catelyn and Tyrion were linked when Catelyn took Tyrion prisoner and her (dark) sister put him on trial at the Eyrie. Tyrion is often portrayed with the symbolism of the fool in various situations throughout the books. Podrick Payne is sworn to Tyrion. He is also linked to Ser Ilyn Payne (who is a personification of The Stranger, aka Death, in addition to having been in possession of Ice before the sword was reborn). I realize Brienne and Pod are squires, not wards, but they seem strongly linked to this little bundle of symbols involving the swords, so wards and squires may be similar in GRRM's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Jon Weirgaryen said: Yes indeed, why? I take it Old Nan may be very old as to not connect the name Walder to the Freys as everyone does, but to other or maybe earlier incantantions? I'm just thinking that she's somehow related to Dunk and the sniveling little Walder we met at Whitewalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I'm just thinking that she's somehow related to Dunk and the sniveling little Walder we met at Whitewalls. If she were from the Riverlands, would she have named one of her sons after Lord Walder even though the Frey's aren't the Great House in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Well, it's a family name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Quote Balerion suddenly seemed to have far fewer rats than she'd had before, when she sailed under the name Saduleon. Daenerys I, Storm 8 Quote The cell was warmer than any cell had a right to be. It was dark, yes. Flickering orange light fell through the ancient iron bars from the torch in the sconce on the wall outside, but the back half of the cell remained drenched in gloom. It was dank as well, as might be expected on an isle such as Dragonstone, where the sea was never far. And there were rats, as many as any dungeon could expect to have and a few more besides. Davos III, Storm 25 There are no dragons on Dragonstone. ETA Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin . . . or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil. Catelyn VIII, Game 55 Basalt is a dark, fine-grained volcanic rock. When first he came to Dragonstone, the army of stone grotesques had made him uneasy, but as the years passed he had grown used to them. Now he thought of them as old friends. . . . He leaned against the battlement, the sea crashing beneath him, the black stone rough beneath his fingers. Perhaps the old tales were true, and Dragonstone was built with the stones of hell. Davos III, Storm 25 Moat Cailin is made from the same stone as Dragonstone. The Dragonmont is an active volcano. . . And yet... and yet... the comet burned even by day now, while pale grey steam rose from the hot vents of Dragonmont behind the castle, and yestermorn a white raven had brought word from the Citadel itself, word long-expected but no less fearful for all that, word of summer’s end. Prologue, Clash So, what does that tell us about the Neck, where legend said the children of the forest had once called upon their nameless gods to send the hammer of the waters? Prologue, Clash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Well, it's a family name. But was it already a family name before Lord Walder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 18 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: But was it already a family name before Lord Walder? Not necessarily, but it's a safe assumption since we see certain names in certain houses in the make believe history of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Not necessarily, but it's a safe assumption since we see certain names in certain houses in the make believe history of Westeros. My point is, that the historical Frey names that we do know don't sound anything like Walder, while the Walder's/Walda's/Waltyr's etc significantly increase after Lord Walder. Which means that it might have become a family name only because of Lord Walder, but wasn't before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: My point is, that the historical Frey names that we do know don't sound anything like Walder, while the Walder's/Walda's/Waltyr's etc significantly increase after Lord Walder. Which means that it might have become a family name only because of Lord Walder, but wasn't before. I feel like a just lost a thumb wrestling match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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