Horn of joramun speculation

[239JMFL34109]

I alway felt that the Others and the first men had similar but opposing powers. 

The first men and children of the forest could cause tsunamis and earthquakes it seems. 

We have seen in the real world a cryoseism so why not that the others can cause one to happen and that will bring down the wall? 

[Mat92]

Something that really stood out to me in the comments is the Joruman - Tormund connection. Their names even seem similar enough to be passed down through the years. For (a quick) example:

Joruman 
Jorumand
Jorumand 
Torumund
Tormund

He's called Giantsbane and the Horn is supposed to wake the giants (also, in the NW oath, the horn wakes the sleepers - sleeping giants?). 

In the books Tormund seems poised to fight for the north as the new leader of the wildings. I reckon Sam will end up coming back when he figures out he has the horn, but it doesn't bring down the wall, it actually helps in someway. The 2 meet up and he gives Tormund the horn to blow.

[Vashon]

It's a fortification made of Ice. Of Water. The Others don't need a horn to bring it down, since them and the Children put the thing up in the first place.

[krackensbane]

The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true,

Well the lord commander just got stabbed a lot so im pretty sure jons 'death' has fulfilled part of this. Is the fact that he has stark blood important? It has been said their must always be a stark in Winterfell often. I wonder if their must always be one at the wall too? Benjen is gone and Jon has 'died'. with all the blood magic going on I would'nt be surprised if getting rid of your last stark was a really bad idea.

So why did Joramund have the horn in the first place? and why didnt he bring down the wall himself? seems to me the key was on the wrong side of the wall... or was it? maybe each interested party gets half a way to bring the wall down, it will only work if they are used together. ie 'the wall stands', probably meaning the magic wards and the nights watch stays true.

Sounds to me like two opposing sides had a pact or agreement (with a safeguard of their interests, bit like a marriage) where if the other side does not fulfil thier oath (or part of the bargain) it becomes void. so then the only other question is who is involved? the realms of men definately on the south side but the north could be the children or the others or something else. I reckon the children.

That would mean after defeating the others together the men and the children renewed the pact by building a huge wall that they both have an interest in maintaining, the children could remove the magical wards if the nights watch falter and if the children let the wards fall the nights watch can leave.

so far my idea falls down on why or how joramund got the horn and why the children would be happy living on the other side of the wall. oh and why are the wildlings on the other side too.

most of this is just thinking out loud.

[House Cambodia]

Sorry, I'm not quite clear. The Horn of Joramund is said to be eight feet long. Sam's hasn't smuggled out an 8' item, so is what Sam's got a fragment of the HoJ, or a different artefact? Or is this 8' a wild exaggeration that grew in the telling?

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Sorry, I'm not quite clear. The Horn of Joramund is said to be eight feet long. Sam's hasn't smuggled out an 8' item, so is what Sam's got a fragment of the HoJ, or a different artefact? Or is this 8' a wild exaggeration that grew in the telling?

The Horn of Joramun is never actually described at all. Mel burns "a" big old-looking horn and claims it's the Horn of Joramun, something Tormund dismisses as a lie later on. 

ADwD, Jon XII

"Did she?" Tormund slapped his thigh and hooted. "She burned that fine big horn, aye. A bloody sin, I call it. A thousand years old, that was. We found it in a giant's grave, and no man o' us had ever seen a horn so big. That must have been why Mance got the notion to tell you it were Joramun's. He wanted you crows to think he had it in his power to blow your bloody Wall down about your knees. But we never found the true horn, not for all our digging. If we had, every kneeler in your Seven Kingdoms would have chunks o' ice to cool his wine all summer."

[House Cambodia]

Cheers, got it.

[DarkSister1001]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 1:08 PM, krackensbane said:

Well the lord commander just got stabbed a lot so im pretty sure jons 'death' has fulfilled part of this. 

It's the second LC that the brother's have killed.  Unless it's like you say and it has to do with his blood.  Possibly even location since Mormont was North of the Wall and Jon was at CB. 

IMO the NW's staying true means they guard the realms of men.  As Jon points out Free Folk are men too.  I would guess that the mutiny isn't the catalyst so mush as the reason for mutiny would be.  Bowen et al killing their LC for fulfilling his oath and protecting all men might just do the trick.  And I don't think the Wall will physically fall (at least not until Drogon gets there and melts the damn thing).  I think the ward on the Wall will fail.

[Ryan Minor]

DID ANYONE SEE TONIGHT'S EPISODE? ANYONE NOTICE A CERTAIN THING ON A CERTAIN THINGS BACK???????

[Ryan Minor]

On 3/8/2016 at 0:17 PM, Ryan Minor said:

Hey, first post. I'm new. Flame away. But I haven't heard anyone talking about the possibility that the white walkers have, in fact, found the horn of Joramun and will use it to knock down the wall and spill into the north. It seems to work doesn't it? Ygritte and Tormund both said they never found it. Wouldn't that (maybe) break the spell keeping the others from passing through? This theory has been nagging at me and I have yet to find anything on the topic. Sorry if this sounds ridiculous. Please go easy.

ttttttttttttttttttttttttt

[House Cambodia]

6 hours ago, Ryan Minor said:

DID ANYONE SEE TONIGHT'S EPISODE? ANYONE NOTICE A CERTAIN THING ON A CERTAIN THINGS BACK???????

Spell it out! I'm still convinced Sam's inadvertently holding it.

[Lordsteve666]

On 5/23/2016 at 0:23 PM, House Cambodia said:

Spell it out! I'm still convinced Sam's inadvertently holding it.

I think there's a scene in Ep 6.5 that you see the "Night King" from behind and he has what appears to be a horn on his back.

But later on we see him draw his weapon and it appear to be some sort of giant ice glaive type weapon so I suspect that is what people are confusing with a horn.

[krackensbane]

Has anybody read the 'A horn? no a wolf!' thread? if not get over there, it changed my life.

[Jedi Renee]

On 29/05/2016 at 9:07 AM, krackensbane said:

Has anybody read the 'A horn? no a wolf!' thread? if not get over there, it changed my life.

Cud u give a link for it?

[Lord Varys]

The Horn of Joramun isn't a weapon designed to destroy the Wall. Waking the giants in the earth means to cause an earthquake. And an earthquake would, among other things, also bring down the Wall.

[House Cambodia]

On 29/05/2016 at 4:07 AM, krackensbane said:

Has anybody read the 'A horn? no a wolf!' thread? if not get over there, it changed my life.

Yur, it's brilliant!

 

A Horn? No. A Wolf! Jon, Ghost, and the Horn that Wakes the Sleepers

[Jedi Renee]

On 02/06/2016 at 0:29 AM, House Cambodia said:

Yur, it's brilliant!

 

A Horn? No. A Wolf! Jon, Ghost, and the Horn that Wakes the Sleepers

Thanks; )

[Lordsteve666]

Just a really random idea here but based off what @Lord Varys said up thread about it causing earthquakes, could the "horn" be a comet?

If you think about it a comet could look horn shaped and if it landed/crashed on planetos it would undoubtedly cause earthquakes.
Such comets have definitely been seen in real life, around the time of the Battle of Salamis when Xerxes Persian forces were forced to retreat from their campaign against the Greeks.

So what if the Horn of Joramun is actually reference to an astronomical event, named after a leader of men/giants/greenseers/Others/CotF etc. around the same time? 
Could this "horn" be the same comet that it's been suggested was the real event behind Lightbringer? I know @LmL has some cool ideas about all this.

[LmL]

15 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said:

Just a really random idea here but based off what @Lord Varys said up thread about it causing earthquakes, could the "horn" be a comet?

If you think about it a comet could look horn shaped and if it landed/crashed on planetos it would undoubtedly cause earthquakes.
Such comets have definitely been seen in real life, around the time of the Battle of Salamis when Xerxes Persian forces were forced to retreat from their campaign against the Greeks.

So what if the Horn of Joramun is actually reference to an astronomical event, named after a leader of men/giants/greenseers/Others/CotF etc. around the same time? 
Could this "horn" be the same comet that it's been suggested was the real event behind Lightbringer? I know @LmL has some cool ideas about all this.

Yes, I absolutely think the horn is being used as a reference to the comet. There is a real horn though too, I think. 

There's already a running symbolic three-way between crescent moons, horned animals, and crescent shaped blades. The horned moon has been associated with horned animals for thousands of years, and George reinforces it often.

George does a nice version of crescent blades and crescent moons in Bran's last ADWD chapter, where "the moon was a crescent, sharp and thin as the blade of a knife" four different times - then the chapter ends with a human sacrifice via sickle-shaped knife. 

Renly, who wears the horned god / horned lord antler helm like his brother Robert, has his throat slit by the shadowsword of Stannis's shadow baby in a scene which is heavy with Lightbringer / Long Night symbolism. 

Robert is opened up by a "black devil" of a boar, and when the mad prophet speaks of this in Kings Landing, he described a thousand snakes slithering from his belly and a stench rising to the gods. The stench would be the ash and smoke rising to the heavens which blotted out the sun and stars - the gods - and the thousand snakes are the dragon meteor shower, of course. 

So horns are mixed up in all of this. Basically, the black tusk of the devil boar and the black shadow sword which opened up our sacrificial stags are equivalent to Lightbringer. It's a red comet tail, but the cores of comets are dirty ice, black iron, and apparently this oily, tar-like black space gunk which is akin to the char on your barbecue (that all from NASA's website). I've been described Lightbringer as a black sword - made from the Bloodstone Emperor's black meteor - which burned red, and this is what the comet is. Meaning... the red comet is the same as the risk of the black devil boar. A sword and horn both stab and kill, so that's easy to understand. 

But here's where sound comes in - this is the good part. In the Lightbringer story, the moon cracks at Nissa Nissa's cry of anguish and ecstasy. It was a sound which broke the moon. 

I'll just let that sink in for a minute. 

Lightbringer was a horn that stabbed the moon, but it also might have been a horn whose sound had something to do with the disaster. After all - this is a stealing the fire of the gods story. It's a Garden of Eden / original sin story (Azor Ahai and the Long Night that is). This is about man challenging the gods. In other words, the comet didn't accidentally strike the moon. Man did it, somehow. I struggled with this for a while - the themes suggest man did it, but how does a magician steer a comet into a moon? 

In a series called "A Song of Ice and Fire?" 

And then I read the scene again with Euron's "dragonbinder" horn, where the "shivering hot SCREAM" (think ice and fire, and Nissa Nissa's cry) which "split the air like a swordthrust." And then I thought about the name "dragonbinder." 

Dragonbinder? Or cometbinder? Blood for fire, indeed. 

It's a bit wild sounding, but that is by far the best answer I can come up with for "how does a magician steer a comet into a moon?" 

If this theory is right - and by the way, this is basically @Evolett's idea which I have built upon - then we should see someone like Dany blow the horn followed by a reappearance of the comet and hopefully a moon collision of some kind. That would just be a near way to kick off the new Long Night, don't you think? 

KABOOM! Fire in the sky, and then the ice dragons descend and crash with a thud. Giants wake in the earth and the Wall comes down. The sun's face is blotted out, the Others invade. It's spectacular, but it's really just a mechanism to fascinate what we all expect to happen - a new Long Night is coming (meaning something must hide the face of the sun), the Wall needs to fall (at least part of it), and the Others will invade. 

So, according to this, dragonbinder is the horn of Joramun. It wakes giants in the earth, but in a round-about way.  

[Lordsteve666]

@LmL your stuff always blows my mind! I just enjoy the stories in the books but you see so much more in it and I love reading your views on it and I agree with a lot of it as well. George is being very crafty with his references here and it's really great to pry them out of the story to try and understand it more.