Darktastes Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Sansa Stark will become like Danelle Lothston. Just throwing this out there. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/8/8e/MadDanelleLothston_by_scrapchap.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, JaqenH'gar99 said: Sansa Stark will become like Danelle Lothston. Just throwing this out there. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/8/8e/MadDanelleLothston_by_scrapchap.jpg She looks fierce! I would be okay with this, not that GRRM cares what I am okay with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, St Daga said: Certainly injury and near death (unless he did actually die and was reborn) certainly helped develop Bran's gift. It is possible that same thing could happen with Jon. But no amount of crypt dreams are going to teach him how to control and use his warg gift. I think that is what Borroq will help Jon with. It will be interesting how Jon finds out about his actually parentage, whatever it actually is. Unless, GRRM is enough of dick to never let Jon understand the truth. We might know but Jon never will, and that would suck for Jon! True dat! Jon's trainer will have to be close to him so either Borroq like you said, Bran via WW or a combination of the 2. 1 hour ago, St Daga said: Ned did describe the "wolf blood" in his siblings, Brandon and Lyanna, but never addressed it in himself or Benjen. Hard to say what he meant the wolf blood did to them, just that it lead them to an early grave. I see what you mean. I'm just being skeptical since using the "wolf blood" to describe Lyanna, Brandon & Arya is cannon and the others are suppositions. It certainly could have to do with how Jon Arryn raised Ned vs. how Rickard raised Brandon and Lyanna. But then again, Robert could have the "stag blood" considering how reckless he was. Ah, nature vs. nurture. 1 hour ago, St Daga said: As for Sansa's wolfsblood, I think it is there, but it's more quiet that Arya's. I think when Sansa was contemplating pushing Joffrey off the wall, after he took her to look at Ned's head on the battlements, her wolfs blood was flaring. I think it was only the Hound that kept her from trying to shove Joff. Also, Sansa has a bit of a sass mouth when it comes to Joff, even when she should not, and I see that in both Arya and Jon. They don't hold their tongue all of the time when they should. Of course, I like that smart ass behavior in them, so ... I see what you mean. Perhaps this is the answer to nature vs. nurture. Sansa was a Lady, like her mother. She played the part well but even then the wolf blood would come bubbling through. Certainly something to think about. Jon could be described that way as well, he's quick to anger. But that could be his dragon waking. 1 hour ago, St Daga said: As for Sansa and her snow castle in the Eyrie, I have read that scene numerous times. At first I believed it would be her that would rebuild Winterfell, but now I am not so sure. Certainly, if she dreams of Winterfell, it makes sense, because Lady is buried there, and so part of Sansa will always be at Winterfell. IMO this was a wolf (bird) dream. I tend to lean towards Bran being the rebuilder. He knew more about WF than anyone else. But my thoughts on the winged wolf tend to wax and wan. Logically, I can see him turning into a dark character but the optimist in me sees him as a savior. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: I see what you mean. I'm just being skeptical since using the "wolf blood" to describe Lyanna, Brandon & Arya is cannon and the others are suppositions. It certainly could have to do with how Jon Arryn raised Ned vs. how Rickard raised Brandon and Lyanna. Oh, it's a lot of speculation and tin foil on my part. The named wolf blood in the text (according to Ned) indeed is Brandon, Lyanna, and Arya, who if history repeats, will find an early grave, too. But I hope that is not Arya's fate. I hope she, too, in her training, is learning to control it, like I think her father did. 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: Perhaps this is the answer to nature vs. nurture. Sansa was a Lady, like her mother. She played the part well but even then the wolf blood would come bubbling through. Certainly something to think about. I think Sansa is going to surprise us! I hope so, because after aGoT, I was over her, but she has grown on me in later books. 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: Jon could be described that way as well, he's quick to anger. But that could be his dragon waking. Maybe. I am not sold on Jon's parentage yet, and I won't be until GRRM gives us an actual text reveal as proof. Nothing is clear so far in the text, just lots of tangled hints and misdirections. And I would not be surprised if he never told us who Jon's parents are. Think of the arguments people could have for another 20-50 years. Jon for sure has some wolfs blood in him, of that I am certain! 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: I tend to lean towards Bran being the rebuilder. He knew more about WF than anyone else. But my thoughts on the winged wolf tend to wax and wan. Logically, I can see him turning into a dark character but the optimist in me sees him as a savior. LOL All I know is that someone better put Winterfell back together again! Bran does make sense. He does know the castle better than any of his family, as he described in his climbing in his POV chapter before his fall/shove. Not to mention the possibility of all the Brandon's being the same Brandon, which I am actually not sold on, and I like all sorts of crack pot theories, but that one is a little too much for me. I waver a lot about who it will be. Maybe a combination of the kiddo's. I currently lean to Jon. He yearns for Winterfell, dreams of Winterfell. I think those Stark kings and lords in the crypts will be the weapon he uses to bring peace and wholeness back to the realm. Okay, that is a little too much happy ending for GRRM, but I still have hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 12 hours ago, JaqenH'gar99 said: Sansa Stark will become like Danelle Lothston. Just throwing this out there. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/8/8e/MadDanelleLothston_by_scrapchap.jpg 12 hours ago, St Daga said: She looks fierce! I would be okay with this, not that GRRM cares what I am okay with! Indeed. House Whent is descended from House Lothson and Cat's mother was Minisa Whent. That with a few bat references for Sansa thinks you might be on to something. Also Mad Danelle was known for her black armor. Cantuse thinks that the Knight of the Laughing tree may have worn her armor. Would be interesting to see Sansa or Arya find it eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 17 hours ago, St Daga said: But I hope that is not Arya's fate. I hope she, too, in her training, is learning to control it, like I think her father did. Me too! I think Ned's thinking was that if she embraced her wolf blood and learned to use it she could avoid the fate of others. 17 hours ago, St Daga said: I think Sansa is going to surprise us! I hope so, because after aGoT, I was over her, but she has grown on me in later books Same issue here. I wanted to puke each time she thought of Joff's lips. *gag 17 hours ago, St Daga said: And I would not be surprised if he never told us who Jon's parents are. Think of the arguments people could have for another 20-50 years. Jon for sure has some wolfs blood in him, of that I am certain! God's be good! He needs to tell us just to shut us up! LOL 17 hours ago, St Daga said: I waver a lot about who it will be. Maybe a combination of the kiddo's. I currently lean to Jon. He yearns for Winterfell, dreams of Winterfell. I think those Stark kings and lords in the crypts will be the weapon he uses to bring peace and wholeness back to the realm. Okay, that is a little too much happy ending for GRRM, but I still have hope! I tend to be optimistic and believe in Happily Ever After when it comes to books. You'd think after Ned, Cat & Robb I would know better by now. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 7 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Indeed. House Whent is descended from House Lothson and Cat's mother was Minisa Whent. That with a few bat references for Sansa thinks you might be on to something. Also Mad Danelle was known for her black armor. Cantuse thinks that the Knight of the Laughing tree may have worn her armor. Would be interesting to see Sansa or Arya find it eventually. It would be pretty cool if the KOTLT wore that armor, but it is only described as mismatched, and not black, so I don't know. Maybe the KOTLT used parts of Danelle Lothstons armor. I see Arya as more of an armor type of girl, but Sansa has a Queen Elizabeth I vibe, and she wore armor, or at least a breast plate according to artwork from her time. 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: Me too! I think Ned's thinking was that if she embraced her wolf blood and learned to use it she could avoid the fate of others. I do think that is what Ned was thinking when he lined up training for Arya. He wasn't sure on the "water dancing" philosophy, but he did think training was needed, to help develop and control her skills. It is actually surprising to me when we look at the Maege Mormonts daughters, that more women of the north don't fight or have some training at arms. 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: Same issue here. I wanted to puke each time she thought of Joff's lips. *gag Haha! Yes. Sansa was very stupid. I wanted to shake her a lot! Also the thought of Ramsay's lips make me gag as well! 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: God's be good! He needs to tell us just to shut us up! LOL I think he has promised that he would give us the answer to Jon's Snow's parents, or at least his mother. I need to look into that. Maybe he will only reveal the mother connection and let us guess about the father. Sometimes I think that would be more interesting to how the story is viewed in years to come, than if we have a definitive answer. I think he will tell us something that he thinks is conclusive. We might not agree. 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: I tend to be optimistic and believe in Happily Ever After when it comes to books. You'd think after Ned, Cat & Robb I would know better by now. SMH I still have optimism for a happy ending as well, but really, that just seems so silly with the way the story has gone so far. Hope springs eternal, however, and GRRM does promise us A Dream of Spring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/8/2017 at 9:44 AM, St Daga said: I do think that is what Ned was thinking when he lined up training for Arya. He wasn't sure on the "water dancing" philosophy, but he did think training was needed, to help develop and control her skills. It is actually surprising to me when we look at the Maege Mormonts daughters, that more women of the north don't fight or have some training at arms. Meera is a fighter too. And the wildling women. This actually just gives me more questions about the Stark women than anything. Now I feel like I need to look into all the Northern Houses and their ladies. On 2/8/2017 at 9:44 AM, St Daga said: Haha! Yes. Sansa was very stupid. I wanted to shake her a lot! Also the thought of Ramsay's lips make me gag as well! Yup. Lips = worms is NOT appealing. LOL Actually, I'm now wondering if the comparison of lips to worms might mean something more. ASearchofIceandFire here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 7 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said: Actually, I'm now wondering if the comparison of lips to worms might mean something more. ASearchofIceandFire here I come! Off the top of my head, the only other worm reference I can think of is the white worm in the Kindly Man's eye socket in the House of Black and White, that Arya tried to pluck out of his eye socket. I think that was a white worm! I am sure there must be other worm references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, St Daga said: Off the top of my head, the only other worm reference I can think of is the white worm in the Kindly Man's eye socket in the House of Black and White, that Arya tried to pluck out of his eye socket. I think that was a white worm! I am sure there must be other worm references. If nothing else there is always Grey Worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: 7 hours ago, St Daga said: Off the top of my head, the only other worm reference I can think of is the white worm in the Kindly Man's eye socket in the House of Black and White, that Arya tried to pluck out of his eye socket. I think that was a white worm! I am sure there must be other worm references. If nothing else there is always Grey Worm. So I searched worm in the five ASOIAF novels, I found 133 hits! So worm is well used. And more that I could look at at 3am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 15 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said: ... Actually, I'm now wondering if the comparison of lips to worms might mean something more. ASearchofIceandFire here I come! 25 minutes ago, St Daga said: So I searched worm in the five ASOIAF novels, I found 133 hits! So worm is well used. And more that I could look at at 3am! Wow, I had no idea it would be that common. My angle on this topic is a hunt for secret Targs mainly (I'm quite happy with lots of secret Targs, as long as they don't all reveal themselves and save the world with a magic sword). So I linked 'worm' with 'wyrm' - the old word for dragon. And Joffrey, with his 'wormy' lips, is in truth, a bit dragony. I'll have to look up more worm references to see if the link is solid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Springwatch said: Wow, I had no idea it would be that common. My angle on this topic is a hunt for secret Targs mainly (I'm quite happy with lots of secret Targs, as long as they don't all reveal themselves and save the world with a magic sword). So I linked 'worm' with 'wyrm' - the old word for dragon. And Joffrey, with his 'wormy' lips, is in truth, a bit dragony. I'll have to look up more worm references to see if the link is solid though. Mayhaps a clue that Jaime and Cersei are actually Targs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 21 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Mayhaps a clue that Jaime and Cersei are actually Targs? Forget it. No one cares about symbolism. They only mind what some wizened maesters have detailed as the only possible concatenations in space-time of Aerys and Johanna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Forget it. No one cares about symbolism. They only mind what some wizened maesters have detailed as the only possible concatenations in space-time of Aerys and Johanna! Mayhaps. Remember maester have biases as well and they are writing for the grandson of Tywin Lannister. They even mentioned that Joanna used to be Aerys paramour in the world book before have GM Pycelle. I don't really care if Jaime and Cersei are, I just don't want Tyrion to be. At least I am not trying to claim that Tyrion is a time travelling fetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: I don't really care if Jaime and Cersei are, I just don't want Tyrion to be. I know. I feel the same. But, let's forgive GRRM on this one. He's not ready to face his own conception head-on. He still needs a little fantasy to tide him over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 2/10/2017 at 0:01 AM, St Daga said: Off the top of my head, the only other worm reference I can think of is the white worm in the Kindly Man's eye socket in the House of Black and White, that Arya tried to pluck out of his eye socket. I think that was a white worm! I am sure there must be other worm references. Arya's wolf bit Joff. Ramsay married "Arya" and Arya ate the Grave Worm. Hmmmm On 2/10/2017 at 2:39 AM, Lord Wraith said: If nothing else there is always Grey Worm. Oh yes! On 2/10/2017 at 7:34 AM, St Daga said: So I searched worm in the five ASOIAF novels, I found 133 hits! So worm is well used. And more that I could look at at 3am! LOL, I had the same issue. My brain turned to mush. On 2/10/2017 at 8:07 AM, Springwatch said: Wow, I had no idea it would be that common. My angle on this topic is a hunt for secret Targs mainly (I'm quite happy with lots of secret Targs, as long as they don't all reveal themselves and save the world with a magic sword). So I linked 'worm' with 'wyrm' - the old word for dragon. And Joffrey, with his 'wormy' lips, is in truth, a bit dragony. I'll have to look up more worm references to see if the link is solid though. Nice! I'm not completely sold on Cersei & Jaime being secret Targs but there's no denying Joff had a madness. Whether Targ madness, incest madness or a combination is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Well... I've checked out the worm references, and tried to map them onto dragons. Or Targs. Or Targ supporters. Some things fit so very well (both Joff and Tyrion!) that I can't drop the link entirely - and it's sparked some radical ideas, but I've got to say the noise to signal ratio is high. Conclusion: grrm does not give up clues to his puzzles easily! Sometimes worms are just worms. And sometimes there's no single way to map one thing onto another. Actually this more than anything reconciles me with a Sansa/bat/Whent/Harrenhall link (previously I held out for pure bats=dragons). They could both be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, Springwatch said: Well... I've checked out the worm references, and tried to map them onto dragons. Or Targs. Or Targ supporters. Some things fit so very well (both Joff and Tyrion!) that I can't drop the link entirely - and it's sparked some radical ideas, but I've got to say the noise to signal ratio is high. Conclusion: grrm does not give up clues to his puzzles easily! Sometimes worms are just worms. And sometimes there's no single way to map one thing onto another. Actually this more than anything reconciles me with a Sansa/bat/Whent/Harrenhall link (previously I held out for pure bats=dragons). They could both be true. Letting my lack of caffeine get the best of me but I'm playing around with Worm=Arya, Bird=Sansa. Bird eats worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 @DarkSister1001 Bird eats worm - I like it! But I can tell you from my worm research that Arya eats a lot of worms, and no-one else does, I think. So Arya is a worm-eating bird, and therefore a winged wolf, and Sansa is a bird and a winged wolf, and Bran is a raven and a winged wolf. Beautiful. I'll have to look at that Winged Wolf Bran re-read project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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