The Walking Dead Season 6: "Who's Neegan?" (no comics spoilers)

[Morpheus]

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Lauren Cohan said she threw up when she read the script. Lincoln said he couldn't sleep.

Point is, they all just say whatever their bosses tell them to say.

All that stuff about people reacting to the script was in reference to the finale and originates from months ago as part of hyping the episode. Some people have spun it into a conspiracy theory that they did film a different ending that upset everyone so much and that the cliffhanger was a later decision. It is safe to say that what we saw was in no way the brutal gut punch they promised.

[Free Northman Reborn]

8 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

All that stuff about people reacting to the script was in reference to the finale and originates from months ago as part of hyping the episode. Some people have spun it into a conspiracy theory that they did film a different ending that upset everyone so much and that the cliffhanger was a later decision. It is safe to say that what we saw was in no way the brutal gut punch they promised.

Well, the scene was filmed, it was just held back until Episode 1 of Season 7, for the sake of a cheap cliffhanger gimmick.

[Relic]

They know who got killed the same ways the Cylon had a plan. Same way the writers of BSG knew who the Final 5 were while writing the first two seasons.

[Free Northman Reborn]

It is Glenn or Michonne. Simple as that.

Anything less than that does not have the requisite impact. They are worried about the loss of fans if Daryl goes. It's not Rick or Carl. And they have plans for Maggie with the Hilltop crowd.

The question really is, whose arc do they want to affect the most with this death? Rick's or Maggie's? If it is primarily Rick, then Michonne is the victim. If it needs to steer Maggie in this new direction (along with her haircut), then it is Glenn.

 

[Castel]

NVM, already covered a bit

[MercenaryChef]

_GREG NICOTERO: I remember sitting in the theater watching Empire Strikes Back and having Darth Vader say “I am your father” and I was shocked and amazed, and I don’t remember being angry. I don’t remember saying, “Oh, I give up on Star Wars because that’s lame.” It’s an exciting time to be a fan of The Walking Dead. Yeah, it’s agonizing to have to wait, but this was the end of our story, and we have an entirely new story coming up.

 

Fuck you, you insipid hack fuck. 

[Morpheus]

You remember how Empire ended with Vader looking into the camera and saying "I am your father" followed by a hard cut to the credits? The promotion for Return was all like "Who is the child?" 

 

[Lord Hanna]

10 minutes ago, MercifulChief said:

_GREG NICOTERO: I remember sitting in the theater watching Empire Strikes Back and having Darth Vader say “I am your father” and I was shocked and amazed, and I don’t remember being angry. I don’t remember saying, “Oh, I give up on Star Wars because that’s lame.” It’s an exciting time to be a fan of The Walking Dead. Yeah, it’s agonizing to have to wait, but this was the end of our story, and we have an entirely new story coming up.

 

Fuck you, you insipid hack fuck. 

That's totally not comparable. BECAUSE THEY TELL US WHO HIS FATHER IS!

 

They are truly stupid.

[Lord Hanna]

10 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

You remember how Empire ended with Vader looking into the camera and saying "I am your father" followed by a hard cut to the credits? The promotion for Return was all like "Who is the child?" 

 

Yep, they really don't get it.

[Kindly Old Man]

Every interview I read makes it more clear how disingenuous they are. For example, here is Gale Ann Hurd talking about why Glenn's death was a cliffhanger:

"Look, with the Glenn situation, we very much wanted the audience to be in the same position as Maggie and everyone else was. Which is there is no way to know. It’s not like he has a cell phone and can call someone and say, “You know what, I’m actually OK.” That reality is part of the universe that we’ve created, not knowing until you are reunited with someone. Yes, it can be incredibly challenging to wait, to not know one way or the other. But that’s within the rules of The Walking Dead universe."

That would be fine, but now Negan kills someone and they don't give a fuck about putting the audience in the same position as the characters, and they have some new justification for this cheap BS. They must really think we're idiots.

[Lord Hanna]

Yeah, they think they are untouchable as a show and nobody will stop watching. But as a defender of the show for years, they even pushed me too far, and i rarely quit watching shows once i started, no matter how bad it gets unless they truly piss me off. (I still watch supernatural lol)

[Swordfish]

16 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I was waiting for someone to make this comparison, but the two scenes could not be more different. If you payed attention carefully during the final season of The Sopranos it's pretty clear what happened in the last scene. The answers are all there. Compare that to an unneeded cliffhanger that was done for the sole purpose of shock value, and a lame attempt to carry the hype over to the next season. One was brilliant, and one was complete trash.

I'm not making the comparison between the two endings.  I'm making a comparison to the fans reactions to the endings.

[briantw]

7 hours ago, MercifulChief said:

_GREG NICOTERO: I remember sitting in the theater watching Empire Strikes Back and having Darth Vader say “I am your father” and I was shocked and amazed, and I don’t remember being angry. I don’t remember saying, “Oh, I give up on Star Wars because that’s lame.” It’s an exciting time to be a fan of The Walking Dead. Yeah, it’s agonizing to have to wait, but this was the end of our story, and we have an entirely new story coming up.

 

Fuck you, you insipid hack fuck. 

He doesn't seem to realize that cliffhangers are more than a little meaningless when you don't care about any of the characters because the show is written by morons.

[Humble AK]

6 hours ago, Swordfish said:

I'm not making the comparison between the two endings.  I'm making a comparison to the fans reactions to the endings.

Indeed, and while one could say that TWD was motivated by the profit machine, and Sopranos was motivated by the pretension of art, the fan reaction is equivalent. I have read a small subset of fans defending TWD season finale, just as there is a small subset of fans defending the Sopranos' series finale.

Although Sopranos is considered the artsy show (with the illusion of depth to its drama) and so professional critics have warmed up over it, I think.

[Castel]

Um...Nicotero posted this.

 

Feeding the beast I see.

 

[dooog]

Have to say I find it a bit amusing all the people saying they're going to quit after that finale. I don't believe you

 

I'm a big critic of this show. loved the first season, thought the second was okay. Thought the 4th was the absolute pits and 5 was dreadful. 6 was pretty damn bad too but not near 4 level. But i'm not going to kid myself, i will watch next season. I live with a big fan of the show so it's unavoidable, but even when i'm away I watch it so i'm not asking loads of questions a week or two later.

 

This show is absolute bullshit, anyone with any remote sense of taste knows this, but if you somehow stomached it this far you're going to stick with it. I'm sure people are full of good intentions, like a New Years resolution, but when October rolls around I'd bet my life 90% of these "quitter" will be tuned in.

[Castel]

43 minutes ago, dooog said:

Have to say I find it a bit amusing all the people saying they're going to quit after that finale. I don't believe you

 

I'm a big critic of this show. loved the first season, thought the second was okay. Thought the 4th was the absolute pits and 5 was dreadful. 6 was pretty damn bad too but not near 4 level. But i'm not going to kid myself, i will watch next season. I live with a big fan of the show so it's unavoidable, but even when i'm away I watch it so i'm not asking loads of questions a week or two later.

 

This show is absolute bullshit, anyone with any remote sense of taste knows this, but if you somehow stomached it this far you're going to stick with it. I'm sure people are full of good intentions, like a New Years resolution, but when October rolls around I'd bet my life 90% of these "quitter" will be tuned in.

It is the most popular show for a reason I guess. But there is also a reason I said I wouldn't watch it live even before the finale.

The system I use for Supernatural seems to work for Walking Dead. Lose interest, go away, in a few seasons someone will start talking about how it's legitimately great again. Binge-watch a few seasons (or skip to the good one), then quit until the cycle starts up. 

As someone who spoiled the comics for himself it definitely seems like they're entering some fertile territory but...trust the system

I am surprised to hear you say that S4 sucked though. A lot of the fans seemed to see S4 as the rise of their Moffat, Gimple,who saved the show. S5 gets criticism for the Hospital arc but people seem relatively fine with it. It's S3 and Andrea that seem to bring it out in people. And, as the season I watched live, I can kinda attest to that.

[Crixus]

7 hours ago, Castel said:

 

The system I use for Supernatural seems to work for Walking Dead. Lose interest, go away, in a few seasons someone will start talking about how it's legitimately great again. Binge-watch a few seasons (or skip to the good one), then quit until the cycle starts up. 

 

Pretty much this. I skipped an entire season, read it had improved so took it up again. I'll read about WHODIED in October to satisfy the last dregs of my morbid curiosity, but that's it. There is far too much good stuff to watch.m 

[Morpheus]

The cat will be out of the bag before October. In a couple of months there will probably unconfirmed spoilers.  By late summer there will probably be stills/footage which AMC will do their best to take down, but it will be a losing battle. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Looking at all of it from a purely financial point of view (which we know is the only point of view that the Showrunners have), what would attract the most viewers for next Season?

A cliffhanger such as this which leaves everyone eager to see who was killed (at the cost of leaving them fuming and probably alienating a fair amount of the viewers)? Or showing us who died, and then leaving us eager to see how the rest of the group reacts to it in Episode 1 next Season?

To me it is a no brainer. Season 2 ended really great, because of the character arc that was closed when Rick killed Shane. And you looked forward to Season 3 to see how Lori and the rest would react to that. If they left it where a gunshot rang out between Rick and Shane, but you didn't see the result, it would just have pissed people off without any added benefit to the ratings for the next Season.

In general, I just don't think stupid cliffhangers provide long term ratings boosts to a Show. Rather, good storytelling will do that.