Rugby IV - Striking Hookers Are Back In Fashion

[ljkeane]

The teams for Saturday's England-Australia game. I must admit I'm starting to get a little concerned about England's chances. Australia are playing a lot better than they were at the start of their season and Billy Vunipola's a big loss for England, he's probably been our best player in 2016 and a lot of England's game revolves around it usually taking about 3 players to tackle him. It's a big ask for Nathan Hughes who hasn't really been at his best this season.

Also the Six Nations is introducing a bonus point system next year. I'm not really a fan to be honest, I don't think it's really going to add a lot and I'm not sure it really works given teams don't have an even fixture list anyway.

[Calibandar]

England team looks seriously hindered by the absence of Launchbury, who I really like at the lock position, and Vunipola. What a blow that he will miss the Six Nations as well. I suppose Wood is not a worse option at 7 than Haskell or someone else that's available so not really a loss at that position compared to the Six Nations of 2016. I did think Itoje made a really positive difference and he's out as well. 

[Calibandar]

Very disappointed with this game due to the massive influence from Jacco Peyper, a clearly very biased ref.

Impossible for me to see who was the better team and should have won this rugby match due to his repeated interference which was consistently in England's favour. At 13-16 in Australia's favour, he allows a try by Marland Yarde which completely changes the momentum of the game. It's a clear knock-on by Yarde, pushing the ball forward with his left hand, and then later pressing it with his right hand. Easy to see in the video replay, and when you think he will disallow it precisely because of the video replay, he allows it. After that, dubious penalties to England, and when that was not enough, he gives Haylett Petty a yellow card because of a supposed late tackle. HP was on his feet and yes, he did not disappear, which is apparently what Peyper wanted him to do.. Again the video replay, and dreafully, not just another England penaltry, no , a yellow card , opening the way for more England tries. To the great joy of this ref.

Terrible display.

[Calibandar]

On a non-ref related note, I thought Nathan Hughes was immense for England.

Very big shoes to fill in replacing Vunipola, but he had a great game of his own.

I like him, Harrison and Clifford as young English guys for those 6-8 positions.

[ljkeane]

20 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Very disappointed with this game due to the massive influence from Jacco Peyper, a clearly very biased ref.

Come on.

For a start the decision on the Yarde try was the TMO not Peyper and it wasn't a clear knock on, it might be but after watching it several times I'm not sure. Knocking the ball in the air between your hands isn't a  knock on, if he controls it with his right/reestablishes contact with his left before it hits the ground it's a try. I really can't tell to be honest. The Haylett-Petty yellow card was harsh but it was a late hit and Australia weren't winning the game at that stage anyway.

Anyway, despite not playing too well another win for England despite missing a number of key players, they really are starting to look a very resilient side. So that's 13 out of 13 for England in 2016, I definitely didn't see that coming last year. The Six Nations next year should be great with England and Ireland looking very strong, Scotland have looked pretty good, Wales not looking too good but they've got Lions places to play for, even Italy beat South Africa and I haven't seen any of their games but apparently France looked to be improving. 

For Australia it's not all doom and gloom. I think Arnold and Coleman looks a useful second row partnership, Pocock's sabbatical should force them to pick an actual blindside at 6 so they should have a reasonable pack next year. Their backs are clearly dangerous given front foot ball although do need  to up their kicking game.

[Which Tyler]

14 out of 14

[ljkeane]

Yeah, the first game in the run of 14 was against Uruguay in the World Cup last year. It counts towards their theoretical run towards passing New Zealand's record of 18 (I'd be surprised if they actually do win back to back Grand Slams) but it wasn't under the current regime.

[Calibandar]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

Come on.

For a start the decision on the Yarde try was the TMO not Peyper and it wasn't a clear knock on, it might be but after watching it several times I'm not sure. Knocking the ball in the air between your hands isn't a  knock on, if he controls it with his right/reestablishes contact with his left before it hits the ground it's a try. I really can't tell to be honest. The Haylett-Petty yellow card was harsh but it was a late hit and Australia weren't winning the game at that stage anyway.

Anyway, despite not playing too well another win for England despite missing a number of key players, they really are starting to look a very resilient side. So that's 13 out of 13 for England in 2016, I definitely didn't see that coming last year. The Six Nations next year should be great with England and Ireland looking very strong, Scotland have looked pretty good, Wales not looking too good but they've got Lions places to play for, even Italy beat South Africa and I haven't seen any of their games but apparently France looked to be improving. 

For Australia it's not all doom and gloom. I think Arnold and Coleman looks a useful second row partnership.

Certainly no reason to be gloomy if you're the Aussies IMO.

Arnold and Coleman were very convincing the first few games but both eventually weren't in the squad anymore, replaced by Douglas and Simmons, who I clearly recall not being good enough during the WC either. Seems to me that they should normally be on the bench, and Arnold and Coleman to start. Guess they got injured.

As for the try, as I recall the TMO actually indicates that he pushes the ball forward but Peyper goes ahead and awards a try anyway. It simply wasn't deserved, and came at a crucial moment in the game, when England were down. He knocked it forward with his left hand, and was not constantly in touch with it either.

 

[ljkeane]

The main coaching team for the Lions has been announced. No major surprises, Farrell and Borthwick have been rumored for a while and are the obvious choices with how well both England's forwards and Ireland's defence have improved since they've taken over. I'm not entirely convinced with Howley as attack coach given how disappointing Wales' attack has largely been for some time but given Schmidt and Eddie Jones both ruled themselves out and Townsend apparently turned the job down there weren't a lot of options left amongst the home nations coaching teams. It might have been interesting to go with a coach from domestic rugby, perhaps Pat Lam, but it's a big step up to go from not coaching at international level straight into a Lions tour of New Zealand.

Anyway my obligatory Lions team:

1. Mako Vunipola - It's basically a toss up between Vunipola and McGrath, McGrath is an excellent scrummager and very good around the park while Vunipola is now solid in the scrum but phenomenal around the park. I'd generally be inclined to start the more solid set piece prop but I think we're going to need to score tries to win so I'll go with Vunipola, just.

2. Hartley - George is probably the most talented hooker available but I'm not sure you can pick him without more experience starting. Best has been pretty good recently to be fair but I'm still not confident he won't implode. Hartley hasn't been too flash around the park in the Autumn, I'm not sure he's entirely fit, but he's rock solid at the set piece, which we'll need, and he's apparently a good leader.

3. Furlong - A bit harsh on WP Nel who hasn't done anything wrong other than not be fit recently but Furlong was very impressive for Ireland against the All Blacks.

4. Itoje - Has to be in the side somewhere, it may well end up being blindside but I'd have him in the second row at the moment.

5. Jonny Gray - He really has been excellent recently but he may well not even make the squad the competition at second row is so brutal. Still I'd pick him to start right now.

6. Robshaw - he's been very good for England in 2016 and does a huge amount of the less flashy things needed to make a side function. CJ Stander has also been excellent for Ireland (I haven't picked him due to the other options I'm going for in the back row).

7. O'Brien - I'm not convinced he's going to be fit but if he is his combination of ball carrying and breakdown work could cause the All Blacks some problems.

8. Billy Vunipola - Nailed on.

9. Murray - Also nailed on.

10. Sexton - If fully fit he's the best option unfortunately I'm not confident he's capable of making it through a game let alone a series anymore. If not Sexton Ford's been good at flyhalf for England but it'd require either Farrell at 12 or Halfpenny to play in the back three. I'd probably go with Farrell at 10.

11. North - He's not playing that well and it may well be advisable that he retires now with his concussion issues but he's the most physically talented winger in Northern Hemisphere rugby.

12. Henshaw - Farrell's probably been the best 12 recently but I think we'll need a bit more of a ball carrying option.

13. Joseph - I like a 13 who threatens an outside break but mainly I'm picking him because he's an excellent defensive 13 which'll be vital.

14. Liam Williams - I think he has to be involved in the back 3 in one position or another.

15. Hogg - I'm a little concerned about him under the high ball but again to win I think it's going to take tries being scored and he's the best attacking full back. He's also got a big boot which doesn't hurt.

 

 

 

[Hereward]

It's Gatland. It'll be Wales plus Best, Itoji, Murray, Joseph and Hogg (maybe).

[Calibandar]

Is Watson out of the question as choice for no. 11?

Competition for the lock positions are insane as all the teams have such incredible strength there.

Lawes. Kruis, Launchbury, Itoje all deserve a shot. So do Dillane, Henderson, Toner.

Wyn Jones, the Gray Brothers.

I'd pick Hogg as wel. 

[Which Tyler]

Talking about striking hookers - Hartley? banned again? well I never - ought to top 60 weeks total this time.

http://sport.bt.com/crazy-hartley-comes-off-bench-and-is-promptly-sent-off-91364120141865

SOB is on his way down; and it might have been legal had he not been (would have just been a swinging arm to the torso - technically naughty, but usually let go).
However, doing something illegal that would have been legal if things were different has never really been an excuse - I'd also suggest from that clip that Dylan knew SOB was on his way down before committing.
Probably a mid-range ban (6 weeks), increased for being the offence du jour; and increased again for his record (I'd double it personally). So 7-14 weeks depending on the increase for his poor record - probably 7 weeks then, which would conveniently release him in time for the 6N.

[ljkeane]

I doubt he actually meant to hit him in the head, if he did it was seriously impressive timing, he was probably trying to nail O'Brien in the back while he was unprotected. Which isn't very nice but, as you said, is probably something you get away with. Still if you try and hurt someone sort of legally and get it wrong and catch them in the head then you can't really argue with any punishments you get.

I will say that people have been happy about England having more of a nasty streetwise edge since Jones and Hartley took over, and if he'd caught O'Brien in the back that's pretty much what that looks like. It's not ideal if he gets it wrong and gets sent off but it does seem a little hypocritical to get too worked up about it if he gets the timing wrong on one occasion.

[Which Tyler]

I'm not suggesting for a moment that he targetted the head; just that he (should have) known it was possible. He knew SOB was successfully being tackled, but couldn't have known how fast he'd go down.

He attempted a bit of a cheap shot (how very Dylan), messed up, and it became a cast-iron red card offence.

 

Mid-range for me, as there's no targetting of the head, but it's far from innocuous.

[Macklunkey]

Great performances by Scotland in the 7s today and both Glasgow and Edinburgh in Europe 

Dylan Hartley is an embarrassment.

[Which Tyler]

Question - what have you got to do to pick up a life ban in rugby?

Obviously not deliberately pulling someone's elbow back so that you hear their eblow breaking 6(?) times; that just nets you 32W

Not siting on someone's chest and repeatedly beating them about the face until they resemble nicely tenerised steak; that's a mere 7W

Even dragging your clawed-fingers across someone's face, looking up to check where the ref is, and hvaing another go will only get you 23W

And now we have a professional player attempting GBH on an unsuspecting ref; he gets a 3 year rest, but still no life ban:

walesonline

[ljkeane]

3 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

And now we have a professional player attempting GBH on an unsuspecting ref; he gets a 3 year rest, but still no life ban:

walesonline

Bloody hell, that's not great.

I don't think they like giving out life bans because it's pretty hard to make it stick if people choose to appeal it. Trevor Brennan got a life ban for getting in a fight with a fan and had it reduced to 5 years after appeal. I know a guy who got 5 years for headbutting a linesman. 

[Which Tyler]

One of those very, very rare occassions where I wouldn't object to the cops getting involved.

 

In other rugby news, Ford's gotta be a complete idiot if wants to stop standing in the middle of Faletau/Fotuali'i and Tapuai/Joseph.

 

Red card in today's match was way OTT - fingers in the eye at a maul, where he's trying to reach forwards to the ball, misses and happens to contact a Bath face on the way back. He had no idea there was even a face there until his hand made contact, and he removed it instantly.

One of those that looked bad in slow-mo (which is all the ref saw), and will lok horrendous when people go hunting for stills; but was really, really innoccuous.

[ljkeane]

So the Six Nations starts this weekend. I'm pretty excited about this year, it looks like we could have a pretty competitive tournament and, of course there's Lions places up for grabs.

Some injury news to start the week Sexton's out of the Scotland game for Ireland which is a bit of concern, although probably not a massive surprise at this stage, for them. Jackson's a reasonable replacement but I wouldn't be too confident if Keatley had to come on early. On the other hand good news on the injury front for England with Marler apparently fit to start and Haskell fit enough to come into contention, although I'd be fairly surprised if he's starting.

[Valandil]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

So the Six Nations starts this weekend. I'm pretty excited about this year, it looks like we could have a pretty competitive tournament and, of course there's Lions places up for grabs.

Some injury news to start the week Sexton's out of the Scotland game for Ireland which is a bit of concern, although probably not a massive surprise at this stage, for them. Jackson's a reasonable replacement but I wouldn't be too confident if Keatley had to come on early. On the other hand good news on the injury front for England with Marler apparently fit to start and Haskell fit enough to come into contention, although I'd be fairly surprised if he's starting.

Not a huge surprise Sexton's out, Jackson will do the job I'd imagine. It won't be Keatley as backup. It seems IRFU don't want Madigan recalled from Bordeaux "pour encourager les autres", so most likely Scannell now, Munster 12 who's rise has been meteoric, also plays 10. His brother will prob be sub-hooker too. The only person we really can't afford to lose is Murray. The drop after him in class is too great at the moment. The Scots know this too so expect to see late hits, standing leg targeted attacks on him as we saw from Glasgow in ERC, with 15 Scot intls on the pitch.

Excited about the tournament. Its going to be close I'd imagine no matter what. Scot's seem to be resurgent, just hope it doesn't all click v Ireland