Daredevil series 2: spoiler thread

[Martini Sigil]

The fight scenes were choreographed really well... especially when you compare them to other TV shows not named Banshee...  I was really happy overall... I thought they handled the Punisher & Electra backstories well...  Some of the dialogue --like Foggy's ER speech to the gangbangers-- was a little gratuitous ... But then again I imagine that making comic book source material plausible is difficult....I'll forgive them their minor trespasses since --IMO-- these Netflix shows have been exceptional....

[RumHam]

Thinking back on it it seems weird that Stick tried so hard to save Elektra from the poison when he knew he was going to have to kill her anyway. I guess maybe he did it to get back on Matty's good side and figured he could easily dispatch her later. But then he just sent one guy to do the job when clearly he should have gone himself or at least sent more people. 

While I'm nitpicking I also thought it was kinda odd that Daredevil turned his head towards the Punisher after he sniped those ninjas. It didn't seem like something a blind person would do, turning to look at someone like that. But maybe I'm wrong. 

[Leofric]

17 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Thinking back on it it seems weird that Stick tried so hard to save Elektra from the poison when he knew he was going to have to kill her anyway. I guess maybe he did it to get back on Matty's good side and figured he could easily dispatch her later. But then he just sent one guy to do the job when clearly he should have gone himself or at least sent more people. 

While I'm nitpicking I also thought it was kinda odd that Daredevil turned his head towards the Punisher after he sniped those ninjas. It didn't seem like something a blind person would do, turning to look at someone like that. But maybe I'm wrong. 

I had the impression that Stick wasn't trying to kill her exactly, I think he expected the Frenchman to fail.  I thought he was trying to keep her close, and if she wasn't going to stay out of loyalty then have her come for him out of revenge.    He knew it might come down to her having to die to keep her from the Hand, so he wanted her close where he could get to her if he needed to.

On an entirely different note,  was anyone else hoping Jessica Jones would bust in on Hogarth's meeting with Foggy to talk to Hogarth, like she kept doing in her own show.

 

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, Leofric said:

I had the impression that Stick wasn't trying to kill her exactly, I think he expected the Frenchman to fail.  I thought he was trying to keep her close, and if she wasn't going to stay out of loyalty then have her come for him out of revenge.    He knew it might come down to her having to die to keep her from the Hand, so he wanted her close where he could get to her if he needed to.

On an entirely different note,  was anyone else hoping Jessica Jones would bust in on Hogarth's meeting with Foggy to talk to Hogarth, like she kept doing in her own show.

 

I thought the same as you. It wasn't until after she talked with Matt that Elektra decided to turn her back on Stick. Up until that poi the likely could have carried on as he was.

Finished the season tonight and thought it very good. I would currently rank it DD2>JJ1>DD1, although this might change once I've got over my initial excitement at the show, we'll see. 

I was left a bit confused by the whole Black Sky/Hand thing. How long had the Hand known Elektra was Black Sky? If they knew from the start, why not apprehend her at the Roxxco meeting? And why try and kill her? Or is hat the point? Seems like the giant vase is just a resurrection thing, so was their plan always to kill her and revive her? 

[RumHam]

Huh, I might be wrong but I had the impression Stick always knew he was going to have to kill her one day. But yeah the whole Black Sky/Hand thing could have been clearer. I thought Nobu looked devastated when he killed Elektra, which would suggest that wasn't the plan. 

[The Wolves]

I wonder why Matt/Daredevil haven't had any interactions with Jessica or Luke or hell even Danny. 

Maybe they're waiting for Defenders for that but i really want some interactions.

[The BlackBear]

Stick said that they pretty much have no idea what the Hand will do with a Black Sky. I'm guessing he wanted partly to work out what they could do, and potentially turn the Hands greatest weapon against them. But he got too attached like he did with Matt.

[Mladen]

21 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

The fight scenes were choreographed really well... especially when you compare them to other TV shows not named Banshee...  I was really happy overall... I thought they handled the Punisher & Electra backstories well...  Some of the dialogue --like Foggy's ER speech to the gangbangers-- was a little gratuitous ... But then again I imagine that making comic book source material plausible is difficult....I'll forgive them their minor trespasses since --IMO-- these Netflix shows have been exceptional....

If there weren't for some logical mistakes about the varying number of ninjas Matt and Elektra were kicking asses, I would love every moment of it. I like the parallel with Avangers and countless of generic villains the main heroes should destroy. But, I agree, it was very nicely choreographed.

8 hours ago, RumHam said:

While I'm nitpicking I also thought it was kinda odd that Daredevil turned his head towards the Punisher after he sniped those ninjas. It didn't seem like something a blind person would do, turning to look at someone like that. But maybe I'm wrong. 

DD reacts to sounds, so perhaps he was reacting to where he realized the gunshots came from. That said, I have to say the way Charlie Cox portrays a blind man deserves every praise. When I think of Affleck's "blindness", God that was awful.

I have to say that someone will have to explain me the whole Blacksmith thing because I am totally lost regarding that. The Hand thing not so much, but Blacksmith, I must have missed it somehow. Will have to try to catch it on rewatch.

[Martell Spy]

 

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I wonder why Matt/Daredevil haven't had any interactions with Jessica or Luke or hell even Danny. 

Maybe they're waiting for Defenders for that but i really want some interactions.

 

 

 

Yeah, they definitely have held back. However, that does give them those first meetings in their pockets for future use. I did expect to see Luke though, because of the promo.

It's pretty cool what they've done though. It's not just Claire now as the one character that meets everyone. There's networks of non powered people forming that know each other and one of the heroes. I would imagine Karen will meet Hogarth next, through Foggy. It will be pretty cool when Trish and Malcolm meet Karen and Foggy.

[RumHam]

I think the Defenders should probably start with them all separate, except maybe Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They've got thirteen episodes and that should be plenty of time for all that introduction stuff. I'm actually really curious how they're going to handle a team up event in this format. 

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

Finished it.

I liked it for the most part.

Jon Berthnal's Punisher was as brutal and sympathetic as the character can get.

Certain plots were underdeveloped/underutilized. 

I would have preferred the Blacksmith plot being carried over to a solo series. Even to the point of the ship exploding being the last of Frank we see in this season.

And they nailed the Punisher.. Even his pain tolerance was subtly portrayed. The amount of damage done to him and he just kept on trucking. 

Good season over all. Would have preferred the Hand being more distinct than a bunch of Ninja's. Just felt overly cliche.

[protar]

11 hours ago, Risto said:

I have to say that someone will have to explain me the whole Blacksmith thing because I am totally lost regarding that. The Hand thing not so much, but Blacksmith, I must have missed it somehow. Will have to try to catch it on rewatch.

The Blacksmith was Frank's old colonel. One of the marines from Frank's squad was found on the ship that blew up and that was the reveal. So it wasn't explicitly stated which went over my head too. 

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, protar said:

The Blacksmith was Frank's old colonel. One of the marines from Frank's squad was found on the ship that blew up and that was the reveal. So it wasn't explicitly stated which went over my head too. 

That was what I was thinking, but I thought it would be a bit too underwhelming given the shitstorm it caused. I really thought there is more behind it.

[Dr. Pepper]

Was there a point on the boat where the audience was shown that Frank knew anyone on the ship?  It seemed like it was all down to Karen seeing a face in a body bag and then randomly matching it to a photo on the wall of the house she just coincidentally went to visit and then the Colonel somehow quickly concluding that she saw the people in the body bags.  

[The BlackBear]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Was there a point on the boat where the audience was shown that Frank knew anyone on the ship?  It seemed like it was all down to Karen seeing a face in a body bag and then randomly matching it to a photo on the wall of the house she just coincidentally went to visit and then the Colonel somehow quickly concluding that she saw the people in the body bags.  

Not on the boat, but when they goons showed up blondie said something to the effect of: 'It's been a while Frank.' And Castle definitely recognised him.

[Pro Augustis]

I just finished the show earlier today—slower than a lot of you, but faster than I usually watch stuff for sure. I love Cox as Daredevil and thought that the Punisher actor also nailed it. The fight scenes were spectacular. But overall I don't think I liked this season nearly as much as I wanted to. The entire hand/Black Sky plot felt completely flat to me. Unless I missed it, they never explained what being the Black Sky was or meant. Was she not human in some fashion? Does she have special powers as a result? Is she just a conduit for something else? Without knowing, the last third of the season just didn't have many stakes for me. The Blacksmith reveal was also disappointing, complete with another complicated and ill-explained thing with him (I assume?) shooting the DA and others. 

[mormont]

Finished last night. I have many thoughts (I always do) but here are a few things I loved and a few I hated.

Bernthal as the Punisher was fantastic. A lot's been said about his performance but there's an aspect I want to pick up on. To me, Bernthal-Punisher feels like a thing I haven't seen very much in comics, or at all in film: a proper working-class hero. I mean, not just in his background, but in his demeanour, his attitude to life, to what he does, and to authority. The things he values and the way he goes about his business.

In theory, DD should be that: he has the most working-class background you can imagine, orphan son of a boxer from Hell's Kitchen. But because Matt's a lawyer, a university-educated professional, and because he's always been written and acted by nice middle-class boys, he very much comes over as middle-class. In fact, that's one of the problems of the association with Hell's Kitchen - DD can come over as whatever the class equivalent of a White Saviour is, helping out the poor from his position of relative privilege.

Bernthal-Punisher felt, to me, very believable as a working-class guy who enlists (and then finds he has a talent for killing), which is what the Punisher should be. I loved that.

I also liked Karen a lot more in this series. I said before that I felt Deborah Ann Woll's performance was not the best in series 1 but this series she really stepped it up a huge amount, helped by much better writing. She didn't feel like an add-on, but got plots where she could stand on her own. I loved Karen this time around, and her becoming an investigative journalist was a logical and smart character progression. And her telling Matt off was a pleasure.

Minor annoying point: what is it with this series and costumes? OK, DD was wearing his throughout, which was good. But Elektra gets her proper costume for about five minutes and the Punisher gets his onscreen for a nanosecond. Guys, you advertised the series on the back of these costumes, and rightly so, because they look great! Why not actually show them off? Might be an idea.

That climactic battle... oh dear. Some good stuff, but some huge disappointments and some clunky bits. Killer ninjas standing around doing nothing so Matt and Elektra can Have A Moment. (Twice.) The police standing around doing nothing for the entire scene, because they don't have helicopters or snipers or SWAT teams in New York. Punisher's entire contribution being to show up and snipe a couple of ninjas Matt would otherwise have taken out in moments anyway. Seriously, did Bernthal had a scheduling conflict that day? I actually said aloud, 'that's it?' I understand why he's there from a storytelling point of view but to have him make such a token contribution was pointless.

Also not a fan of the whole 'Black Sky' retcon (and they've clearly changed their mind about what 'Black Sky' is since series 1). Unnecessary. It would be enough for Elektra to be some sort of Hand plant or supernatural prodigy - having her be, or be believed to be, the Hand's actual god is ridiculous and doesn't fit the earlier hints.

Finally, for now at least: I guess that giant hole in the ground was irrelevant?

[polishgenius]

Thinking back on it, the finale was a mess for all sorts of reasons. It's not just that Frank's contribution was so derisory and awkwardly tied in (why was he even there in the first place?), but the convicted murderer of criminals just gave the guy who's spent the series fighting to be differentiated from him an openly accepted assist-by-rifle in full view of the cops and media of New York and this had no apparent consequences at all for DD. In fact the whole thing being in public view seemed to serve no purpose, because Electra got a completely normal funeral, the ninja organisation carried on as normal, killing Nobu in public view likewise had no effect on Daredevil's perception... the whole staging was just badly conceived. When you've got one side of the plot that's all police-and-law and the other that's much more fantastical, you have to be careful how you bring them together and this just didn't do that.



The series is beginning to remind me in some ways of BSG. It has a similar tone and takes on similar themes, in its vastly different context. It has some amazing episodes and storylines, great characters acting, some fantastic, fantastic set-pieces... but it also has some pacing issues and a mystical plotline that I don't think the writers know what to do with. I hope they tie it all together better than BSG.

[Ran]

34 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

(why was he even there in the first place?)

That at least was answered: we saw him turning on the police scanner as one of the first things he does after taking over Blacksmith's little arsenal. Obviously he heard what was going on, what with the police calling for backup and spotlights on the roof and so on, realized it was "Red", and went to help.

I do admit it felt very rushed and tacked on, but I suspect the writers really felt it was too important to make this about Elektra and Daredevil facing impossible odds to allow anything but a small nod to the Punisher story.

[The BlackBear]

I Frankly (get it) didn't think he needed to be at the final fight. Him leaving his house was the finale he needed, shame it took so long to get his costume.