The Fattest Leech

Wood Dancers and Bran and Pinocchio???

45 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

 

I like very much your way to synthetize LF character ! LF, the crow/bird/singer character on the tree, who whispers the tonality, who stays hidden behind the leaves, and whom all child dreams were broken

 

15 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I've long held to the belief that Littlefinger's goal is not to sit the IT but to be the puppetmaster behind the throne. He wants to make everyone dance while he pulls the strings. LF is actually an interesting parallel to Bran. In a way LF is Pinocchio too because he grew up wanting to be a "real boy" in the sense of wanting to be one of the upper crust of Westerosi nobility. He lies so much his nose would be a forest by now if this was literal. He was the puppet, dependent on those above him, his life determined by which strings they pulled, and when he tried to break free, he ended up broken. He's spent his whole life trying to prove he's not broken, but it's the pain from the past that still drives him, and he smashed his cricket...er, conscience, long ago.

I agree with Gloubie, that's a great interpretation of LF as a parallel to Bran.  When Littlefinger tells Sansa 'surely Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me?' it's another of his facetious statements with slimy, iridescent depths.  The truth is Winterfell has never encountered as fearsome a foe as the current Bael-ish, his ultimate goal being to extinguish the Stark line utterly, occupy Winterfell and Riverrun, and finally get to kill Brandon Stark.  He's more dangerous from a Stark perspective than Euron!  After all, as you point out -- in your rather generous interpretation of his psyche -- his life's ambition has been to rectify the narcissistic wound suffered in his childhood, represented by the blistering humiliation suffered via the physical defeat at the hands of his nemesis, the strong guy, Brandon Stark.  He got out of that bind by appealing to the soft hearts of gullible women who intervened to save him from certain death; and as a reward for their kindness ended up getting themselves killed (directly and indirectly by him) down the line as a consequence of their mushy hearts.  Now -- unbeknownst to him, which might be a blessing for the Starks -- Brandon Stark is still alive rising harder and stronger than ever; the hearts of women he used to seduce with ease are harder (case in point: Lady Stoneheart); and Sansa the current embodiment of the Lady Forlorn he's cornered on the chess board may have a sharper edge than foreseen...

P.S.  A major difference between Littlefinger and Pinocchio is that Littlefinger would never sacrifice himself for someone he loved, because he's incapable of both (love and therefore self-sacrifice).  I'm referring to Pinocchio being willing to be swallowed by the whale in order to rescue his father Geppetto (being in the belly of the Leviathan is akin to skinchanging Hodor, the tree, or another object, like a dragon, moon or meteor for example; jumping into the sea also aligns with my green sea/ green see pun).  What's more, despite his obvious brokenness, LF never had a 'cricket.'  What makes Bran so interesting is that he might still have his!  Will Bran go the abominable way of Varamyr and Littlefinger -- and give in to the lure of absolute power -- or will he be capable of the self-sacrifice required in aid of another, when the time comes?

Obviously, I'd prefer the latter outcome.  I like to imagine that Bran too took a leaf from his childhood.  Unlike Littlefinger, he wasn't always broken; and even when he was broken, others took care of him, even giving their lives for him.  When he didn't catch a fish, Jon gave him his so he wouldn't feel bad.  When Ned and Theon wanted to kill the wolves, in response to Bran's pain and to save the wolves, Jon gave up his right to have a wolf of his own and symbolically his right to affiliate himself with the sigil, and be a Stark.  All of this was noted by Bran, since it's in his POV we learn of Jon's supreme kindness -- there's no other character as kind to others, even to his own detriment.  While some may read this as foreshadowing of Jon's Christlike symbolism and future sacrifice alone, I read it as Jon having modeled brotherhood, empathy, love, generosity, and high principle for the rest of his siblings, especially Bran who has a tendency to be a little wayward.  When the time comes, however, I think in return Bran, according to the example he's been given by Jon and others, unlike Littlefinger, will choose Jon and lay down his own life for his friends.

Edited by ravenous reader

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2 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

 

I like very much your way to synthetize LF character ! LF, the crow/bird/singer character on the tree, who whispers the tonality, who stays hidden behind the leaves, and whom all child dreams were broken


.

Thanks.

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8 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

 

I agree with Gloubie, that's a great interpretation of LF as a parallel to Bran.  When Littlefinger tells Sansa 'surely Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me?' it's another of his facetious statements with slimy, iridescent depths.  The truth is Winterfell has never encountered as fearsome a foe as the current Bael-ish, his ultimate goal being to extinguish the Stark line utterly, occupy Winterfell and Riverrun, and finally get to kill Brandon Stark.  He's more dangerous from a Stark perspective than Euron!  After all, as you point out -- in your rather generous interpretation of his psyche -- his life's ambition has been to rectify the narcissistic wound suffered in his childhood, represented by the blistering humiliation suffered via the physical defeat at the hands of his nemesis, the strong guy, Brandon Stark.  He got out of that bind by appealing to the soft hearts of gullible women who intervened to save him from certain death; and as a reward for their kindness ended up getting themselves killed (directly and indirectly by him) down the line as a consequence of their mushy hearts.  Now -- unbeknownst to him, which might be a blessing for the Starks -- Brandon Stark is still alive rising harder and stronger than ever; the hearts of women he used to seduce with ease are harder (case in point: Lady Stoneheart); and Sansa the current embodiment of the Lady Forlorn he's cornered on the chess board may have a sharper edge than foreseen...

P.S.  A major difference between Littlefinger and Pinocchio is that Littlefinger would never sacrifice himself for someone he loved, because he's incapable of both (love and therefore self-sacrifice).  I'm referring to Pinocchio being willing to be swallowed by the whale in order to rescue his father Geppetto (being in the belly of the Leviathan is akin to skinchanging Hodor, the tree, or another object, like a dragon, moon or meteor for example; jumping into the sea also aligns with my green sea/ green see pun).  What's more, despite his obvious brokenness, LF never had a 'cricket.'  What makes Bran so interesting is that he might still have his!  Will Bran go the abominable way of Varamyr and Littlefinger -- and give in to the lure of absolute power -- or will he be capable of the self-sacrifice required in aid of another, when the time comes?

Obviously, I'd prefer the latter outcome.  I like to imagine that Bran too took a leaf from his childhood.  Unlike Littlefinger, he wasn't always broken; and even when he was broken, others took care of him, even giving their lives for him.  When he didn't catch a fish, Jon gave him his so he wouldn't feel bad.  When Ned and Theon wanted to kill the wolves, in response to Bran's pain and to save the wolves, Jon gave up his right to have a wolf of his own and symbolically his right to affiliate himself with the sigil, and be a Stark.  All of this was noted by Bran, since it's in his POV we learn of Jon's supreme kindness -- there's no other character as kind to others, even to his own detriment.  While some may read this as foreshadowing of Jon's Christlike symbolism and future sacrifice alone, I read it as Jon having modeled brotherhood, empathy, love, generosity, and high principle for the rest of his siblings, especially Bran who has a tendency to be a little wayward.  When the time comes, however, I think in return Bran, according to the example he's been given by Jon and others, unlike Littlefinger, will choose Jon and lay down his own life for his friends.

Brilliant turn of phrase there!

Oh it's not a full analysis by any means. LF has clearly gone beyond just compensating for his broken heart and now wants to be the power behind the powers that be. Since his goal is entirely selfish, he'll never be a real boy. The kind of "real" he wanted would never make him happy anyway. He'll be the the same wooden boy, with a hollow place he thought would be filled.

Ah, the Blue Fairy fixing Pinocchio's nose problem for him. 

Probably not, but if he does fall in love with Sansa he might surprise us...and himself. Right now it certainly doesn't look hopeful. This is where Bran has the advantage over LF because he has a better background. Mothers may be a difference in this. Bran seems to have been Cat's favorite, and we never hear a thing about LF's mother except her name.

Puns rock. I'd say the cave and possibly becoming a tree make a better belly of the whale comparison, but given that Pinocchio goes there to save another, and Bran is doing this (whether he knows it or not) to save the world, it still works.

We don't really know that. It's easy to assume it, but even LF was an innocent child once. He may have had a cricket.

Good question, and it put me in mind of my wighting theory. LF got lost in the pursuit of his own "real boy" status. Bran could face a temptation beyond his own abilities. Don't know if you're familiar with my Wighting Theory (heavily inspired by another poster whose identity I have yet to discover), but it posits that living people can voluntarily choose to be "wighted" and this is basically what happened with Night's King. Now the dead wights are reanimated through the power of the Others, or the power behind them. What if Bran learns that if he allows himself to be live-wighted, he could walk again? Bloodraven can't offer him that, which either mans BR can't do it, or knows how but considers the cost too great (loss of humanity maybe?) and this implies either honesty or decency on the part of BR. But do the Others have any such humanity when they aren't even human? They have their own ideas of honor, but I doubt they'd balk at recruiting someone with Bran's powers. Imagine the Others with living soldiers on their side as well as the dead. This has potential to get really scary. And while Bran probably can escape the cave at some point he might never be able to escape this kind of devil's bargain.

That entire last paragraph highlights another advantage Bran has over LF...family. Bran had siblings, and his father right there with him. LF was an only child so far as we know, and was sent to a stranger's castle where he was always an outsider, always had to be on his best behavior so as not to disgrace his father or inconvenience Lord Hoster. His own consciousness of being below the Tully's on the social scale prevented him from forging family-like bonds the way Theon did with Robb...and LF wasn't even a hostage. The bonds of family may be what saves Bran and gets him back to being a real boy. I certainly hope so, because if my previous paragraph is possible we may see Jon having to kill Bran instead of dying to save him and Westeros.

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Wowwy! So many new comments here. I can't get to all of them at the moment because I am between work and running off to a game in a few minutes, but I will go over them and respond to more later. It took me only 50 weeks to get to page 3 in this thread :lol: Thanks guys :cheers:

16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

 

@The Fattest Leech is there a table of contents for that book of Italian folk tales? I've spent years looking (when I remember) for a book of Italian Fairy Tales that my family had when I was a kid, with no luck. Now I'm hoping to find any of the stories it had in other books.

It does have a table of contents. Let me know which ones you are looking for and I will give it a search. That book is sitting right next to me as I type.

16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Great thread, by the way.

Thanks. I never thought it really would lead to anything other than a couple of chance themes, but I may have undersold that idea to myself.

16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

On to other fairy tales...the Humpty Dumpty for Patchface got me thinking of Shireen as Alice who is in danger from Mel as the Queen of Hearts. I hope Arya as TLM doesn't end up losing her tongue...which puts me in mind of Varys' little birds, Ser Ilyn Payne, and Euron's crew.

Holy Feathered Cows!!!! I always had this feeling that Mel's next mess up was going to be a big one. In her efforts to reach her Azor Nirvana, she is going to destroy some things, or people. Queen of Hearts. Perfect :wub: I actually think Selyse will have a hand in it as well.

Arya will keep her tongue :P, but she may have to sacrifice something else. Not sure what yet. I have always wanted to write up a comparison to that story as well, but I never see it getting past two or three fans that will act to just roadblock any additional conversation. That is truly a bittersweet story.

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24 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Wowwy! So many new comments here. I can't get to all of them at the moment because I am between work and running off to a game in a few minutes, but I will go over them and respond to more later. It took me only 50 weeks to get to page 3 in this thread :lol: Thanks guys :cheers:

It does have a table of contents. Let me know which ones you are looking for and I will give it a search. That book is sitting right next to me as I type.

Thanks. I never thought it really would lead to anything other than a couple of chance themes, but I may have undersold that idea to myself.

Holy Feathered Cows!!!! I always had this feeling that Mel's next mess up was going to be a big one. In her efforts to reach her Azor Nirvana, she is going to destroy some things, or people. Queen of Hearts. Perfect :wub:I actually think Selyse will have a hand in it as well.

Arya will keep her tongue :P, but she may have to sacrifice something else. Not sure what yet. I have always wanted to write up a comparison to that story as well, but I never see it getting past two or three fans that will act to just roadblock any additional conversation. That is truly a bittersweet story.

Alas I cannot remember the titles. One had a girl named Scioccolone. I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong, but if you spot a similar name in the title of one there's a good chance that it's the same story.

Me too. Though I hope she'll offer herself first on the basis of her Gardener blood. Wasn't sure if Selyse would have enough of a roll to merit inclusion as half of the Queen of Hearts though.

Maybe part of it will be flipped. Gendry seems to rather long to be "part of her world" to paraphrase a song from the Disney version.

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