If you didn't really like AFFC can you come and talk to me?

[Dina of Oldstones]

Hello, this is one of my first few posts on this forum- so if I am not adhering to etiquette, please let me know. I want to do everything properly! 

I am a new reader to the series (but not massively bothered about spoilers myself), I started off watching the TV show and only started reading the books at the beginning of this year. I finished AFFC last month and I absolutely adored it, but I was actually very surprised to see that it did not garner as good a reception as the other ASOIAF offerings and people tend to place it as their least favourite book of the series.

I haven't picked up Dance yet, but AFFC has definitely been my favourite so far. I loved how character driven it was, I felt like I really got to know those few, select characters (who I wasn't really bothered about before) instead of lumbering around from location to location. Funnily enough, those characters are now the ones that I am most interested in (I am talking about Jaime, Cersei, Brienne and Sam) even though I don't think they will be huge players in the end game of the series. Cersei, who I once hated, became my favourite character because she was so fascinating, and her inaptitude to rule, bewildering. I loved Sam's voyage, I loved the interplay between Jaime and Brienne. I loved the glimpse of Dornish society I got in the Queenmaker plot.

When I have spoken to people about AFFC, the main complaint is that it was full of characters that they didn't really care about and Jon/Dany/Tyrion's absence was massively felt. Others didn't like that it was fairly insular reading, based around emotion rather than action.

If it left you a bit cold, why didn't you like it? I'm really interested to hear your thoughts.

[sarah.jenice]

Welcome to the forums! 

For me, I AFFC didn't grab me at first because, as you pointed out, it was filled with new characters I wasn't as invested in. I rushed through it looking for Jon, Tyrion and Dany, so I didn't give it a proper chance the first time. Upon reread, I enjoyed it a lot more, especially the Dornish plot. I still don't care for the ironborn storyline too much, but I'm willing to give it a chance. Victarion got slightly more interesting for me in ADWD. 

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

For me, it wasn't about how familiar with the characters I was. Some characters have plenty of ASOIF POVs chapters (Sansa, Cat, Tyrion) I don't look forward to reading. While new characters can also cause me little excitement (Cersei, Sam). Everyone else, I am a fan of.

I would it's more around how inner monologue and feeling driven the character is. I love Arya chapters for the action as well as back stories, but don't really care how Sansa is feeling since clearly by now she isn't going to do anything about it.  And that is just my personal feelings, I don't mean to get any Sansa fans fired up, I am sure pexpletive disagree 

[The Skinner]

AFFC is different from the other books because it has a different pacing and style than the ones before it. All of these books are very character driven, but Feast is different because whereas before all the characters chapters were in some way advancing the plot, Brienne killing Shagwell and burying Nimble Dick was a great scene but it doesn't really get her (or anyone else) farther down the plot. 

I did enjoy Feast greatly though. I felt like it was nice to see how the people and places of Westeros had weathered through the War of 5 Kings it also sets up what's going on in the less visited parts of the 7K. Though I don't see the point of any Arianne chapters and found the whole Dornish plot line tedious. I did like the Ironborn story though, mostly because I enjoyed its characters more.

And welcome to the Forums

[Richard Writhen]

Feast is one of my favorite books of all time now, so I can't help you.

[Direwight]

I'm more interested in plot (action rather than emotion), and in characters I already knew. After ASoS, what I really wanted was to continue following those characters and the plotlines around them, which were left in very exciting places, and the book only gave me some of them while adding many new and completely uninteresting POVs.

I don't think I had anything against the chapters of any of the characters I already knew, but I couldn't have cared less about the new second-tier POVs (even the chapter names reinforced the idea that the characters are second-tier and unimportant), which to me were little more than a slog to get through. After all that went down near the end of SoS, I certainly didn't want to continue from there by having to read about a religious lunatic taking a swim or a drone thinking about being married to an axe. I wanted to pick up where things left off, and I only got that for half the characters. And when you combine that with the fact that plot-wise not all that much happens, the word "boring" does inevitably come to mind.

I can sort of understand why for someone the most interesting aspect can be to take their time being in a character's head and getting to know them and their past and how they feel and so on, but I'm simply much more interested in the "things happening" side of things.

[Abdallah]

AFFC wasn't as bad as people say it was. Some of Brienne's chapters were too long but parts of it was funny. Cersei drove me insane in the damn book but Jaime was awesome. 

[evita mgfs]

3 hours ago, Dina of Oldstones said:

Hello, this is one of my first few posts on this forum- so if I am not adhering to etiquette, please let me know. I want to do everything properly! 

I am a new reader to the series (but not massively bothered about spoilers myself), I started off watching the TV show and only started reading the books at the beginning of this year. I finished AFFC last month and I absolutely adored it, but I was actually very surprised to see that it did not garner as good a reception as the other ASOIAF offerings and people tend to place it as their least favourite book of the series.

I haven't picked up Dance yet, but AFFC has definitely been my favourite so far. I loved how character driven it was, I felt like I really got to know those few, select characters (who I wasn't really bothered about before) instead of lumbering around from location to location. Funnily enough, those characters are now the ones that I am most interested in (I am talking about Jaime, Cersei, Brienne and Sam) even though I don't think they will be huge players in the end game of the series. Cersei, who I once hated, became my favourite character because she was so fascinating, and her inaptitude to rule, bewildering. I loved Sam's voyage, I loved the interplay between Jaime and Brienne. I loved the glimpse of Dornish society I got in the Queenmaker plot.

When I have spoken to people about AFFC, the main complaint is that it was full of characters that they didn't really care about and Jon/Dany/Tyrion's absence was massively felt. Others didn't like that it was fairly insular reading, based around emotion rather than action.

If it left you a bit cold, why didn't you like it? I'm really interested to hear your thoughts.

After the first three novels presenting as tightly organized with clear and present transitional elements between and among POVs, I, too, found AFfC flat and disappointing.  Although I am sure others will disagree, I found AFfC and ADwD underwhelming in many, many ways when compared to the first three novels of the series.  To me, it seemed that Martin lost his way, but he had much to say regardless, and when he did, he was all over the place in organization and structure, that is, when held up to the pristine organization and structure of the earlier novels.  

[StarkofWinterfell]

I understand where you're coming from OP. AFFC is my favorite book of the series.

[The Fattest Leech]

I think, for many readers, coming off the quick action and surprises from Storm and then back into the character building that is AFFC was a weird shift. It was for me. At the time my co-worker had finished the book a few months before I started that one. She laughed and gave me an  "ugh" type of sigh. But then after letting it digest a bit, and then after a re-read, I realized what a gem it is.

Feast and Dance are the halfway point in the series. Everything from here on out should be back to rapid action and a massive amount of reveals. I cannot wait.

Just in case this may interest you in the future, it worked for me, here is a proposed reading list for AFFC and ADWD in chapter order.

http://boiledleather.com/post/24543217702/a-proposed-a-feast-for-crowsa-dance-with-dragons

[Jon Fossoway]

I loved AFFC! That's all I have to say about that matter.

Welcome to the forum. You made a very refreshing thread.

[Dragon in the North]

I liked AFFC, but I liked it a whole lot less than the first three novels. The characters whom I fell in love with and followed for the first three books were replaced by characters that I didn't find half as interesting. The pace was sluggishly slow, and I didn't particularly enjoy all of the travelogues we've received via Brienne and Sam. Martin focused too much on world building and character development, and forgot to advance the plot.

[Sparrow spoiler]

I feel the same way as some others. Read it through the first time thinking where are all my favs. Didn't even give it a chance. After re reading it again I loved it. Once you know what to expect its great. You can actually dive into the book instead of wondering where Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and others are.

[TaenaOfMyr]

The book comes off as one where hardly anything of consequence happens. This is due to a few things. First off, just the natural story progression kinda screws the book over. The previous book was the climax of many storylines, and things had to build back up again which was going to make the book come off as weaker regardless. Second, GRRM flopped big time with his decision to split the storyline in two. The Iron Islands and Dorne storylines aren't anywhere significant enough to get the amount of space they did. 75% of Brienne's storyline was a waste of time, etc... You also lose 3 of the most interesting characters to the next book. Net result is you've got a book with some interesting chapters (Cersei's in particular), but much of the book comes off as quite boring.

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

20 minutes ago, Sparrow spoiler said:

I feel the same way as some others. Read it through the first time thinking where are all my favs. Didn't even give it a chance. After re reading it again I loved it. Once you know what to expect its great. You can actually dive into the book instead of wondering where Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and others are.

Do you think the first read through would have been improved if GRRM had just put his explanation for splitting the books up at the beginning rather than the end? I've sort of always felt that would have been better. I don't remember how long it took me the first time through to realize they weren't going to be there, but I do remember being disappointed every time a started a newly named POV and it wasn't Jon or Dany

[Daendrew]

Feast is one of the best books in the series. It's understated and very character driven. It's the middle of the story, the second act, and sets up much of the story.

I enjoyed it the first time but now on rereads I only do the FeastDance reading order.

 

they have an order for rereads and first-reads 

 

http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a

[Dina of Oldstones]

Thank you for replying everyone. I understand what you mean by finding things a 'grind'. I didn't really care about what was going on on the Wall until Jon joined the wildlings. I felt I was really battling through because I knew fun stuff was coming. 

I think this is why the books (and their adaptions) are so popular though, the POV format allows us to have our favourites and generally there is something for everyone. Sometimes the gang is all there are and its wonderful- but other times you find yourself reading for the sake of getting to the character's head you want to be in.

It's interesting to see that a lot of people have enjoyed it on their first re-read though.

20 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Just in case this may interest you in the future, it worked for me, here is a proposed reading list for AFFC and ADWD in chapter order.

http://boiledleather.com/post/24543217702/a-proposed-a-feast-for-crowsa-dance-with-dragons

Thanks! I'll give that a bash on my first re-read. I am starting Dance next week as I have a couple of weeks off work and I want to do some reading which isn't on cramped, commuter public transport

17 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I loved AFFC! That's all I have to say about that matter.

Welcome to the forum. You made a very refreshing thread.

Thank you

[Prince of the North]

Yep, I think AFfC is a great read (just like the rest of ASoIaF).  And just let me reiterate what The Fattest Leach said about reading AFfC and ADwD simultaneously or in "chronological" order.  I think they're both even better that way.

[Lord Lannister]

The largest turn off for me in Feast and for that matter Dance was the clunky character divide. In Feast  the story was from characters that I wasn't as invested in and with Dance you're getting less new story and more just other characters take of it. It was a huge disappointment on my first read through. On my subsequent readthroughs, I enjoyed the Dornish plot more though I never could get into the Ironborn plot. On my last readthrough I downloaded an online version of the Feast/Dance chapters in chronological order and that increased my enjoyment of both novels immensely. In the end both Feast and Dance seem a lot of frosting and little meat. Enjoyable in small doses, but I can't read through either novel in one sitting like I could with the first three.

[The Dragons Hand]

I loved AFFC also.

Apart from about half of the Brienne and Samwell chapters*

It helped that a lot of the PoV's in that book were some of my favorites (Jaime and Cersei, namely. The former for his significant strides into noble-anti-herodom and the later for being batshit insane but in a compelling and oddly sympathetic matter) Mind you, the chapters overall in AFFC are the largest. (Meaning each one was about twenty pages opposed to the previous 13-15) which could weigh the book down. There were only about 45 chapters in total, (opposed to the regular eighty or so) and I don't know about anyone else but my copy of AFFC has larger text and spacing than any of the other books in the series.