Ice Dragons in CoTF cave

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

If the skeletons are dragon skeletons and had been there hundreds of years, they almost certainly wouldn't be black anymore - they would probably be coated with dust, guano, maybe even fungus.

[DarkSister1001]

14 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Dragonglass is obsidian, a naturally occurring mineral formed when lava cools rapidly.  Thats why it exists on Dragonstone and other places there are volcanoes. 

Right.  I meant using their flames to heat material if they needed more than they could mine. 

[The Fattest Leech]

4 hours ago, Daendrew said:

I never put Sass and Frass together either before.

OK, I lied, but still. I am trying to be polite.

Not sure if I am reading your message incorrectly or not, but I do love the Winter is coming idea. If inunderstand it, Jon (or Bran?) will have an ice dragon named Winter which explains the house Stark words, Winter is coming. 

[Curled Finger]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 3:32 AM, Falcon2908 said:

We also know that Viserion hangs upside down, just like the 'giant bats' in the CoTF cave, in ADWD

Here's a picture of a skeleton of a bat. It looks like the skeleton of a dragon!

 

 

Also, isn't it strange that the skeleton of the 'giant bats' Bran notices haven't fallen down yet? Its' tissues should have rotted away so that it would lose its grip and it should have fallen down.

What if the 'giant bats' are not really skeletons, but they're actually some sort of dragon/wyvern that's just Hibernating?

 

 

Regardless how many times it may have previously come up, the pic really brings it home, so thanks for this cool thing, OP.   There is just so much possibility in this.   Ice dragon, hibernating fire dragon, humungous bat--it's all potential training ground for Bran.  He can warg these bones and have their memories.    Oh yes, as if the cave weren't already disturbing enough.  Bloodraven doesn't seem to eat and I don't recall any mention of the COTF eating humans so perhaps the cave could have once been a dragon's lair.  And goats--always thought that was just such a strange thing to have in the cave, random goats.   Taken in the light of a dragon's lair this cave makes a lot more sense now than it did previously.   And yes, we absolutely must have more details.    This is really good stuff, thanks. 

[SonofMag]

10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The name dragonglass is a bit of a misnomer. It is made from the fires of the earth. It is obsidian. 

http://m.westeros.org/index.php/Dragonglass

The black color of the fire dragon bones comes from the high iron content and the bones are often polished and that makes them look like onyx or obsidian.

http://m.westeros.org/index.php/Dragons 

 

By the way, I love that we are having an ice dragon possibility conversation here... On some level. 

I'd always thought that the naming was because dragons can make obsidian. A volcanic glass is just rock (obsidian is a particular type - high silica lava) that has cooled too rapidly for crystallisation to occur. This is common in volcanic activity but could easily be the consequence of dragons super-heating existing rock, which would then cool quickly in air. "Balerion and Vhagar in the fullness of their power, could melt steel and stone" - wiki. The dragons made the Valyrian roads - "ribbons of fused stone" - and sone of the buildings. I also assumed that the glass candles were linked to dragon fire. Apologies if this is already common lore!

[Ygrain]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Regardless how many times it may have previously come up, the pic really brings it home, so thanks for this cool thing, OP.   There is just so much possibility in this.   Ice dragon, hibernating fire dragon, humungous bat--it's all potential training ground for Bran.  He can warg these bones and have their memories.    Oh yes, as if the cave weren't already disturbing enough.  Bloodraven doesn't seem to eat and I don't recall any mention of the COTF eating humans so perhaps the cave could have once been a dragon's lair.  And goats--always thought that was just such a strange thing to have in the cave, random goats.   Taken in the light of a dragon's lair this cave makes a lot more sense now than it did previously.   And yes, we absolutely must have more details.    This is really good stuff, thanks. 

That would be cool! We are repeatedly hit over the head with "bones remember" for a reason, right? Though I tend to think that there might be some kind of revelation from Ned's bones

[StarkofWinterfell]

8 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Not sure if I am reading your message incorrectly or not, but I do love the Winter is coming idea. If inunderstand it, Jon (or Bran?) will have an ice dragon named Winter which explains the house Stark words, Winter is coming. 

This also explains the term for the old Stark kings, the Kings of Winter. So that must literally mean they were the rulers over the ice dragon called Winter!

Wow!

[Curled Finger]

21 hours ago, Ygrain said:

That would be cool! We are repeatedly hit over the head with "bones remember" for a reason, right? Though I tend to think that there might be some kind of revelation from Ned's bones

That's intriguing.   I have to ask what revelation could Ned's bones be hiding?

[Ygrain]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

That's intriguing.   I have to ask what revelation could Ned's bones be hiding?

Well... RLJ?

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Well... RLJ?

Ah ha!   Of course they would. Thanks.  

[Falcon2908]

On 3/26/2016 at 4:34 PM, Ygrain said:

That would be cool! We are repeatedly hit over the head with "bones remember" for a reason, right? Though I tend to think that there might be some kind of revelation from Ned's bones

Well, Cat does say that Ned's bones seem smaller and lighter. Idk why is that. Maybe because Starks are half-human-half-Other

[The Fattest Leech]

I'm in my phone and quoting from the search site is hard to do, but in Dance, Mel tells Jon that the bones remember and that's why Mance had to remove or put on Rattleshirts bone shirt. (Can't remember which. I haven't had coffee yet ) 

Also, re: Cat and Ned's bones, of course there could be some foreshadowing, but I think in this case she was just shocked that her big, strong man could be reduced to mere bones. Skeletons are deceptively small looking. 

[Lord Vance II]

I hate to be a massive downer....but I'm fairly certain in AWoIaF it says that Ice Dragons melt away when they die, bones and all, and that the only reason they are accepted to exist are the plethora of sailor tales from so many different sources. The bones could maybe be of fire dragons, but Ice Dragon bones wouldn't last. 

I could be misremembering, but I'm almost certain the maester in AWoIaF saying they have no physical evidence of Ice Dragons. 

[Ygrain]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

I hate to be a massive downer....but I'm fairly certain in AWoIaF it says that Ice Dragons melt away when they die, bones and all, and that the only reason they are accepted to exist are the plethora of sailor tales from so many different sources. The bones could maybe be of fire dragons, but Ice Dragon bones wouldn't last. 

I could be misremembering, but I'm almost certain the maester in AWoIaF saying they have no physical evidence of Ice Dragons. 

Ah, Ice Dragons... we have dismissed the claim :-)

Now, I really wouldn't bet any money on a maester's knowledge in this :-)

[The Fattest Leech]

14 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

I hate to be a massive downer....but I'm fairly certain in AWoIaF it says that Ice Dragons melt away when they die, bones and all, and that the only reason they are accepted to exist are the plethora of sailor tales from so many different sources. The bones could maybe be of fire dragons, but Ice Dragon bones wouldn't last. 

I could be misremembering, but I'm almost certain the maester in AWoIaF saying they have no physical evidence of Ice Dragons. 

That is in the story The Ice Dragon with the little girl Adara. George has said that The Ice Dragon (TID) story is not part of this world. He mentioned it on his blog and it is in a SSM on this site, but I have a hard time navigating through those pages to find what I need. Also, on my copy of the TID, the cover says it is in the same world as Westeros and ASOIAF, etc, but that was probably a marketing ploy to sell more books. The line the the World book says "supposedly" and also that they never really existed... even though we know better than to trust a southron maester.

So those ice dragons do melt into ponds of sad, cold water . However, these ice dragons could just be a variation in the overall species and not just an otherly being. (pun intended ) We do have giant ice spiders to look forward too soon enough.

However, if you were to ask me about TID story, I'd swear on my husband's life that it is set in this world of ice and fire on Planetos! Everything is the same from battles, to naming styles, to geography and more. It would only make me love ASOIAF even more.

[Falcon2908]

On 3/29/2016 at 0:13 AM, Lord Vance II said:

I hate to be a massive downer....but I'm fairly certain in AWoIaF it says that Ice Dragons melt away when they die, bones and all, and that the only reason they are accepted to exist are the plethora of sailor tales from so many different sources. The bones could maybe be of fire dragons, but Ice Dragon bones wouldn't last. 

I could be misremembering, but I'm almost certain the maester in AWoIaF saying they have no physical evidence of Ice Dragons. 

But they're in the far north, in a cave, mayhaps it's cool enough down there to preserve their remains?

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 3/24/2016 at 10:41 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh yes. I have blabbed about this before and I am glad someone else sees it too 

in the past I have checked the World book to search for huge bats being mentioned and there were no references. Just big bats down Sothoryos and over in the caves at Casterly Rock. Harrenhall is mentioned to have nests of bats, but no huge biggies. 

There are rumors that an ice dragons exists within the wall (besides currently frozen Jon Snow). There is a chance that what Bran saw really was just the old bones of a dragon from many years ago  several known dragons have gone missing within the last few centuries. As much as I'd like to see an ice dragon, or another fire dragon, I don't think we will have that opportunity.

As far as bone color, yes, the fire dragons had the black bone color (something that the wiki shows incorrectly as being white/bone color). Bran did not say the color of the bones which in itself could show they are the whiter/bone color. When Arya finds the skulls beneath the red keep she is a little surprised to see they are black. I would kind of expect them to be a different physical makeup than other regional dragons. 

Has anyone read GRRM's story the Ice Dragon. He says it is not set in the ASOIAF world, but you coulda fooled me. Everything is the same. Except those ice dragons. Those are made of actual ice and melt when they die. It is a beautiful story. Read it! 

There are more dissimilarities than similarities. Unless it's from a different age entirely, it just wouldn't fit. 

[The Fattest Leech]

21 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

There are more dissimilarities than similarities. Unless it's from a different age entirely, it just wouldn't fit. 

Yeah, upon a reading my old post with a new eye, I can see the last point was rather vague. I agree that a big fat IF the two stories are in the same world then the Ice Dragon is set way earlier- decades but probably a century or three, or ten. This was just all playing with the idea that the cold pond at Winterfell is that ice dragon pond at the end. 

[The Fattest Leech]

26 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

There are more dissimilarities than similarities. Unless it's from a different age entirely, it just wouldn't fit. 

And many of my ideas have evolved after I finally gave in and joined an online group such as this, where we civilly and maturely discuss the story at hand. 

(Damned Maynard Plummraven I will never forget )

[Maester of Valyria]

Quick thought: if it IS an ice dragon in that cave, maybe the reason it didn't melt away when it died is...IT'S NOT DEAD!!!

Dormant dragon anybody?

 

And continuing the spitballing, what if the Horn of Jorumun's 'giants from the earth' is something about an ice dragon beneath the earth waking up and shaking the ground...