Rant and Rave without Repercussions - Includes Season 6 Spoilers Part 2

[Tijgy]

I do not like Hardhome out of principle. It just established Jon again as nothing else than Swords, Fight, Battle, ... and no real politics, managing the Wall, ... and at the same time no time was spent on the battle near Winterfell between Stannis and Ramsay.   

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

yeah, Menalaus dies? Ajax dies early, Yes, the Gods and even the reason Paris took Helen. Paris and the three Goddesses. Paris lives. It was all messed up and I see the parallels of the two. Achilles never was in the Horse, he died before Ajax etc. If Troy had been done right, it should have been a 2 part movie, if successful, then do the Odessey. They messed it up.

The thing about those changes:  RANDOM.  Changed for the sake of changing.  The changes didn't add anything to the film and they weren't made in the service of any other dramatic points.  RANDOM.  I remember watching it, and being like, WTF is Paris still alive? LMAO.

Bob had 20 children.  Your sister.  Bring me my sword.  Ahem.  Random.  

[A Ghost of Someone]

2 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I do not like Hardhome out of principle. It just established Jon again as nothing else than Swords, Fight, Battle, ... and no real politics, managing the Wall, ... and at the same time no time was spent on the battle near Winterfell between Stannis and Ramsay.   

I would have rather had more interaction between the characters that are in their various games but the action of Hardhome was fun. I cannot disagree with your post though.

[Gabriele]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

The thing about those changes:  RANDOM.  Changed for the sake of changing.  The changes didn't add anything to the film and they weren't made in the service of any other dramatic points.  RANDOM.  I remember watching it, and being like, WTF is Paris still alive? LMAO.

Bob had 20 children.  Your sister.  Bring me my sword.  Ahem.  Random.  

Oh, but creatively it makes sense. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The thing about those changes:  RANDOM.  Changed for the sake of changing.  The changes didn't add anything to the film and they weren't made in the service of any other dramatic points.  RANDOM.  I remember watching it, and being like, WTF is Paris still alive? LMAO.

Bob had 20 children.  Your sister.  Bring me my sword.  Ahem.  Random.  

Oh, I agree, and apparently they have taken the same approach in AGOT. I guess they seem to think that if you change an original work that it makes you somewhat more respected as writers/producers or something like that but in both cases, literary masterpieces and you do that and this to them? Yuck.

[Gabriele]

I wonder if they ever read their way through the hexametres of the Illiad. Cliff notes are your friend.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Who knows but my brother was telling me that there was a close interpretation in Hellen of Troy done in black and white in the 1950s staring Harry Andrews. I have not seen it but if the Gods are not in it, then it is not accurate. I mean, the Gods were using all of the people in the story like pawns. Some of them had children who were participants, many were killed. There was basically a civil war in Mt. Olympus because of it. It was all left out. Shame.

[Le Cygne]

19 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I do not like Hardhome out of principle. It just established Jon again as nothing else than Swords, Fight, Battle, ... and no real politics, managing the Wall, ... and at the same time no time was spent on the battle near Winterfell between Stannis and Ramsay.   

All I remember is the Night's King and Co. as Thriller. I can't take any of it seriously enough to mock, it's pre-joked out.

[TepidHands]

35 minutes ago, Gabriele said:

They left the gods out.  No wonder they now want to leave the magic out of GoT, except for zombies and dragons, and Mel's magic boobs. Because those are cool. Direwolves are just big puppies and not cool. 

 

It parallels their treatment of religion: In the show, the old High Septon was a perv and gets jailed, the new "High Sparrow" is a zealot, his followers are anti-fun fanatics. The real-story original High Septon was corrupt, certainly, and gets murdered by Cersei to make room for a more pliant candidate. The Sparrows movement was a grass-roots revolt against the hierarchy of the church and the ruling class, and the only people who called their leader the "High Sparrow" were the aristocracy. He certainly didn't call himself that. 

Then we have the R'hllor followers, who are presented as fanatical producers of shadow demons, leechers of penises (producing a current .666 (heh) batting average in getting rid of usurpers), and ultimately, burners of little girls and sole heirs. I don't think they've ever called their deity R'hllor on the show, just the Lord of Light. Doesn't matter, because religion is dumb and hey, they were burning people on the beach when we first saw 'em, right? Right? 

I have no idea what they're doing with the Old Gods, other than not ruining them totally -- yet. Characters talked about them some in S1, and Jon and co. took their Night Watch vows in front of a heart tree. But hells, when it came time for a wedding, Robb of the North and Talisa of Essos got married by a septon and recited the vows to the Seven like a pair of Westerosi Southroners. 

They really have a very California-esque, atheistic view of religion and have turned every faith into a monster. That's a shame, because in the real story, matters of faith were important, not just for the political maneuvering, but for the individual souls. 

I do so adore Ian McShane and actually am looking forward to his appearance, but what he's said and the way he's said it don't give me hope for a Septon Meribald/Elder Brother moment. I'm expecting tits, dragons, and one Hound out of it, and that's all. 

 

 

[Stannis is the man....nis]

39 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

yeah, Menalaus dies? Ajax dies early, Yes, the Gods and even the reason Paris took Helen. Paris and the three Goddesses. Paris lives. It was all messed up and I see the parallels of the two. Achilles never was in the Horse, he died before Ajax etc. If Troy had been done right, it should have been a 2 part movie, if successful, then do the Odessey. They messed it up.

An another GOT parallel they tried to make you feel bad for the villain: just like Cersei, Ramsay, LF they tried to make you feel bad for Paris when though he caused all of this

[sarah.jenice]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

But it will be another hellish mix of boredom, utter despair, and shocks. The thing is, they are clearly happy with what they achieved last year. Right? They got 78 Emmys, including for BEST WRITING for the bad pussy. So I think it's very unlikely that they'd do anything other than "sticking to what works". 

As to the showrunners' statement that s 6 will diverge even more, I think that's also completely expected, and yes, I think they mean significant changes. Maybe someone who watched Troy can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Benioff change a bunch of stuff in it as well? Why should we think that they don't really mean it when they say they're diverging even more?

Wow, I didn't know he wrote the screenplay for Troy. It always drove me nuts that Briseis kills Agamemnon. Now I understand. 

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Troy isn't the only story David infamously made changes too:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men_Origins:_Wolverine

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

 

You have to wonder what GRRM was thinking giving his story to a guy so arrogant that he improved hacked up the Iliad.

[sarah.jenice]

21 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

It parallels their treatment of religion: In the show, the old High Septon was a perv and gets jailed, the new "High Sparrow" is a zealot, his followers are anti-fun fanatics. The real-story original High Septon was corrupt, certainly, and gets murdered by Cersei to make room for a more pliant candidate. The Sparrows movement was a grass-roots revolt against the hierarchy of the church and the ruling class, and the only people who called their leader the "High Sparrow" were the aristocracy. He certainly didn't call himself that. 

Then we have the R'hllor followers, who are presented as fanatical producers of shadow demons, leechers of penises (producing a current .666 (heh) batting average in getting rid of usurpers), and ultimately, burners of little girls and sole heirs. I don't think they've ever called their deity R'hllor on the show, just the Lord of Light. Doesn't matter, because religion is dumb and hey, they were burning people on the beach when we first saw 'em, right? Right? 

I have no idea what they're doing with the Old Gods, other than not ruining them totally -- yet. Characters talked about them some in S1, and Jon and co. took their Night Watch vows in front of a heart tree. But hells, when it came time for a wedding, Robb of the North and Talisa of Essos got married by a septon and recited the vows to the Seven like a pair of Westerosi Southroners. 

They really have a very California-esque, atheistic view of religion and have turned every faith into a monster. That's a shame, because in the real story, matters of faith were important, not just for the political maneuvering, but for the individual souls. 

I do so adore Ian McShane and actually am looking forward to his appearance, but what he's said and the way he's said it don't give me hope for a Septon Meribald/Elder Brother moment. I'm expecting tits, dragons, and one Hound out of it, and that's all. 

 

 

You have a lot of great points, and not to needlessly nitpick, but IIRC Mel is burning the effigies of the Seven on the beach near Dragonstone when we first meet her.

Everything else you said is spot on though, and I seriously hope they correctly use the awesome that is Ian McShane. Ray Donovan made me so sad with how it treated the McShane, and after watching him in such a clusterfuck of a season on Ray, it's just one more thing in a long list of what has me worried about S6. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

8 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

An another GOT parallel they tried to make you feel bad for the villain: just like Cersei, Ramsay, LF they tried to make you feel bad for Paris when though he caused all of this

True, from the mortals, yeah, him and his arrogant Daddy, King Priam but it was the Gods and in particular, Aphrodite that got the ball rolling when she promised to give Hellen to Paris in exchange for the Golden fruit, apple or pear I think.

 

 

 

[sarah.jenice]

Just now, Cas Stark said:

You have to wonder what GRRM was thinking giving his story to a guy so arrogant that he improved hacked up the Iliad.

Sigh...Brad Pit's first scene post threesome followed by him arrogantly telling a child no one will remember his name unlike the amazing Achilles was all I needed to see to know I was going to hate that movie. Although, talking about Troy just made me realize Sean Bean actually survived a movie. I'm so used to him dying.

[TepidHands]

2 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

You have a lot of great points, and not to needlessly nitpick, but IIRC Mel is burning the effigies of the Seven on the beach near Dragonstone when we first meet her.

 

I know. Unfortunately this is what David Benioff, he of the raised middle fingers, said in the "outside the episode" after the Shireen burning:

Quote

“When George first told us about this, it was one of those moments where I remember looking at Dan and going, ’God, that’s so horrible and so good in the story sense because it all comes together,'” Benioff says in a behind-the-scenes video about the making of the episode. “In the very beginning, from the very first time we saw Stannis and Melisandre, they were sacrificing people, burning people alive on the beaches of Dragonstone. It all comes to this. There’s been so much talk about King’s Blood and the power of King’s Blood, and ultimately, fatally, to Shireen’s sacrifice. It’s one of the most horrible moments we’ve shot, just in terms of the emotion of it.”

 

[sarah.jenice]

Just now, TepidHands said:

I know. Unfortunately this is what David Benioff, he of the raised middle fingers, said in the "outside the episode" after the Shireen burning:

 

Haha. They can't even remember their own show. Why does that not surprise me in the slightest. 

[TepidHands]

2 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

Haha. They can't even remember their own show. Why does that not surprise me in the slightest. 

Not only that, but every time they think they're going to get pushback, they blame it on "George." 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Just now, TepidHands said:

Not only that, but every time they think they're going to get pushback, they blame it on "George." 

they hide behind George's books every time but considering the misinterpret most of it and just pluck one thing from them, change the character in that scene and omit everything else that built up to it and resulted from it, they ought to expect criticism, yet they seem surprised every time they get it.