The Winged Shadow Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Can't get myself to hope for an Australia loss since that will mean an England win. But I wouldn't mind if the match got rained out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 Very good bowling from Rashid and Wood after Australia initially looked well set for a big score. ETA: One thing I will say about England's bowling lineup is I'm not particularly convinced with Stokes as a death bowler. It hasn't been too much of an issue so far but you always feel he's got a bad ball or two in him despite bowling a lot of good balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Aussies off to a good start. Rain also off to a good start. Hopefully England are down 9/50 in 19.5 overs and then match gets rained out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Morgan and Stokes playing really well here. England back on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 This is interesting so far. South Africa really aren't batting well but they haven't lost wickets so they might get away with it later in the innings. Scratch that Amla goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Comedy run out for Miller after De Villiers already being run out. This could get embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Strange innings so far, South Africa looked to be in a good position but have thrown away wickets through run outs (including the out-of-form De Villiers). India is now in the box seat. Congratulations to Bangladesh on qualification for the semi-finals. Who knows, they may just be one Tamim or Shakib innings away from playing in the final of an ICC tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 SA imploding at an international tournament comes as no surprise. Given the nature of this game (basically a quarter-final), I was in no doubt that we would lose. SA cricketers perform well between tournaments but aren't mentally tough enough for tournament play. Our big players consistently go missing in these tournaments unlike, say, Australia whose big players generally save their best for the big occasion which is why they are the most decorated cricketing nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On Invalid Date at 0:51 AM, Consigliere said: SA imploding at an international tournament comes as no surprise. Given the nature of this game (basically a quarter-final), I was in no doubt that we would lose. SA cricketers perform well between tournaments but aren't mentally tough enough for tournament play. Our big players consistently go missing in these tournaments unlike, say, Australia whose big players generally save their best for the big occasion which is why they are the most decorated cricketing nation. Yeah it's a shame really. I did a quick scan of their performances in international limited overs tournaments since 2000: they've made it to four Champions Trophy semi-finals, two World T20 semi-finals and two World Cup semi-finals, without a single appearance in a final. That's a 0-8 record in the semi-finals of ICC tournaments since 2000. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular John Umber Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 20 hours ago, Consigliere said: SA imploding at an international tournament comes as no surprise. Given the nature of this game (basically a quarter-final), I was in no doubt that we would lose. SA cricketers perform well between tournaments but aren't mentally tough enough for tournament play. Our big players consistently go missing in these tournaments unlike, say, Australia whose big players generally save their best for the big occasion which is why they are the most decorated cricketing nation. I don't think it's a temperament thing generally. The same batsmen who imploded yesterday have batted for days at a time to save tests, have won big games for IPL franchises, and have won critical matches to take #1 in test and ODI rankings. The problem is when it's green and gold in an ICC playoff - the press has built up this 'choker' tag (which was only relevant in 96 and 99 - those were genuine chokes) and so now it's all anyone thinks about, regardless of how fair it is. SA was outplayed yesterday, as they were by NZ in the previous WC, and Aus before that, etc etc. There's no room in the team psyche for that, it's all about 'We are supposed to win.' They're not. They can lose on any day, like anyone else. NZ and Aus didn't make the playoffs, but far less is said of that. On this side, it's all 'doom, gloom, legacy'. It's nonsense. That said, the Proteas have some real issues to deal with. Does Duminy deserve his place? Has Parnell lived up to his potential? What's AB's plan, and does he even really want to play? Where is Dale Steyn, or any other bowler to really complement Rabada and Morkel? When Tahir doesn't fire, they're truly out of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said: snip Disagree. It is without doubt a temperament thing. You say so yourself: these same players can perform outside of an international tournament yet they are unable to do the same at a major international competition. Our record at international tournaments speaks for itself - we have never won a knockout game at a T20 WC, we have only ever won one knockout game at an ODI WC (vs Sri Lanka in 2015) and our only success (in fact the only final we've ever reached) remains the Champions Trophy in 1998 despite being consistently among the top 3 or 4 ranked nations in world cricket. The only tournament where we were really unlucky was the '92 WC. Other than that, our big game players consistently go missing or there's a farcical implosion in crunch encounters at major tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular John Umber Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 51 minutes ago, Consigliere said: Disagree. It is without doubt a temperament thing. You say so yourself: these same players can perform outside of an international tournament yet they are unable to do the same at a major international competition. Our record at international tournaments speaks for itself - we have never won a knockout game at a T20 WC, we have only ever won one knockout game at an ODI WC (vs Sri Lanka in 2015) and our only success (in fact the only final we've ever reached) remains the Champions Trophy in 1998 despite being consistently among the top 3 or 4 ranked nations in world cricket. The only tournament where we were really unlucky was the '92 WC. Other than that, our big game players consistently go missing or there's a farcical implosion in crunch encounters at major tournaments. My point is that the games outside of the tournaments are just as important as the tournament games - winning two test series in a row in England and Australia, and again in India, gaining and then retaining the #1 rank, requires massive temperamental control. Something switches when it's the short format tournaments though, and I believe it's simply the weight of previous failure. And the pressure each time leads to inevitable failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said: My point is that the games outside of the tournaments are just as important as the tournament games - winning two test series in a row in England and Australia, and again in India, gaining and then retaining the #1 rank, requires massive temperamental control. Something switches when it's the short format tournaments though, and I believe it's simply the weight of previous failure. And the pressure each time leads to inevitable failure. My point was that the pressures of tournament play differs from that of tours and it is here that we are consistently found lacking. Proteas reminds me a bit of the England football side - able to negotiate qualifiers and friendlies but rubbish at major tournaments. I agree to an extent that SA is hamstrung by the baggage of previous failures but I also think that we've always lacked that extra something (x-factor/big match temperament or whatever you want to call it) that makes a top tournament side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular John Umber Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the pressure point I feel like the actual pressure is the same, the stakes are the same (for the examples I've given, obviously not a one-off series against Bangladesh at home or something). I think the attitude of the players (and fans, and media) should be less focussed on the times they fail under pressure, but more to focus on when they've excelled under pressure. It shouldn't be a culture of 'fear-of-failure', especially since they succeed so often. That x-factor comment is one I agree with. There is a tendency to coach that out of players, and it's a huge problem. That's why AB is (usually) so successful - he's allowed to be himself. He hasn't looked his usual self lately, though, which is a massive concern. He's started talking about needing a World Cup trophy to finish his career, and it's going to destroy his last few years with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 That's so unlucky. Run out backing up and he's probably about a centimetre away from getting back in in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Pretty tense match. Good knock by Safraz under lots of pressure to get Pakistan over the line. Some mediocre fielding from Sri Lanka though. On today's evidence, England have nothing to fear although Pakistan are notoriously unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 That game was hilarious! Usually it would be Pakistan dropping the simple catches and contriving to lose the match, so it was nice to see the shoe on the other foot for once. And credit to Sarfraz and Amir for getting Pakistan home. England should coast into the final from here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 It looks like England are going to drop Roy and bring in Bairstow for the semi final. I think it's hard to argue with that at this stage. You think of the current England side as batting deep but without Woakes I think there's less leeway to carry players and come semi final time can they take the risk anymore? The only question mark I suppose is Bairstow's lack of experience of opening in ODIs but apparently he's been opened in 50 over games for Yorkshire recently and scored 170 odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 + 1 Ginger = +50% success rate! England will be unstoppable now! Can't say I have high hopes of Bangladesh beating India, but here's to more upsets! Hopefully it will be a competitive match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 10 hours ago, ljkeane said: It looks like England are going to drop Roy and bring in Bairstow for the semi final. I think it's hard to argue with that at this stage. You think of the current England side as batting deep but without Woakes I think there's less leeway to carry players and come semi final time can they take the risk anymore? The only question mark I suppose is Bairstow's lack of experience of opening in ODIs but apparently he's been opened in 50 over games for Yorkshire recently and scored 170 odd. I don't think he's ever batted in the top three in any international match, so it will be interesting to see how he goes. Given Roy's poor form, it's probably worth a try. 8 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said: Can't say I have high hopes of Bangladesh beating India, but here's to more upsets! Hopefully it will be a competitive match. Yeah I'm expecting a re-run of the last Champions Trophy final. Can't really see Pakistan or Bangladesh getting up (and am still shocked that they are semi-finalists!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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