Robert Baratheon is Jon Snows father?

[Valens]

2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Throughout the Westeros history we have, the first born children of a Targaryen almost always, always looks like the mother. A clever trick George came up with to help foster speculation and theories. 

Jon looks like Lyanna, but his personality and mannerisms are very Rhaegar-like. 

You mean his introvertedness? Thats maybe just a product of being an outcast, how do you know it is because of Rhaegar is his father? And he is not described as looking like Lyanna, but Ned. It may be that they looked similar but not identical, for sure.

[Julia H.]

5 minutes ago, Valens said:

You mean his introvertedness? Thats maybe just a product of being an outcast, how do you know it is because of Rhaegar is his father? And he is not described as looking like Lyanna, but Ned. It may be that they looked similar but not identical, for sure.

If that's an argument, well, then we can equally say that Jon is never described as looking like Brandon.

However, it is mentioned that Arya and Jon have very similar looks. It is also mentioned that Arya looks like Lyanna. 

[The Fattest Leech]

21 minutes ago, Valens said:

You mean his introvertedness? Thats maybe just a product of being an outcast, how do you know it is because of Rhaegar is his father? And he is not described as looking like Lyanna, but Ned. It may be that they looked similar but not identical, for sure.

Jon is said to have the Stark looks. It is said he looks most like Arya who looks most like Lyanna. Sooo, Jon looks like Lyanna too by that math.

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It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks,

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"Who's this one now?" Craster said before Jon could go. "He has the look of a Stark."

As far as personality, yes both are introverted, but more than that they are contemplative. Both seek out alone time to think upon the trajedies of their birth. Rhaegar for Summerhall, Jon for his unkown mother and link to his identity.

Both are quiet and prefer not to rush in to battle, but when they do, they are both surprisingly good at handling swords and people naturally flock to them because of their personalities. Both make very hard decisions when it comes to getting things done for the greater good, risking looking really, really bad in the process. There is more, but coffee hasn't woken everything up yet  

Oh, both seem to naturally attract the attention of the ladies whenever they are about

[Joan Jett]

4 hours ago, Christopher Six said:

But if Rhaegar was the father then what about the physical characteristics? They definitely have all lighter features. Wouldn't some of that be in Jon? 

No. A lot of Targaryen features are recessive. The best way to keep the features is through inbreeding.

Also Jon has brown hair. The same color as Arya's. Plain and simple. All of Robert's kids have black hair, not dark brown but black. 

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

No. A lot of Targaryen features are recessive. The best way to keep the features is through inbreeding.

Also Jon has brown hair. The same color as Arya's. Plain and simple. All of Robert's kids have black hair, not dark brown but black. 

*I agree with this. Just adding more info*

I used to have a list in hand that named the first born children of Targ parents that were fathered/mothered on someone who was NOT  a Targ and it showed how the first born child of a Targ/Non-Targ parent always took on the physical features of the non-Targ parent while some of the Targ personality is ususally what showed up. BUt when the site had the big update a few months back, I lost that saved link

So yes, Jon looking like Lyanna and a Stark even though his father was a Targ falls right in line with Westeros history so far. If Lyanna and Rhaegar had more children together, then they would most likely look very Targaryen as history has shown.

It was very clever to put the purple-eyed herrings of the Dayne's in so geographically close to Targ houses and ToJ, etc.

* I added this first line to clarify. Someone recently got a little upset with me because I did not specify that in the first line when I added more info to theirs and I don't want that upset to happen again*

[The Fattest Leech]

5 hours ago, Christopher Six said:

~snipped~

Also what if Lyanna didn't want him to be king. Maybe she wanted him to be a Stark so he could never be around piles of lies and schemes, or if she didn't want the child out of wedlock.

~snipped~

This thread may be of interest to you if you are looking for more discussion on this matter

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 hours ago, princess_snow said:

Are you suggesting Lyanna was pregnant for longer than 9 months ?

I would had said longer than 12 months.

 

Anyway the real question is who isn't Jon's father.

[lemonysnicket]

No. IMO Robert was obsessed with her just because he never had her. Once he had a woman, he was no longer interested in her. (hence a lot of bastards)

[Christopher Six]

One of my friends actually came up with the theory of how possibly Jon will be put in fire when trying to dispose of him, rather hang him turning into the Others. Anyways, when they put him in the fire my friend said it will "wake the dragon"...so what about that idea?

[Marcus Agrippa]

I would say this much, if somebody wrote a fanfiction that was decent about it, I would read it. As for the story itself, no. It would take far to much work for that to happen. Lyanna def didn't have sex with robert.

[PCK]

Wonder if we'll find out who the other 7-8 of Robert's bastards are?

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Lyanna was not in the least enamoured of Robert. She knew he was a womanizer and although she is prepared to do her duty and marry him when their betrothal is announced, it is clearly not a love match from her side. She would have been very unlikely to give her virtue to someone she felt indifferent towards at best.

Also, if she was giving birth to Robert's baby down there in the ToJ, what on earth were three of Rhaegar's most trusted and loyal KG doing guarding her? If Rhaegar were just trying to keep her prisoner to threaten Robert with, then his strategy had backfired spectacularly quite a while ago. And there would have been much more practical and easier ways to accomplish that.

[sweetsunray]

19 hours ago, Valens said:

You mean his introvertedness? Thats maybe just a product of being an outcast, how do you know it is because of Rhaegar is his father?

Introversion or extraversion is not something that comes about by nurture, but is one of those nature things. It is a personally trait that determines whether broad social contact taxes your energy or gives you energy. Introverts feel spent after a social event and recharge by isolating themselves for a while with a minimum of people around them. Extraverts feel energized by a lot of social interaction and will seek people out to recharge. Doesn't mean that introverts are asocial either. They can be very sociable, but they need some alone-time afterwards. Nobody is truly 100% the one or other, but usually dominanty introverted or extraverted. But when people ignore this basic trait of themselves or even try to change it, they can end up feeling depressed and lethargic, because they feel worn out (introverts will feel completely drained by forcing themseleves to be at social gathering and the life of the party all the time, extraverts will feel listless because of isolation).

 

[Valens]

5 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Introversion or extraversion is not something that comes about by nurture, but is one of those nature things. It is a personally trait that determines whether broad social contact taxes your energy or gives you energy. Introverts feel spent after a social event and recharge by isolating themselves for a while with a minimum of people around them. Extraverts feel energized by a lot of social interaction and will seek people out to recharge. Doesn't mean that introverts are asocial either. They can be very sociable, but they need some alone-time afterwards. Nobody is truly 100% the one or other, but usually dominanty introverted or extraverted. But when people ignore this basic trait of themselves or even try to change it, they can end up feeling depressed and lethargic, because they feel worn out (introverts will feel completely drained by forcing themseleves to be at social gathering and the life of the party all the time, extraverts will feel listless because of isolation).

 

I don't find Jon to be that introverted really. He befriended Sam, Grenn and Pip pretty fast, didn't he? Plus also Dolorous Edd. He just is awkward sometimes, but that comes from being raised as a bastard. He is also very responsible, since he didn't wanna sleep with Ros (and that was quite a temptation, wasn't it?;) ) because he was afraid he might get her pregnant. Well, in the books it wasn't Ros specificially, but since we already have a name for her, lets not be too strict.

[Cas Stark]

Um, yeah, no. 

[sweetsunray]

15 minutes ago, Valens said:

I don't find Jon to be that introverted really. He befriended Sam, Grenn and Pip pretty fast, didn't he? Plus also Dolorous Edd. He just is awkward sometimes, but that comes from being raised as a bastard. He is also very responsible, since he didn't wanna sleep with Ros (and that was quite a temptation, wasn't it?;) ) because he was afraid he might get her pregnant. Well, in the books it wasn't Ros specificially, but since we already have a name for her, lets not be too strict.

You're confusing introverted with asocial. Introverts aren't asocial people who can't make friends. Introverts are just people who require a lot of alone time. Jon picks out a room for himself to sleep alone at the Wall, to think, contemplate and recharge. Once he's LC and has to deal with lots of people, whether he likes it or not, he takes the smithy for his personal space. Rhaegar too had many friends and socially gifted, but he went off to be by himself at Summerhal very often. Introversion and extraversion has nothing to do with being social or asocial, nor is it something you become on how you were raised. It's part of your temperament and that's what you're born with and only indicates what makes you feel energized and what makes you feel tired. BTW psychopaths are asocial but can be extraverted in the abnormal range.

Ros isn't in the books, nor is there an equivalent, and I don't see what that has to do with introversion or extraversion at all. Stop inserting the show into it, because the show doesn't tell you anything about Rhaegar, nor how Jon goes out of his way from the get go to find a personal space where he can be alone, both as a recruit and as LC.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

It is impossible that Jon is Robert's Get.

For starters he looks too much like a Stark, more even than the "real" Stark children.

True, dark hair is a Baratheon feature, but he lacks Robert's confidence, boistrousness of spirit, and is not stocky/broad shouldered like Robert and many of his sons.

Also, who would the mother be? Lyanna? Lyanna was not in love with Robert, and would not be likely to sleep with him before the wedding night. Also, what opprotunity would she have had? Girls of high status (in those days) were not allowed to hang around their betrothed.. unaccompanied.

 

It simply would be poor literature/television of Jon's parentage was anything other than Rhaegar/Lyanna

[The Apache Prince]

For me R + L = J is true,

People are only doubting it because it's been around a long time, there is far too much evidence pointing towards Jon being a Targ in both the show and the books. 

Doubt at your own peril

[DigUpHerBones]

got super blazed one night and proposed what if, "Promise me, Ned" was regarding Lyanna telling Ned to NEVER allow the child to live...

it then spurred this conversation...what if Robert is the one raped Lyanna? or Ashara Dayne for that matter?

certainly not out of his character as there is no way in 7 hells he, being Robert, would consider either to be rape.

Jon Arryn filled him with a sense of entitlement the day he arrived in the Vale and until the day he called his banners.

 

[Valens]

 

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

You're confusing introverted with asocial. Introverts aren't asocial people who can't make friends. Introverts are just people who require a lot of alone time. Jon picks out a room for himself to sleep alone at the Wall, to think, contemplate and recharge. Once he's LC and has to deal with lots of people, whether he likes it or not, he takes the smithy for his personal space. Rhaegar too had many friends and socially gifted, but he went off to be by himself at Summerhal very often. Introversion and extraversion has nothing to do with being social or asocial, nor is it something you become on how you were raised. It's part of your temperament and that's what you're born with and only indicates what makes you feel energized and what makes you feel tired. BTW psychopaths are asocial but can be extraverted in the abnormal range.

Ros isn't in the books, nor is there an equivalent, and I don't see what that has to do with introversion or extraversion at all. Stop inserting the show into it, because the show doesn't tell you anything about Rhaegar, nor how Jon goes out of his way from the get go to find a personal space where he can be alone, both as a recruit and as LC.

Ros isn't in the books, but there IS in fact an equivalent, a redheaded prostitute who is mentioned in the first book. It's just that she is not mentioned so much and this sub-story with Jon not wanting to sleep with her was invented by the show's writers. You don't have to tell me what introverted means, I myself am introverted-but lightly introverted. Highly introverted people ARE asocial, or do not bond easily with other people. I know one such person. They are not necessarily unfriendly, just like to keep to themselves.