The meaning of Jon's "frozen fingers" Arya quote.

[chrisdaw]

I want to discuss this quote that is often used to suggest Arya will die. I don't agree with that interpretation. The quote is foreshadowing Arya's arc, it is the central conflict that she will face. Thankfully it's a pretty simple conflict, No-one or Arya Stark.

Quote

 

You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.”

Arya didn’t think it was funny.

 

Stop hiding, go back to your room.

Stop being no-one, stop being the faceless man, go back to your room, your place, your home, the (only) place that belongs to Arya Stark. The longer you hide, the harder it will be, the harder you will become, the colder you will become. Stop running from the duties, expectations and obligations of Arya Stark, stop being hidden, stop being alone.

or don't, and you'll be needling all through winter and they'll find you alone and dead.

Stay in hiding and you'll keep on needling, murdering. Stay no-one and you can keep doing as you please, free of restraint, free of obligation and duty, you can keep feeding the vengeance, but that way leads to loneliness, that way leads to death.

 

Eventually she's going to have to make this choice that Jon lays out for her. In the foreshadowing, she goes back to her room, to Arya Stark's room.

[SevasTra82]

It is a good point that people seem to ignore the first half of the quote, and only focus on the second part.  I always believed that if you want to truly interpret a line in a book, you need to evaluate what was said *before* and *after* the quote...as well as who was saying it and in what context.

This is a good example of this.  Jon is essentially saying, (as the OP points out), "If you continue to hide, then they will find you dead and alone".  So basically, if she continues to be a FM, she's going to wind up just that...dead and alone.  But if she chooses to go back to her family, and she find support and live.

The complete line from Jon is basically prophetic....and hints that Arya is going to have a major choice to make in the coming books that will greatly impact her future.

[Seams]

Arya "joining" the House of Black and White shares many parallels with Jon joining the Night's Watch. I think this quote applies equally to both Jon and Arya.

The sewing motif is what started my interest in analyzing the symbolism of ASOIAF (hence the username). Arya doesn't like embroidery, but she does love to use the sword Jon gives her. And both of them are comfortable with winter and frozen fingers because they are of the north. So it may sound like Jon is warning her about penance, but I think this is also his acknowledgement that they are both going out to have some huge challenges and adventures "sewing" during the winter, and they will return to Winterfell - reborn - in the spring.

My best guess for the sewing and fabric symbolism so far, is that it represents holding the fabric of the kingdom together. You might start with a bolt of fabric (Boltons) and you want to make sure it doesn't fray (Freys) around the edges. Sometimes you tear it for strategic reasons (Sansa tears her sheet and puts it in the fire to hide her first moonblood; Jon tears his cloak to bandage Ghost's wound; Arya tears a cloak to bandage The Hound's wound) but usually these people (symbolically) sew things, holding society together. (Note also: Tyrion is an expert on the sewer system - a play on words - at Casterly Rock. He also sews an outfit for himself when he is on the boat called  the Shy Maid. It is like a fool's motley and is made of seven different fabrics - i.e., the Seven Kingdoms, imho.)

In the quote from Jon, I think there is also wordplay involving the word "hide." There are a lot of references to animal skins, skinchangers, pelts, the Bolton sigil with the flayed man, etc. I think Jon could be saying that Arya needs to be true to herself (consistent with your point about not staying too long in her "No one" guise, or other false identities) but this word carries the double meaning of warging. The Reeds warn Bran not to warg so much that he forgets to eat. Maybe this is a similar foreshadowing for Arya and Jon about the need to balance warging with being in their real bodies.

[chrisdaw]

9 hours ago, Seams said:

My best guess for the sewing and fabric symbolism so far, is that it represents holding the fabric of the kingdom together. You might start with a bolt of fabric (Boltons) and you want to make sure it doesn't fray (Freys) around the edges. Sometimes you tear it for strategic reasons (Sansa tears her sheet and puts it in the fire to hide her first moonblood; Jon tears his cloak to bandage Ghost's wound; Arya tears a cloak to bandage The Hound's wound) but usually these people (symbolically) sew things, holding society together. (Note also: Tyrion is an expert on the sewer system - a play on words - at Casterly Rock. He also sews an outfit for himself when he is on the boat called  the Shy Maid. It is like a fool's motley and is made of seven different fabrics - i.e., the Seven Kingdoms, imho.)

You're right in that sewing is the binding of the realm together, and seeing you state it plainly has helped me understand some. But I think it's more specific than that, it's not the people as you identify so much as it is their relationships. So run with that, sewing is the formation or maintenance of relationships that bind the realm together, sometimes personal though most often political.

Confusing thing is, sewing is also Arya killing people, using needle. It works in both directions.

Anyway, applying the first to Arya. Area is terrible at needlework. Her stitches are all crooked. From memory she gets frustrated with her work and pulls it apart at some stage? She also hates it. Anyway, if sewing is the forming or maintenance of relationships that bind the realm together, that create peace and alliances, then it follows Arya is going to be terrible at this. Which makes sense, her going back to Westeros assassinating people all over the place isn't going to bind the wounds of the realm. A vengeance crusade isn't going to create a peace, it's going to disrupt it, harm the efforts of those trying to forge it.

And peace is what the realm is going to need, eventually. Peace is what Jon is going to need, hence why he's the one attempting to persuade her from sewing (in the sense of needling and killing everyone) all through winter. A united realm is the only way the Others are going to be defeated and the realm saved, and defeating the Others and saving the realm is what Jon is duty bound to do.
 

Spoiler

 

Moving to some more foreshadowing, binding wounds and creating political alliances in Westeros manifests itself commonly in a very particular way, marriages between houses. In the sample chapter we have the following.

Quote

“Mercy,” her friend Daena implored, “Lady Stork has stepped on the hem of her gown again. Come help me sew it up.”

Quote

and then ran for needle and thread so the Snapper could sew the lace hem back onto the cloth-of-gold gown that the queen would wear in the wedding scene.

Here we have an association of both sewing and marriage.

Arya is helping Queen Lady Stork with some sewing. Only Arya doesn't explicitly do the sewing herself, I mean she gets needle, but she only does some leg work, the actual act of sewing is left to the professional.

Sansa is your queen Arya is helping sew the realm back together. Doing the leg work, collecting the pieces. Making sure the wedding scenes, that is the marriages that make up alliances, all go as planned.

BUT.

The gown Arya is fixing, putting back together, represents the realm. And the gown is noted as being gold. Not just gold, cloth-of-gold. It's a Lannister realm Arya is helping Sansa put back together.

 

Back to the OP, keeping in mind marriage is the way these seams are joined, stitches if you will. Jon wants Arya to be Arya again. And Jon is going to need a united realm. Put them together and you have why Arya is going to need to come out of hiding. Jon is going to need to marry her (not to himself), to bind together the realm.

When Robb's will surfaces and the North rally behind it, the kingdom breaks in two. When the Riverlands and Iron Islands throw in behind Jon, the break becomes significant. Marriage is how it all gets sewn back together. The pact of Ice and Fire required a Royal princess marry a Stark. It never happened. Jon is going to need Rickon to rule WF, he can't give him to the throne even if there is a girl of theirs available to marry. To marry to the throne, particularly to it's heir, to bind them to his peace, he is going to need a girl/woman, a Stark, but will have no-one. Unless, Arya Stark returns to the living.

[Seams]

When I was teaching, I had a poster in my classroom that said, "Good readers make predictions." So predict to your heart's content!

I think much, much more than marriage holds the kingdom together. The books explore family ties, heredity, liege lords and banner men, singers and storytellers, ravens, religious beliefs, the roots of trees, trade routes, strategic alliances, a magic ice wall, fleets, wolf packs, etc. And aside from sewing, there are also weavers and people who dye fabric (Lommy Greenhands) who help to keep the fabric strong and vibrant. Arya is experiencing travel, working as a servant, acting as a sort of squire, helping other people, banding together with allies, using her wits, selling shellfish, being blind, eavesdropping and many other "life lessons" besides being an apprentice assassin. It would surprise me very much if GRRM reduced her, in the end, to someone whose marriage is her sole or primary function in securing peace in the kingdom. That seems too much like a stereotype of a woman's role, and he hasn't done anything stereotypical with Arya's story.

Having said that, I will say that I still have Ned's words in mind, when he told Arya that she would be a queen one day, and the mother of a septon (among other things). And the Nymeria connection shows that her role model could be the queen who saved her people, survived on some islands and then made a strategic alliance that essentially took over Dorne. I don't think it will be Jon "giving" Arya to anyone, though. It will be a decision Arya makes if and when she sees a reason to do so.

[Not a kneeler]

Congrats, chrisdaw. Finally we have a reasonable explanation for the "find your body with a needle"  phrase. I have never felt it was a traditional foreshadowing, nor did I think Arya was marked for death. Arya has found herself on a vengeful, deadly path, but the little girl we first met at Winterfell was kind, and considerate of  others ( well, maybe not Sansa) and I don't believe she will live in her current dark state forever. At some point she will be able to rediscover her true nature. And her true nature is neither violent or evil.

[Joan Jett]

10 hours ago, Seams said:

I don't think it will be Jon "giving" Arya to anyone, though. It will be a decision Arya makes if and when she sees a reason to do so.

 

[WolfQueenArya]

Thank you so much for making a thread about this foreshadowing quote! I have never agreed that it was about Arya's death ( mostly because I don't think she will die ) and all of the answers so far make a lot of sense! You've all explained it better than I could anyway...

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, Joan Jett said:

 

It's Arya's decision, to do what Jon, her lord, her brother and her king wants for the greater good. This is not a story where characters transcend the barriers the author has worked so hard to make evident, the barriers are like a force, they just exist. It's a story where the heroes acknowledge and work within the confines. That's why they're heroes, everyone gets to survive, the realm gets to live on, because everyone sacrifices what they want.

[WolfQueenArya]

I just thought of something. Is this quote really important in the long run because I don't remember hearing this quote in season one of the show but they did keep Ned's quote in about marrying a king ( though for some reason they changed it to Lord ). Just a speculation question that popped into my head.

Personally I think Jon's quote is about feelings, internal moral thoughts and beliefs, and being true to yourself and that's important. And that's what Arya needs to do: stay true to herself and get back home to save it. 

[evita mgfs]

I am sharing an excerpt from an extremely long writing project that is ongoing in the Reread Sub-Forum.  I found it interesting that “frozen fingers” appears in an example of how Bran manifests his growing greenseeing powers in elements of nature, such as the grey mists/fog, the wind, the snowfall, the ravens, the weirwood, etc.

Martin’s repeating “frozen fingers” in another context that demonstrates Bran’s manipulations and inspirations, perhaps Arya’s frozen fingers clutching Needle intimates how Bran will influence his sister at a later time.

Bran commands the attention of Theon Greyjoy, who is aware of supernatural forces that he suspects are taunting him. But the mischievous entity controlling the winds is Bran, and he has a bit of fun tormenting his late father’s ward, the turncloak who betrayed the Starks.

“It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive why he had ever been born.

“Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

“His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them.The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

“Suddenly he did not want to be here.

“Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

·       Arya refers to herself as a “ghost” in HarrenHell.

·       “Hungry” is a word often associated with direwolves.

Martin likely insinuates how Arya’s powers will grow exponentially in spite of and as a result of her training with the Faceless Men and Him-of-Many-Faces.  Bran needs his sister as an ally to accomplish his long-range goals, and Arya demonstrates keen magical powers far beyond a mere warg

Her “frozen fingers” with Needle also suggests that she will battle an Other.  Needle’s forging at Winterfell endows it with the magic to accomplish this feat, a fact Martin reveals in SSM.

[chrisdaw]

How about frozen fingers is representative of Stark and Old Gods vengeance/anger. Theon feels the frozen fingers because he feels guilt, he is fearful in that passage a ghost is come for vengeance.

In the OP passage, Arya would die with needle locked tight in her frozen fingers, spring wouldn't thaw her. She chose vengeance and there's no coming back.

 

I don't know if it was your intention but there's a pretty good case for it being foreshadowing of Arya killing and taking Theon's face.

Cold descending on him like a wolf = Arya coming for him

a ghost had plucked with frozen fingers = Arya the ghost with frozen fingers, Arya killing him.

hungry to gaze upon his face = It only says gaze but hunger and face can allude to Arya face stealing him.

 

I don't read Bran saying "Theon" as mischievous or taunting, I read it as being said sadly, forlorn. Bran is a benevolent kid really, sweet and gentle, I don't think he has it in him to taunt a broken Theon. What I read is Bran seeing him in his new state for the first time and just realised this broken shattered thing is "Theon". In this chapter Theon fears the Old Gods and Godswood, but it's only after he leaves the Godswood that the ghost comes for him. Later he comes to draw strength from the Old Gods remembering his name.

Perhaps the Old Gods and Godswood that is essentially Bran these days are not the threat to Theon, they're his protection. Protection from Stannis burning or otherwise executing him.

Spoiler

Like if he's brought to the tree as Asha suggests and Bran finds a way to communicate to spare him.

And later protection from the ghost, protection from Arya. Arya comes for him, for vengeance with her frozen fingers, but Bran stops her - you can't have this one, I forgave him, the old gods spared him and a King pardoned him. He was punished for his sins and served his penance, the North accepts it, everyone is able to accept it, so who are you to decide otherwise? You who hides, you who are no-one, he saved the girl who took your place, I saw it, you did not, you were not here. I need him, Jon needs him, your homeland needs him and the realm needs him. We need every ally we can muster, including the Iron Islands. He is not yours to kill, judgement is not yours.

A situation like when Arya wanted Sandor executed even though he won his trial, even though the Red God spared him. Arya refused to accept the will of the gods then, but she didn't have the ability to take matters into her own hands. Perhaps she will have done some growing since then by the time she next meets Theon.

[ravenous reader]

5 hours ago, evita mgfs said:

“Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

 

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

 

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

 

·       Arya refers to herself as a “ghost” in HarrenHell.

 

·       “Hungry” is a word often associated with direwolves.

 

Martin likely insinuates how Arya’s powers will grow exponentially in spite of and as a result of her training with the Faceless Men and Him-of-Many-Faces.  Bran needs his sister as an ally to accomplish his long-range goals, and Arya demonstrates keen magical powers far beyond a mere warg

 

Her “frozen fingers” with Needle also suggests that she will battle an Other.  Needle’s forging at Winterfell endows it with the magic to accomplish this feat, a fact Martin reveals in SSM.

A 'ravening wolf'  -- the 'ravenous reader' approves of these juicy metaphors!  It's interesting, from a certain perspective all the Starks are 'winged wolves,' if one takes into account the combination of 'raven-ing'' and 'wolf' and the dual meaning of 'raven'!

Regarding the 'frozen fingers' and Arya as a ghost, there's also the danger implicit that she might lose her way, her self, and her life, if she's not careful with all this power.  'The ghost is hungry to gaze upon his face' echoes the faceless men, who, having no faces of their own, are hungry to 'take' that of another, with all that implies!

'Frozen fingers' also conjures up the dual sense of deadly weapon as well as fatal vulnerability (in that ice, like the Starks, is unyielding, inflexible, brittle, remote...recall Ned's 'frozen hell reserved for Starks,' and how a certain inflexibility in Jon's previously-burnt swordhand led to his death ), and hints to me about Arya's implacable desire for vengeance which has the tendency to get out of hand, and might be her undoing.  Bitter-cold and hell-bent in her ways, she too is made of ice and fire, begging balance.

20 hours ago, Seams said:

I think much, much more than marriage holds the kingdom together. The books explore family ties, heredity, liege lords and banner men, singers and storytellers, ravens, religious beliefs, the roots of trees, trade routes, strategic alliances, a magic ice wall, fleets, wolf packs, etc. And aside from sewing, there are also weavers and people who dye fabric (Lommy Greenhands) who help to keep the fabric strong and vibrant. Arya is experiencing travel, working as a servant, acting as a sort of squire, helping other people, banding together with allies, using her wits, selling shellfish, being blind, eavesdropping and many other "life lessons" besides being an apprentice assassin. It would surprise me very much if GRRM reduced her, in the end, to someone whose marriage is her sole or primary function

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 10:55 AM, Seams said:

The sewing motif is what started my interest in analyzing the symbolism of ASOIAF (hence the username). Arya doesn't like embroidery, but she does love to use the sword Jon gives her. And both of them are comfortable with winter and frozen fingers because they are of the north. So it may sound like Jon is warning her about penance, but I think this is also his acknowledgement that they are both going out to have some huge challenges and adventures "sewing" during the winter, and they will return to Winterfell - reborn - in the spring.

My best guess for the sewing and fabric symbolism so far, is that it represents holding the fabric of the kingdom together. You might start with a bolt of fabric (Boltons) and you want to make sure it doesn't fray (Freys) around the edges. Sometimes you tear it for strategic reasons (Sansa tears her sheet and puts it in the fire to hide her first moonblood; Jon tears his cloak to bandage Ghost's wound; Arya tears a cloak to bandage The Hound's wound) but usually these people (symbolically) sew things, holding society together. (Note also: Tyrion is an expert on the sewer system - a play on words - at Casterly Rock. He also sews an outfit for himself when he is on the boat called  the Shy Maid. It is like a fool's motley and is made of seven different fabrics - i.e., the Seven Kingdoms, imho.)

 

I love your imaginative threads (pardon the pun!) on puns, wordplay and the like!

Another connotation of 'sewing' is the creative function of 'sowing' (which ties into GRRM, that supreme 'needler's' self-depiction as 'a gardener' not unlike Greenhands)...that strong seed, those silky schemes etc -- the flip-side of which is destruction -- e.g. one can also 'sow/sew' discord, if one is not careful what one sows and prunes in the garden, or plays fast and loose with the needle and shears as it goes in the Bolton haberdashery, where 'flaying' and 'fraying' is all the rage! 

Strangely enough -- and I think this is central to GRRM's whole trope deconstruction -- nothing can be created without destruction, there is no sewing together without first cutting apart, there is no 'fire' without 'ice,' etc.  You pointed out this duality, in highlighting how tearing fabric can also have a healing, protective purpose, and how designing 'sewer' systems is born of ingenuity (the pipes, cisterns and other connections) and corruption (the sewerage that threatens to lay waste to civilization if not channeled).  Similarly, Tyrion's political finesse lies in skilfully sewing together the raw materials of ingenuity and corruption!

Tyrion exemplifies the qualities of a 'Smith' first-and-foremost, so this 'sewing' function suits him!  I'm also reminded of how he designs special saddles so wild horses (or other beasts..?!) can be tamed by even the most unlikely of riders (designing the saddle for Bran was an act of imagination, craftsmanship and healing).  As a dwarf, and one possessed of his intelligence and wit, it's Tyrion's fate to refuse to accept the world as it is, considering how inhospitably accoutred it is for one such as him.  Thus, he will be inevitably compelled again and again to destroy and create in equal measure, in order to forge a new world.

Apropos, as an aside, consider the etymology of the word 'accoutre' according to the wiki:

Quote

clothe or equip, typically in something noticeable or impressive.

mid 16th century: from French accoutrer, from Old French acoustrer, from a- (from Latin ad ‘to, at’) + cousture ‘sewing’ (see couture).

There is a long tradition in the Western literary canon of sewing as 'spinning,' 'weaving' etc. our fate/identity, etc. -- which likewise exhibits that dualism (of both creative and destructive forces at work) which I mentioned above.  Like ourselves, any literary work is fabricated/patched/sewn/woven/spun (consider 'spinning' stories, telling a 'yarn', Varys, the aficionado of a good disguise, accoutered in his sumptuous materials of silk and samite, soft slippers, patterned damask, and lilac brocade, the 'spider'/'spy-der' spinning his intricate webs, 'fabricating' deceit and redemption) together -- 'textual' (like 'textile'...) in every sense of the word. 

Although I mentioned the following on another thread, perhaps it's worth mentioning again: namely, Arya as the Stranger, analogous to the Classical Greek concept of the three Moirai, the three fates who together spin/sew/weave our fates.  Like Arya, they too have this capacity to be both life-affirming and life-annihilating:

Quote

When they were three,[15] the three Moirai were:

Clotho (/ˈkloʊθoʊ/, Greek Κλωθώ [klɔːˈtʰɔː] – "spinner") spun the thread of life from her Distaff onto her Spindle. Her Roman equivalent was Nona, (the 'Ninth'), who was originally a goddess called upon in the ninth month of pregnancy.

Lachesis (/ˈlækᵻsɪs/, Greek Λάχεσις [ˈlakʰesis] – "allotter" or drawer of lots) measured the thread of life allotted to each person with her measuring rod. Her Roman equivalent was Decima (the 'Tenth').

Atropos (/ˈætrəpɒs/, Greek Ἄτροπος [ˈatropos] – "inexorable" or "inevitable", literally "unturning",[16] sometimes called Aisa) was the cutter of the thread of life. She chose the manner of each person's death; and when their time was come, she cut their life-thread with "her abhorred shears".  Her Roman equivalent was Morta ('Dead One').

In the Republic of Plato, the three Moirai sing in unison with the music of the Seirenes. Lachesis sings the things that were, Clotho the things that are, and Atropos the things that are to be. Pindar in his Hymn to the Fates, holds them in high honour. He calls them to send their sisters Hours, Eunomia (Lawfulness), Dike (Right), and Eirene (Peace), to stop the internal civil strife

In this context, I've always read Jon's speech  as a warning to Arya to not let her wolfsblood get the better of her.  Jon has an uncanny ability, through his kindness, thoughtfulness and empathy, to understand other people's strengths and weaknesses, and therefore to know what they need (without seeking to harm like someone like Littlefinger). Accordingly, he cautions her to always preserve the balance -- between creation and destruction; forgiveness and vengeance; obligation and rebellion; fire and ice; past, present, and future etc.  This is reminiscent too of the dynamic with which Dany grapples 'if I look back I'm lost' vs. 'to go forward I must go back.'  As Jon well knows, his 'little sister' is not the most compliant when it comes to sewing in a straight line (her stitches are 'crooked,' she takes the winding path and is in danger of getting off-track), nor does she relish 'singing in unison' with the rest (unless it's with her Riverlands wolf pack)!  Rather, like 'Atropos' (or Dany, for that matter), Arya's keen on the shears, not so much on the stitches or the measure.  She prefers a more direct approach, 'stick them with the pointy end' and have done -- but there is more to sewing, and life than that!

Interestingly, Jon's quote could also unwittingly  refer to himself.  Consider Bran's dream:

Quote

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

Perhaps when it comes time and Bran calls him -- Jon, like Arya, must remember to return!

[Woe to the Usurper]

I really agree with the OP. I never liked the idea of Arya dying especially because she is one of Martin's five central characters in his original plan. Also I would just really be sad to see her go because she is one of my favorite characters and seeing anymore starks die would be sad. 

[Seams]

46 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I love your imaginative threads (pardon the pun!) on puns, wordplay and the like!

Another connotation of 'sewing' is the creative function of 'sowing' (which ties into GRRM, that supreme 'needler's' self-depiction as 'a gardener' not unlike Greenhands)...that strong seed, those silky schemes etc -- the flip-side of which is destruction -- e.g. one can also 'sow/sew' discord, if one is not careful what one sows and prunes in the garden, or plays fast and loose with the needle and shears as it goes in the Bolton haberdashery, where 'flaying' and 'fraying' is all the rage! 

Thanks! Great minds think alike! I just added "sowing" of crops to the notes in the Puns and Wordplay thread this morning. I also added "sow" as in a female pig even though the pronunciation is different. Putting this wordplay together with sewing and sewers cleared up a couple major Tyrion-related motifs for me (because of Tyrion's connection to Pretty Pig when he joins Penny's jousting act).

Thanks for the additional background. The Fates do seem like a perfect match for Arya, don't they? Or do you think she is only one of the three?

I have some new thoughts about the frozen fingers quotes, thanks to some other ideas on the wordplay thread and to the passage cited here by evita mgfs as well as some analysis I'm trying to do for the direwolf re-read - busy brainstorming day! But my thoughts stray from the analysis and determined predictions of the OP here so I'm going to ponder them awhile and put them together with a few other thoughts on an appropriate thread.

Cheers, all!

[evita mgfs]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

 

A 'ravening wolf'  -- the 'ravenous reader' approves of these juicy metaphors!  It's interesting, from a certain perspective all the Starks are 'winged wolves,' if one takes into account the combination of 'raven-ing'' and 'wolf' and the dual meaning of 'raven'!

Regarding the 'frozen fingers' and Arya as a ghost, there's also the danger implicit that she might lose her way, her self, and her life, if she's not careful with all this power.  'The ghost is hungry to gaze upon his face' echoes the faceless men, who, having no faces of their own, are hungry to 'take' that of another, with all that implies!

'Frozen fingers' also conjures up the dual sense of deadly weapon as well as fatal vulnerability (in that ice, like the Starks, is unyielding, inflexible, brittle, remote...recall Ned's 'frozen hell reserved for Starks,' and how a certain inflexibility in Jon's previously-burnt swordhand led to his death ), and hints to me about Arya's implacable desire for vengeance which has the tendency to get out of hand, and might be her undoing.  Bitter-cold and hell-bent in her ways, she too is made of ice and fire, begging balance.

 

I love your imaginative threads (pardon the pun!) on puns, wordplay and the like!

Another connotation of 'sewing' is the creative function of 'sowing' (which ties into GRRM, that supreme 'needler's' self-depiction as 'a gardener' not unlike Greenhands)...that strong seed, those silky schemes etc -- the flip-side of which is destruction -- e.g. one can also 'sow/sew' discord, if one is not careful what one sows and prunes in the garden, or plays fast and loose with the needle and shears as it goes in the Bolton haberdashery, where 'flaying' and 'fraying' is all the rage! 

Strangely enough -- and I think this is central to GRRM's whole trope deconstruction -- nothing can be created without destruction, there is no sewing together without first cutting apart, there is no 'fire' without 'ice,' etc.  You pointed out this duality, in highlighting how tearing fabric can also have a healing, protective purpose, and how designing 'sewer' systems is born of ingenuity (the pipes, cisterns and other connections) and corruption (the sewerage that threatens to lay waste to civilization if not channeled).  Similarly, Tyrion's political finesse lies in skilfully sewing together the raw materials of ingenuity and corruption!

Tyrion exemplifies the qualities of a 'Smith' first-and-foremost, so this 'sewing' function suits him!  I'm also reminded of how he designs special saddles so wild horses (or other beasts..?!) can be tamed by even the most unlikely of riders (designing the saddle for Bran was an act of imagination, craftsmanship and healing).  As a dwarf, and one possessed of his intelligence and wit, it's Tyrion's fate to refuse to accept the world as it is, considering how inhospitably accoutred it is for one such as him.  Thus, he will be inevitably compelled again and again to destroy and create in equal measure, in order to forge a new world.

Apropos, as an aside, consider the etymology of the word 'accoutre' according to the wiki:

There is a long tradition in the Western literary canon of sewing as 'spinning,' 'weaving' etc. our fate/identity, etc. -- which likewise exhibits that dualism (of both creative and destructive forces at work) which I mentioned above.  Like ourselves, any literary work is fabricated/patched/sewn/woven/spun (consider 'spinning' stories, telling a 'yarn', Varys, the aficionado of a good disguise, accoutered in his sumptuous materials of silk and samite, soft slippers, patterned damask, and lilac brocade, the 'spider'/'spy-der' spinning his intricate webs, 'fabricating' deceit and redemption) together -- 'textual' (like 'textile'...) in every sense of the word. 

Although I mentioned the following on another thread, perhaps it's worth mentioning again: namely, Arya as the Stranger, analogous to the Classical Greek concept of the three Moirai, the three fates who together spin/sew/weave our fates.  Like Arya, they too have this capacity to be both life-affirming and life-annihilating:

In this context, I've always read Jon's speech  as a warning to Arya to not let her wolfsblood get the better of her.  Jon has an uncanny ability, through his kindness, thoughtfulness and empathy, to understand other people's strengths and weaknesses, and therefore to know what they need (without seeking to harm like someone like Littlefinger). Accordingly, he cautions her to always preserve the balance -- between creation and destruction; forgiveness and vengeance; obligation and rebellion; fire and ice; past, present, and future etc.  This is reminiscent too of the dynamic with which Dany grapples 'if I look back I'm lost' vs. 'to go forward I must go back.'  As Jon well knows, his 'little sister' is not the most compliant when it comes to sewing in a straight line (her stitches are 'crooked,' she takes the winding path and is in danger of getting off-track), nor does she relish 'singing in unison' with the rest (unless it's with her Riverlands wolf pack)!  Rather, like 'Atropos' (or Dany, for that matter), Arya's keen on the shears, not so much on the stitches or the measure.  She prefers a more direct approach, 'stick them with the pointy end' and have done -- but there is more to sewing, and life than that!

Interestingly, Jon's quote could also unwittingly  refer to himself.  Consider Bran's dream:

Perhaps when it comes time and Bran calls him -- Jon, like Arya, must remember to return!

Ravenous Reader:  I made a post November 12, 20 12 in my Reread thread that is quite the same as what you have contribute here:

AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Mormont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/76320-agot-reread-direwolves-dragons-eggs-momont%E2%80%99s-raven-and-cats-oh-my-pets-or-providence/&page=15

You may notice some interesting similarities.

“You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers”.

To help you feel a bit more optimistic about these “maybe” providential words, I propose that Jon is “simply” teasing his little sister, trying to boost her spirits about the inequity of life that is such a difficult and all-consuming lesson Arya learns early in her journey. Also, note that Martin does not say “dead body”, which is a good sign.

And here is an Evita “out-of-her-ass” interp: Martin may be “punning” the word sewing with the sound-alike wordSOWING, which means “to plant seed, [transitive and intransitive verb]; to scatter or plant seed on an area of land in order to grow crops” (Encarta Dictionary). Now, If this is a pun, the phrase may intimate a prosperous and fertile future for Arya. Where she will become the mother of many; on the other hand, it may suggest that Arya will be instrumental in fertilizing, tilling, and sowing “new life” or vegetation in efforts to rebuild and repopulate the war torn lands of wherever Arya ends up.

Metaphorically, a pun on sewing / sowing may even refer to Arya’s job of “sowing” a crop ogf dead folk, planting their souls in the nightlands as a religious adjunct to Him of Many Faces. Arya will populate the land hereafter with the souls of the dearly departed, those chosen to receive “the gift” only Him of Many Faces may bestow.

I also am reposting an observation I made in another thread about Arya in this POV, one concerning her sewing with needle and thread:

I wish to reference the first sentence, “Arya’s stitches were crooked again” (68). In Martin's first sentences of his POV’s, I often find a little gem. Martin’s verb choice of “crooked” strikes me as providential, for so much of Arya’s journey through the novels is “crooked” – often off course, in one direction, then another.

Think of the Greek Fates who spin the thread of life. The fates control the destiny, guided by Zeus, of humankind.

Arya seems to be following a path, quite crooked, sewing with her needle just at Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos spin a thread of life. She is even there at the end of some lives.

The Wiki says: In Greek mythology, the Moirai (Ancient Greek: Μοῖραι, "apportioners", Latinized as Moerae)—often known in English as the Fates—were the white-robed incarnations of destiny (Romanequivalent: Parcae, euphemistically the "sparing ones", or Fata; also equivalent to the Germanic Norns). Their number became fixed at three: Clotho (spinner), Lachesis (allotter) and Atropos (unturnable).

They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death. They were independent, at the helm of necessity, directed fate, and watched that the fate assigned to every being by eternal laws might take its course without obstruction. The gods and men had to submit to them, but in the case of Zeus he is portrayed in two ways: as the only one who can command them (the Zeus Moiragetes) or as the one who is also bound to the Moiras as incarnation of the fates.^[1] In the Homeric poems Moira or Aisa, is related with the limit and end of life, and Zeus appears as the guider of destiny. In the Theogony of Hesiod, the threeMoirai are personified, and are acting over the gods.^[2] Later they are daughters of Zeus and Themis, who was the embodiment of divine order and law. In Plato's Republic the Three Fates are daughters of Ananke(necessity). ^{[3](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai)}

[evita mgfs]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

How about frozen fingers is representative of Stark and Old Gods vengeance/anger. Theon feels the frozen fingers because he feels guilt, he is fearful in that passage a ghost is come for vengeance.

In the OP passage, Arya would die with needle locked tight in her frozen fingers, spring wouldn't thaw her. She chose vengeance and there's no coming back.

 

I don't know if it was your intention but there's a pretty good case for it being foreshadowing of Arya killing and taking Theon's face.

Cold descending on him like a wolf = Arya coming for him

a ghost had plucked with frozen fingers = Arya the ghost with frozen fingers, Arya killing him.

hungry to gaze upon his face = It only says gaze but hunger and face can allude to Arya face stealing him.

 

I don't read Bran saying "Theon" as mischievous or taunting, I read it as being said sadly, forlorn. Bran is a benevolent kid really, sweet and gentle, I don't think he has it in him to taunt a broken Theon. What I read is Bran seeing him in his new state for the first time and just realised this broken shattered thing is "Theon". In this chapter Theon fears the Old Gods and Godswood, but it's only after he leaves the Godswood that the ghost comes for him. Later he comes to draw strength from the Old Gods remembering his name.

Perhaps the Old Gods and Godswood that is essentially Bran these days are not the threat to Theon, they're his protection. Protection from Stannis burning or otherwise executing him.

  Reveal hidden contents

Like if he's brought to the tree as Asha suggests and Bran finds a way to communicate to spare him.

And later protection from the ghost, protection from Arya. Arya comes for him, for vengeance with her frozen fingers, but Bran stops her - you can't have this one, I forgave him, the old gods spared him and a King pardoned him. He was punished for his sins and served his penance, the North accepts it, everyone is able to accept it, so who are you to decide otherwise? You who hides, you who are no-one, he saved the girl who took your place, I saw it, you did not, you were not here. I need him, Jon needs him, your homeland needs him and the realm needs him. We need every ally we can muster, including the Iron Islands. He is not yours to kill, judgement is not yours.

A situation like when Arya wanted Sandor executed even though he won his trial, even though the Red God spared him. Arya refused to accept the will of the gods then, but she didn't have the ability to take matters into her own hands. Perhaps she will have done some growing since then by the time she next meets Theon.

Martin's prose can be interpreted in many ways, and I am able to see all sides of an argument.

I merely took a tiny piece from a much larger essay that addresses Bran and his many manifestations.  What you say is much of what I edited out for the sake of length.

The frozen fingers and fingers in general are a small part of a larger motif that Marin threads throughout his novels.

[The Fattest Leech]

On 3/30/2016 at 3:27 AM, chrisdaw said:

I want to discuss this quote that is often used to suggest Arya will die. I don't agree with that interpretation. The quote is foreshadowing Arya's arc, it is the central conflict that she will face. Thankfully it's a pretty simple conflict, No-one or Arya Stark.

Stop hiding, go back to your room.

Stop being no-one, stop being the faceless man, go back to your room, your place, your home, the (only) place that belongs to Arya Stark. The longer you hide, the harder it will be, the harder you will become, the colder you will become. Stop running from the duties, expectations and obligations of Arya Stark, stop being hidden, stop being alone.

Excellent catch! And thank you for bringing this up.

To me, and this will really irritate some good people out there (sorry), the link Jon has to Arya has to do with his desire for identity as a human and a Stark and not as just a bastard. Ever since chapter 1, we are shown that Jon has amazing instincts, even though he doesn't know it yet. He picks up on things that Bran doesn't even know. Arya is described over and over as being like Lyanna and Jon is drawn to that as he is drawn to the crypts without really knowing why. It's actually quite sad. I don't usually root for "heroes", but damn, GRRM caught me with Jon.

On 3/30/2016 at 3:27 AM, chrisdaw said:

 

You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.”

Arya didn’t think it was funny.

The term "parallel" is used a lot around these parts, so let me just add my three irons to that fire. Jon is getting snippets of his mother and doesn't realize it yet, but since Arya is so much like Lyanna in looks and personality, that can be a trigger for him. 

1. He senses what could happen to Arya along her dark path and warns her. He loves his little sister and doesn't want to see history repeat itself.
2. I think the quoted phrase is also as much about Lyanna hiding, then dying, and then the consequences that followed. Howland found Ned and Lyanna still with their hands still clutched together. So let's rephrase it as if it was Ned speaking: "You had best run back to Winterfell, little sister. King Aerys will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance and the realm will bleed. You’ll be hiding and birthing all through winter. When the rescue party comes, I will find your body with a baby and our hands  locked tight between your dying fingers.”
3. Fast forward to Jon's final chapter in Dance and compare it to how Jon is still denying, or hiding, that he is a warg. Basically, he is not taking his own advice. It is not until his last chapters that he accepts that he is like Ghost, that he is like the old gods and that he is like the wildlings. The NW traitors are lurking about and ready to commit the crime. Jon had been complaining about his hand again and wasn't able to get his own needle ready.

It is during the stabbing that we get this: ""For the Watch." Wick slashed at him again. This time Jon caught his wrist and bent his arm back until he dropped the dagger. The gangling steward backed away, his hands upraised as if to say, Not me, it was not me. Men were screaming. Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard."

Just want to add that this is easily the most crack-pot idea I have had to date

[Seams]

I had offered to help move forward the direwolf re-read that had gotten stuck, and the organizers gave me the green light to analyze Jon IX, the AGoT chapter in which Jon deserts the Night's Watch but is brought back by his friends. I ended up writing up too much material for that post, but I was struck by some details there that, I think, tie back into this discussion. Here are the connections I wrote up for that thread but didn't post there:

The chapter begins with Jon conscious of the pain in his burned hand, described as “scarred fingers stiff and clumsy” and “pain throbbed, deep in his fingers”. This might be intended to both compare and contrast with his joking description of Arya’s unhappy future fate if she tries to hide: “The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.” Jon’s fingers were injured by exposure to fire, but they are stiff and clumsy, like frozen fingers. Evita mgfs recently pointed out that the frozen fingers phrase appears again when Theon is doing some soul-searching at the Winterfell godswood, and Bran seems to speak to him:

 

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunched beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face.

 

The pushing back of Theon’s hood also ties into this Jon IX POV, as Jon has deliberately “raised the hood of his heavy cloak” to help him hide as he makes his escape. However, he envisions a reunion with Robb that would involve approaching him in secret and then revealing himself, presumably pushing back his hood so Robb can see his face. Jon’s vision is incomplete, however, as he find himself unable to picture Robb’s smile and instead pictures the execution of the Night’s Watch deserter, when Theon “brought forth Ice” for Ned’s use.

It occurs to me that the hood and the frozen fingers together puts us solidly within the realm of Coldhands. It seems to me that Coldhands is going to have to be a Stark, in some way shape or form. When (if) he is revealed, these other references (Jon/Robb, Bran/Theon) suggest that he will be revealed to a "brother" or psuedo-brother of some kind. Coldhands may also be an oathbreaker of some kind - Jon is a deserter and Theon is a turncloak and possibly a kinslayer at this point.

I admit - I haven't made an exhaustive study of people taking off hoods to reveal their faces. We might have to come up with an explanation of the Shrouded Lord to make the motif complete. This hood/stiff fingers thing could very well tie in to the Shrouded Lord, though, considering Jon Connington's greyscale-afflicted fingers and dying hand.

Another detail in Jon IX struck me while I was scanning the chapter, describing food Jon eats while waiting for Ghost to turn up: "He kept the apple for last. It had gone a little soft, but the flesh was still tart and juicy. He was down to the core when he heard the sounds: horses, from the north." I did a search on apples to see if this might be some kind of "fruit of knowledge" allusion, and I quickly found one other apple eaten down to the core, when Ned is being led to Catelyn at the brothel outside the Red Keep: "When at last he reached the bottom, a narrow, muddy trail along the water's edge, Littlefinger was lazing against a rock and eating an apple. He was almost down to the core."

I include this here because, when Ned finally reaches Catelyn, he "saw her hands then, the awkward way she held them, the raw red scars, the stiffness of the last two fingers on her left." So we have stiff fingers on four Starks now, if you attribute to Bran the frozen fingers on  Theon's hood. And Littlefinger is part of the mix as well. Both Jon and Ned are secretly leaving a castle in these scenes. The information Ned learns from Catelyn leads them to discuss traitorous possibilities - that the King or Queen might have tried to kill Bran. Jon is a traitor because he is deserting. Both Ned and Jon pass brothels that don't interest them. Ned puts the valyrian steel dagger in his belt. The closing words of Jon IX, are Mormont telling Jon, "Now go put on your sword."

Could stiff fingers represent a readiness to do battle? Or is it just a sort of "school of hard knocks" symbol after each Stark has suffered in some way?

Here's another tantalizing tie-in of the Littlefinger scene with this bigger picture: as he leads Ned around, Littlefinger throws in comments that foreshadow at least two major murders. As Ned descends a rock face, Littlefinger foreshadows Lysa's death, saying, "Try not to fall to your death, Catelyn would never understand." When the subject of Varys discovering secrets comes up, Littlefinger assures Catelyn and Ned that he can handle Varys, implying that he knows secrets about that will prevent Varys from using information against them, "You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that." This seems like an allusion to Joffrey's death. But Littlefinger's first foreshadowed murder in this scene was this statement to Ned: "I'm leading you to the dungeons to slit your throat and seal your corpse behind a wall." The reader knows, in retrospect, that Ned was imprisoned in the dungeon of the Red Keep, he has his head cut off and . . . corpse behind a wall? Could this be another Coldhands connection? A corpse behind The Wall?

 

 

[Seams]

Found another example. Very interesting to note that Cersei has more-or-less "frozen fingers" clutching Joffrey's body at the wedding reception:

Her gown was torn and stained, her face white as chalk. A thin black dog crept up beside her, sniffing at Joffrey’s corpse. “The boy is gone, Cersei,” Lord Tywin said. He put his gloved hand on his daughter’s shoulder as one of his guardsmen shooed away the dog. “Unhand him now. Let him go.” She did not hear. It took two Kingsguard to pry loose her fingers, so the body of King Joffrey Baratheon could slide limp and lifeless to the floor.

Her face being white as chalk ties into the winter (white = snow) imagery that appears in the Arya "frozen fingers" quote in the OP. I am increasingly convinced that people in ASOIAF personify weapons, and that other characters wield these people-weapons in an ongoing battle with their enemies. So the death of Joffrey may represent Cersei losing a sword. This would fit with the OP, where Jon jokes about Arya clutching a needle in her frozen fingers when the reader knows Arya's sword is named Needle. Catelyn's and Jon's "frozen" (wounded, burned) fingers are the result of literal combat: Catelyn grasping the dagger sent to kill Bran and Jon burning his hand defending against the wight.

Another interesting point in this scene is that Cersei's hands are on Joffrey, but Tywin's hand is on Cersei. Joffrey was her weapon, and she is Tywin's weapon?