Reed and Benjen Question

[Jack Sceltun]

What am I missing?

1. How does someone, who was one of the two survivors at the Tower of Joy, get beat up by a few squires?

2. How does Ned summon Benjen for....a feast?

Thanks! 

[kissdbyfire]

1 - going by the age of the Starks at the time, HR was a teenger at the time of the tourney. And it was three against one. We also don't know how it all went down at the ToJ. Many speculate that HR caught Dayne in a net, or with a poisoned arrow/dart/whatever. 

2 - raven.

[Macgregor of the North]

Yup I'll second Kissed by fires answer on Reed. I think he was always small in stature by the sounds of it and was overwhelmed by odds and the fact he's not a big fighter type and wasn't prepared for the onslaught. 

At the tower of joy he knew the peril and I think armed himself with all the devious tools of warfare that Crannogmen use and was prepared to fight that day.

Because Neds team had fighters to engage with the Kingsguard it left Howland time to possibly circle the outskirts of the battle stabbing in with a poisonous spear maybe or perhaps sharp throwing weapons from distance, and like stated above, possibly using nets to hinder the KG's attacks. I wonder if he even maybe played a part in the other KG's defeat from the outskirts also. 

[DarkSister1001]

Welcome!

I agree with the previous two posts.  Being picked on by 3 larger, tougher guys isn't the same as fighting 3 with 6 others at your side. 

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

For point 2, do you mean how was Benjen allowed to leave his post at the wall for a feast at his brother's?  

If so, I think the Lord Commander would see it as an opportunity to get more support and some new recruits. Also, a really good opportunity to request support/men from Kingslanding without having to go beyond Winterfell.

[Macgregor of the North]

13 minutes ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

For point 2, do you mean how was Benjen allowed to leave his post at the wall for a feast at his brother's?  

If so, I think the Lord Commander would see it as an opportunity to get more support and some new recruits. Also, a really good opportunity to request support/men from Kingslanding without having to go beyond Winterfell.

That's actually a great answer for number two. I always thought it was just Georges way to introduce Benjen to the current story and also the means to have Jon placed at the wall but this adds more depth and meaning to the visit so well done. 

[DarkSister1001]

11 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

That's actually a great answer for number two. I always thought it was just Georges way to introduce Benjen to the current story and also the means to have Jon placed at the wall but this adds more depth and meaning to the visit so well done. 

Especially when you think about the way he almost begged Tyrion, "your the queens brother, tell them of our need!". 

[Raven_Osiris]

13 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

If so, I think the Lord Commander would see it as an opportunity to get more support and some new recruits. Also, a really good opportunity to request support/men from Kingslanding without having to go beyond Winterfell.

This. The LC sees that the King is travelling north and figures it's the quickest way to get some new recruits without having to go all the way to KL. Benjen being Ned's brother simply means he is the one most likely to get his request listened to by someone in the Kings company.

[Jack Sceltun]

Thank you for the helpful replies!

[SevasTra82]

On 4/2/2016 at 3:48 PM, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

For point 2, do you mean how was Benjen allowed to leave his post at the wall for a feast at his brother's?  

If so, I think the Lord Commander would see it as an opportunity to get more support and some new recruits. Also, a really good opportunity to request support/men from Kingslanding without having to go beyond Winterfell.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the book point this out in some fashion?  I feel like I remember reading somewhere that the LC sends out envoys for new recruits, and Benjen is oftentimes a part of this envoy.  After all, this is how Jon winds up at the wall in the first place...being recruited by Benjen.

 

[tallTale]

Howland Reed is a huge mystery.

He supposedly gets beat up by three squires, yet Ned felt him a competent enough warrior to take with him on a dangerous mission to save his sister.

[Jack Sceltun]

On 4/2/2016 at 8:48 PM, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

For point 2, do you mean how was Benjen allowed to leave his post at the wall for a feast at his brother's?  

If so, I think the Lord Commander would see it as an opportunity to get more support and some new recruits. Also, a really good opportunity to request support/men from Kingslanding without having to go beyond Winterfell.

After further inspection the original idea for contacted Ben was Cat's. A bit strange.

"We should send word to your brother on the Wall." Cat I

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, Jack Sceltun said:

After further inspection the original idea for contacted Ben was Cat's. A bit strange.

"We should send word to your brother on the Wall." Cat I

Cat could have already in her head saw that Ned would be going south as its obvious Robert is coming to make Ned hand. Then she sees an opportune moment to get Jon shipped off away from her, and WF, so she jumps at the chance to get Benjen down from the wall and instigate Jon getting sent from WF. To be honest Ned would have invited Ben anyway but Cat gives him no time to even think it through, she is all over it. 

Now I think on it, she has probably been looking for this opportunity Jons whole life and now it's here she's jumped on the chance to pull strings to make it more possible.

[Clegane'sPup]

On 4/2/2016 at 4:28 AM, Jack Sceltun said:

What am I missing?

1. How does someone, who was one of the two survivors at the Tower of Joy, get beat up by a few squires?

2. How does Ned summon Benjen for....a feast?

Thanks! 

If you are asking why LC Mormont honored the request to allow Benjen to go to WF for a feast, I would say that that there is a long standing relationship between the NW and the Starks. Besides the feast was for the King of the Seven Kingdoms and it would be good PR to have a member of the NW there. WF is the seat of the Warden of the North, who at the time is Eddard. 

In one of Jon’s chapters in one of these books somewhere, Mance tells Jon that as a young member of the NW he [Mance] was among a group of NW’s men who visited WF with LC Qorgyle so that Qorgyle and Eddard could talk business.

It seems to me that members of the NW are allowed to leave the Wall under certain circumstances. Yoren would be an example.

LC Mormont did turn down Tyrion’s request to have Jon tag along on Tyrion’s return trip south saying the new recruit was to green (paraphrasing).

As to Cat suggesting Benjen being notified I got nothing except maybe good manners & love for her husband. Supposedly Eddard has been home from the war for about 14 years. Benjen was the Stark in WF while Eddard was away and I don’t know how soon Benjen joined the NW after Eddard returned.

Maybe Benjen had in the past been an envoy between House Stark & the NW and maybe the LC sent out other men to the various House’s of the north to curry favor.

I’m gonna have to think on the Howland question because it has in the past struck me as odd that Howland was traveling with Eddard.

[Chris Mormont]

It appears that Benjen had been back to WF before the feast, Jon and Benjen recognize each other and their interaction leads me to believe they have spent some time together. 

Starks, who volunteer for the Wall probably have some privileges.

I find it odd that Mormont doesn't take the opportunity to come see Robert and personally plea for help.  I think Ned suggests to Robert to go see the Wall, but let's face it, Robert is too lazy to go to a place where he can't hunt or whore.

[Dorian Martell]

On 4/2/2016 at 1:28 AM, Jack Sceltun said:

What am I missing?

1. How does someone, who was one of the two survivors at the Tower of Joy, get beat up by a few squires?

2. How does Ned summon Benjen for....a feast?

Thanks! 

1: He is rather small and was outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1. 
2: Raven express  

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

On 6.04.2016 at 4:11 PM, tallTale said:

Howland Reed is a huge mystery.

He supposedly gets beat up by three squires, yet Ned felt him a competent enough warrior to take with him on a dangerous mission to save his sister.

Maybe that wasn't the case of "Reed, I want you to go with me", but rather "Just fucking try to stop me from going with you, Lord Stark". Plus, a smart guy on the team can be pretty useful in his own right, even if he lacks in the ass-kicking department.

Another ostensibly weak link on Ned's team would've been Ethan Glover, who had spent the entire year enjoying Aerys Targaryen's hospitality in some dungeon. Ned took him south all the same.

[Clegane'sPup]

24 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Another ostensibly weak link on Ned's team would've been Ethan Glover,

That is another question I ponder. Why was Ethan, Brandon's squire part of Eddard's group.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

This could tie into the theory that Catelyn and Benjen had an affair when she first came to Winterfell, while Ned was away.  She may have a thing for him still.

[Rob Storm]

42 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

That is another question I ponder. Why was Ethan, Brandon's squire part of Eddard's group.

I have always kind of assumed Ned didn't anticipate as formidable of a force to fight while rescuing his sister after the war was all but over.  My opinion at least was that he brought along individuals he trusted from noble northern houses rather than simply the best fighters he could acquire for a more diplomatic solution than a bloody one.  Again, just my opinion based on the individuals and the sheer lack of numbers Ned brought.

As for Ethan (just my own thoughts since we have little info) it could be simply that he was devoted to Brandon as we have seen from various squire's in our story and wanted to help his remaining kin in Ned and Lyanna.