Will Theon ever become king of the Iron Islands?

[jbent87]

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.  What could that be about if not Theon?

RT

[Dorian Martell]

36 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

The theory is well known. We will have to wait and see i guess.  I was just saying that the fact that he has no penis could be no problem, since he could very well have a son if the author wants.

 

He is weak and broken, for now. Many things can change. He could "rise stronger" as the saying goes.

how can he "Rise Stronger" with his junk removed?

 

 

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

I just don't see it happening. The Ironborn respect physical strength and Theon can barely feed himself, let alone fight. Plus he's a eunuch, so no heirs. It'd be a self-terminating dynasty. I think Theon's only possible contribution to Greyjoy politics at this point is invalidating Euron's victory at the Kingsmoot (because of the historical precedent that has already been discussed - Theon has a claim, he was not present, therefore Kingsmoot in invalid).

That's assuming Stannis doesn't kill him, anyway. I guess the central problem with the Kingsmoot invalidation plan is the whole "what now?" factor. It'd be a good plan if Theon was a suitable candidate for king, but he's not. Hell, at this stage you'd have a hard time even convincing people he's Theon! He looks completely different. If I'm Joe Ironborn Captain, I'd be like, "Okay, Euron's coronation wasn't valid, what now? I didn't want Victarion, I didn't want Asha, I don't want this broken creature calling himself Theon. So who do I go with? Probably still Euron. Especially if he gets those dragons."

Without a suitable substitute, Euron stays king through inertia.

[Lord Cadwan]

There is no proof in the books that Theon is a eunuch-people always sight the bit of text where Ramsay says 'Reek get her ready for me' and Theon says 'I cant I have no...'. I don' think Theon is reffering to his penis here as it is unlikely he would be getting Jeyne 'ready' with his penis-Theon is probably about to say he has no right or something to that respect. As I believe he has a penis I believe there is nothing stopping him becoming King of the Iron Islands as per Torgon the latecomer and rising again harder and stronger as Theon died and became Reek and yet now Theon is again the title of his POV chapters and so he has been reborn.

[aryagonnakill#2]

12 minutes ago, Tyrion Stokeworth said:

I just don't see it happening. The Ironborn respect physical strength and Theon can barely feed himself, let alone fight. Plus he's a eunuch, so no heirs. It'd be a self-terminating dynasty. I think Theon's only possible contribution to Greyjoy politics at this point is invalidating Euron's victory at the Kingsmoot (because of the historical precedent that has already been discussed - Theon has a claim, he was not present, therefore Kingsmoot in invalid).

That's assuming Stannis doesn't kill him, anyway. I guess the central problem with the Kingsmoot invalidation plan is the whole "what now?" factor. It'd be a good plan if Theon was a suitable candidate for king, but he's not. Hell, at this stage you'd have a hard time even convincing people he's Theon! He looks completely different. If I'm Joe Ironborn Captain, I'd be like, "Okay, Euron's coronation wasn't valid, what now? I didn't want Victarion, I didn't want Asha, I don't want this broken creature calling himself Theon. So who do I go with? Probably still Euron. Especially if he gets those dragons."

Without a suitable substitute, Euron stays king through inertia.

The story of the Kingsmoot that was recalled by the latecomer was laid out so that Goodbrother(nicknamed bad brother) had made a lot of enemies on the isles by the time the kingsmoot was recalled.  He was drowned by his own men before the kingsmoot even occurred.  If Euron attacks Oldtown and fails leading to thousands of dead Ironborn, the next Kingsmoot could go another way.  Especially if Asha asks what happened to the Iron fleet, their very best ships sent across the world right before they attacked a large city like Oldtown.  It would make Euron seem completely incompetent, and without Victarion there to split the vote, Asha would take the crown.

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

I think there's enough textual evidence to make Theon's unmanning a very, very strong possibility. Obviously there's a lot of debate. Personally I think the fact that he's been broken physically, mentally, and emotionally is quite enough to invalidate his chances of being accepted as king of the Iron Islands.

aryagonnakill#2 says

"If Euron attacks Oldtown and fails leading to thousands of dead Ironborn, the next Kingsmoot could go another way.  Especially if Asha asks what happened to the Iron fleet, their very best ships sent across the world right before they attacked a large city like Oldtown.  It would make Euron seem completely incompetent, and without Victarion there to split the vote, Asha would take the crown. "

This is an excellent point, especially regarding Victarion not being there to split the vote. As most Republican primary voters can tell you, the presence or absence of a spoiler candidate can make a big difference in an election.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Aeron as priest king is a possibility to consider.

The conflict in the Iron Islands is not about, theon vs asha (ACOK), or Aeron vs Euron (AFFC), or Victarion vs Euron (ADWD).. its about the Old Ways and New ways. Thats the historic dispute.

I think Theon will return, the kingsmot will be cancelled, and Aeron will try to crown himself as a Priest King leading the ironborn who support the Old Ways. Theon on the other hand will lead the progressive Ironborn.

 

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

1 hour ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

Aeron as priest king is a possibility to consider.

The conflict in the Iron Islands is not about, theon vs asha (ACOK), or Aeron vs Euron (AFFC), or Victarion vs Euron (ADWD).. its about the Old Ways and New ways. Thats the historic dispute.

I think Theon will return, the kingsmot will be cancelled, and Aeron will try to crown himself as a Priest King leading the ironborn who support the Old Ways. Theon on the other hand will lead the progressive Ironborn.

 

You're right on the central conflict on the Iron Islands IMO. Any progressive political movement will be led by Asha, though. Theon's in no shape to inspire anybody. You're right on Aeron still being a factor. I think we'll see him again...as much as he dislikes the idea of a woman on the Seastone Chair, it's better for him than Euron "Rusty Hinge" Greyjoy.

The one thing that I just can't see is the Ironborn rallying around Theon. The Erik Anvil-Breaker bit at the Kingsmoot show how much importance the Ironborn put on physical strength in a King (or Queen?)

[JonisHenryTudor]

No. 

[Scorpion92]

I believe Theon will become a manifestation of Drowned God religion, someone who is already dead in all but physical form, but will rise again harder and stronger.

I believe he will return to Iron Isles and have ideological and religious confrontation with Aeron Damphair who will become Priest King of Iron Isles. Theon will become an agent or prophet of Old Gods (Bran in reality) and warn ironborn to change their ways and become part of mainland because he has foreseen a destruction coming. Kinda like Moses coming back to Egypt and leading Jews out of there to Promised Land. Initially, he will be laughed at and humiliated probably,but after the catastrophe hits...

A big cataclysmic disaster will befall on Iron Isles during winter, I believe, and Bran has foreseen it. I think Hammer of Waters, whatever it really is (after LmL's essays I believe it will be a moon meteor striking in the ocean and raising gigantic tsunamis), will fall on Iron Isles. Those who followed Aeron will drown with their priest king, as ironic as it sounds. Survivors will realize Theon is indeed speaking on behalf of gods and follow him to Promised Land (Cape Kraken in the North, in my opinion).

I think Theon will complete his grandfather Quellon Greyjoys' work of merging with mainland. Not only Drowned God religion and ironborn will get integrated into Westerosi new religion and society through Theon, I believe there is a reason why Martin sent Arya to Braavos, a city where there is absolute religious tolerance to any kind of faith. We also see Brotherhood without Banners consisting of people of different religions, yet coexisting and calling each other brothers.

I think Bran will be this ultimate force behind the scenes that will create some unique religion, that will consist of all these known ones. People need something powerful to believe in, especially after world altering catastrophe that is about to come. He has his agents all over: High Septon (who I believe is Howland Reed, and yes, I believe it wholeheartedly) and Faith of the Seven; Theon and Drowned God; Arya and Many Faced God; Melisandre (who I believe receives her visions from Bran from the future) and R'hillor, etc. There is a theme of a new beginning - "a spring" - which I think involves creation not only of a new government and social structure, but also religion. 

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

19 minutes ago, Tyrion Stokeworth said:

You're right on the central conflict on the Iron Islands IMO. Any progressive political movement will be led by Asha, though. Theon's in no shape to inspire anybody. You're right on Aeron still being a factor. I think we'll see him again...as much as he dislikes the idea of a woman on the Seastone Chair, it's better for him than Euron "Rusty Hinge" Greyjoy.

The one thing that I just can't see is the Ironborn rallying around Theon. The Erik Anvil-Breaker bit at the Kingsmoot show how much importance the Ironborn put on physical strength in a King (or Queen?)

 

I don´t see people like the Reader or Baelor Blacktyde, caring for physical strength.. Many others will follow their lead if the Ironborn suffer a huge defeat in the Reach.

Thats what i meant with the progressive wing.  Not all of them are fools.

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

2 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

I don´t see people like the Reader or Baelor Blacktyde, caring for physical strength.. Many others will follow their lead if the Ironborn suffer a huge defeat in the Reach.

Thats what i meant with the progressive wing.  Not all of them are fools.

This is a good point, Asha has a constituency - with Theon in tow (assuming Stannis neglects to burn him, which is a possibility given the Mance/Rattleshirt switcheroo...though Mel isn't around to glamour anymore) she could very well win the queenship on her 2nd try. Bearing in mind what Aryagonnakill said about Victarion not being around to play spoiler anymore, she could have a real shot. She would even have a good chance of getting Damphair's tacit cooperation (which would be necessary for invalidating the Kingsmoot - he called it in the first place, after all), since to Aeron she is a preferable candidate to Crow's Eye.

 

[Rosetta Stone]

Asha is the next likely leader of the Iron Islands.  They need her or someone reasonable like Rodrik the Reader.

[Sir Matthis Light]

4 hours ago, marsyao said:

Of course an eunuch could not be a King, but still Theon, as son of the former King, has his right to compete in the Kingsmoot, since he was not present, the result of the Kingsmoot would not be valid, this is a perfect excuse for those not satisfy about the result of the Kingsmoot, and based on this execuse, they could ask a second round of Kingsmoot

 

Yeah but the question was "Will Theon ever be King of The Iron Islands?" which is most likely no. The Ironborn have a history of only electing Strong,Ambitous,and Cruel people to sit the Seastone chair, and Theon is to broken and feeble now, but I do agree with the bold also.

Asha,Victarion, or even Aeron could use Theon to cancel out Euron Kingship, now that Asha knows hes alive, thats if Stannis lets him live, which knowing the Mannis is more then likely no.

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

1 hour ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

Asha,Victarion, or even Aeron could use Theon to cancel out Euron Kingship, now that Asha knows hes alive, thats if Stannis lets him live, which knowing the Mannis is more then likely no.

Aeron is the key to calling a new Kingsmoot. Without the legitimacy conferred by his religious position a call for a new Kingsmoot would just look like sour grapes on the part of an unsuccessful claimant, especially since Theon's identity would be questioned (since he looks nothing like the Theon who left Pyke at the beginning of ACOK).

 

[House Crane]

Theory:

Theon makes Ramsay into a Reek for his own bastard son (from that captain's daughter) to torment 

[Sir Matthis Light]

17 minutes ago, House Crane said:

Theory:

Theon makes Ramsay into a Reek for his own bastard son (from that captain's daughter) to torment 

That sounds more like Wishful thinking

[Lord Lannister]

As things stand right now, Theon is damaged goods. He'd have to demonstrate that's not irreparably damaged before he could consider this. Helping Jeyne escape might have been a first step towards that.

[Gertrude]

I think Theon will emerge stronger than he is right now (as noted by many others). I think people are too focused on how broken and weak he is under Ramsey. He is already in the process of gaining himself back. No, I don't think he will ever be physically strong again, but he will be stronger. I also think him having a penis or not is irrelevant. If he is to be king (well, actually I don't think there will be a King of the Iron Isles, just the leader/Lord Paramount by the end of the story) he can name Asha and her children as heirs. It's not like the moment they declare him King/leader/whatever, they are going to do a quick check under the hood. No one knows, and if there are rumors or suspicions, it will be after he has had time to establish his rule.

At the very least, I think Asha will use him to call a new Kingsmoot and one or the other of them will come out on top. I happen to think it will be Theon, with Asha giving him council behind the scenes. I also think something drastic has to happen to the fleet in the Reach that makes the more bloodthirsty of the Iron Islanders rethink their support for Euron. Maybe it's just that those that followed Euron in his raid will be largely killed off and the more thoughtful ones left will favor a less violent philosophy.

I don't think Theon will have a particularly happy life, but I also think he survives and carves out a place for himself. I don't see him fading into obscurity.

[Tyrion Stokeworth]

Theon just seems to be in such a bad physical, mental, and emotional shape that it's very difficult to see him rising up and coming back without some kind of big time jump. He's in his early twenties and he's described as looking like an old man. I just can't see him getting up in front of a Kingsmoot and making a pitch. I'm hearing this Drowned God stuff, and hey, maybe you're right. It could be legit foreshadowing. I just don't see it though. He is in such incredibly bad shape. Even if I was Rodrik the Reader or somebody, who doesn't require his king to be Viking McAction, my reaction to Theon would be, "whoa, this guy is a wreck. Serious post-broken man stress disorder going on here. Uhhhh, you still got my vote, Asha."

And frankly, I think it'd be more appropriate to Theon's arc as a character that he not be a king. Delusions of grandeur were what got him into the Bolton's tender ministrations in the first place. I'd be happy if Theon came out of this comfortable with himself in some form or fashion, able to cope with the awful things that had happened to him in a healthy way. Trying to become king against all odds....doesn't seem like a good way to do that.