Stannis's role in the death of King Robert Baratheon

[Marcus Agrippa]

Just now, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I mean they're both pretty similar in many respects but Daenerys' sex life would suffer tremendously 

Oh, they have a very similar arc as well. Just both sides are so insaning that it's a lot like Bernie sandors and Hillary Clinton.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 minute ago, Marcus Agrippa said:

Oh, they have a very similar arc as well. Just both sides are so insaning that it's a lot like Bernie sandors and Hillary Clinton.

You mean Trump "we should commit war crime by killing Muslim families" and Cruz, " I will insult you for not letting people die in the streets like me", don't you? 

Which I would disagree with.

But yeah I can kinda compare Dany and Stannis to Bernie and Hillary.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

5 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

You mean Trump "we should commit war crime by killing Muslim families" and Cruz, " I will insult you for not letting people die in the streets like me", don't you? 

Which I would disagree with.

But yeah I can kinda compare Dany and Stannis to Bernie and Hillary.

No way. Dany and Stannis are more like Trump and Bernie with their uncompromising ideologies. Hilary is the pragmatic choice who gets shit done. She is Tywin.

[Marcus Agrippa]

10 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

You mean Trump "we should commit war crime by killing Muslim families" and Cruz, " I will insult you for not letting people die in the streets like me", don't you? 

Which I would disagree with.

But yeah I can kinda compare Dany and Stannis to Bernie and Hillary.

Just their fans. I support no one. I want a scientist like Merkel, not these actors. Bernie might be an honest guy, still doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. Hillary is just politician 90's. No real difference in the end result with either of them. The house belongs to the republicians.

[GallowsKnight]

7 hours ago, Sullen said:

Cersei tried to kill Robert at the Hand's Tourney, way before Eddard ever seriously started investigating.

The only evidence for this is either Varys or Littlefinger's word I can't remember which. Both have established clear alternative agendas by now. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

4 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

No way. Dany and Stannis are more like Trump and Bernie with their uncompromising ideologies. Hilary is the pragmatic choice who gets shit done. She is Tywin.

Neither is like Trump then because Trump doesn't have an uncompromising ideology. He just panders to his crowd 

I'd say Dany and Stannis are both half-way between Bernie and Hillary. 

Tywin is more like Dick Cheney rather than Hillary. Evil person, the man behind the man and completely ruthless in achieving his own ends which doesn't always coincide with the state's

Hillary at least has some type of moral compass

[Lord_Ravenstone]

7 minutes ago, Marcus Agrippa said:

Just their fans. I support no one. I want a scientist like Merkel, not these actors. Bernie might be an honest guy, still doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. Hillary is just politician 90's. No real difference in the end result with either of them. The house belongs to the republicians.

Qyburn for the Iron Throne

[khal drogon]

36 minutes ago, Marcus Agrippa said:

Stannis and Daenerys being married and king and queen would have been my perfect ending, more or less to end the constant war between these two groups in the fandom.

It is better than Jon Dany though. 

[Stag_legion]

20 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Neither is like Trump then because Trump doesn't have an uncompromising ideology. He just panders to his crowd 

I'd say Dany and Stannis are both half-way between Bernie and Hillary. 

Tywin is more like Dick Cheney rather than Hillary. Evil person, the man behind the man and completely ruthless in achieving his own ends which doesn't always coincide with the state's

Hillary at least has some type of moral compass

Not really she may not be as crazy sounding as Trump, but her record is perhaps even more troubling than Trump's.

Hillary is like a less creepy female version of Roose bolton, incredibly dishonest and goes where the political current takes her.

 

Sanders on the other hand is your Ned stark. He's willing to take the hard, unpopular way if its the right thing to do.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

24 minutes ago, Stag_legion said:

Not really she may not be as crazy sounding as Trump, but her record is perhaps even more troubling than Trump's.

Hillary is like a less creepy female version of Roose bolton, incredibly dishonest and goes where the political current takes her.

 

Sanders on the other hand is your Ned stark. He's willing to take the hard, unpopular way if its the right thing to do.

I mean that's only if you take Hillary's perceived worst features into account without any of the good 

Ned Stark only resembles Sanders in character but without any of the challenge to the established order 

[Stag_legion]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I mean that's only if you take Hillary's perceived worst features into account without any of the good 

Ned Stark only resembles Sanders in character but not in ideology 

What are Hillary's good traits though? The fact that on surface she has adopted some good polices only after the said policy became mainstream and accepted, but she opposed it when it was unpopular?

Of course Sanders doesn't have the same ideology as Ned, they live in different societies. 

 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

37 minutes ago, Stag_legion said:

What are Hillary's good traits though? The fact that on surface she has adopted some good polices only after the said policy became mainstream and accepted, but she opposed it when it was unpopular?

Of course Sanders doesn't have the same ideology as Ned, they live in different societies. 

 

Some may consider that to be a good trait as some people believe that politicians should do what the people want and if that changes then you should to. And flexibility is a good thing 

 

I mean I guess that she's at least effective and she's not someone I'd consider a bad person. Damning by faint praise I know but Trump and Cruz are awful people and she's just not even close to them in terms of morality 

 

I edited that. I meant more like Ned doesn't really want to uproot the established order. Although you could make a claim that ousting the Lannisters is pretty similar to trying to take the corruption out of politics 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1 hour ago, Stag_legion said:

Sanders on the other hand is your Ned stark. He's willing to take the hard, unpopular way if its the right thing to do.

Sanders is a populist with little evidence that any of his ideology will actually work. He is pretty far removed from Ned, who believes 100% in the system/establishment (Garret being executed, sickened by Jaime killing his King).

The only two similarities I can see are both seem pretty stubborn and  that should Bernie somehow win the nomination and not be obliterated in the press by the Republicans he will be as out of his depth as a President as Ned was as Hand.

 

[JLE]

Back to answering the original post: I suspect that Stannis was busy trying to gather support - if he told Robert the truth, there was a chance that Robert would not believe him and he would lose his head for treason (after all, casting doubt on Joffrey's paternity COULD have been seen as a slander aimed at becoming Robert's heir, and no doubt Cersei and chums would have painted it this way). So if he told the truth to Robert, then the truth would not come out, and he would die for it anyway, and legitimacy would die with him - leaving only Renly: and I believe, based on the Stannis / Renly conversation, that we can take it as read that Stannis knows all about Renly's preferences, and that there will be no heirs from him, Renly himself is both a scandal and a succession crisis in waiting.

All of which doesn't make it difficult to foresee that war is coming. Robert clearly had a death wish, and if he wasn't poisoned or stabbed he was going to drink himself to death anyway, he was not long for this world: Renly was already plotting rebellion, as well, against the Lannister children no matter whether they were legitimate or not, he didn't even care - and possibly even against Robert himself - you don't get together an army the size of the Tyrells' at a moment's notice, the preparations for gathering it would have had to be made while Robert was still alive, which suggests that Renly was gambling on Robert either not lasting much longer (which is what happened), or being unfit and incapable of commanding. So Stannis shipped off to Dragonstone in the hope of gathering what he could, of an army of his own.

Unfortunately his efforts did not meet with great success, since (while Robert was alive) he obviously could not be seen to be gathering a rival army in case it was perceived as rebellious even though it was not. And because many others were already flocking to the popular-but-ineffectual Renly, with his friendship with the Tyrells seen as a possible counterbalance to the Lannisters. Only in ships could Stannis gather a significant force - because it was part of his job as Master of Ships, and because he had the excuse of maintaining the navy that he had been running ever since the campaign against the rebellious ironborn under Balon Greyjoy. Even with them, he would have been in no position to win a pitched battle: his only hope would have been to go into a hopeless battle against Renly and order his men, at all costs, to break through to Renly personally and kill him (something which Renly himself might just have been dumb enough to assist with, wearing his own splendid armour and insisting on acting like his brother who fought in the front lines at all times, he would have made a perfect target of himself, and without Renly, the rest of the Stormlanders have nowhere to go but back to Stannis.)

[ForTheNorth]

Bernie Sanders is Aegon V the unlikely

Wants to make things better for the small folk and change the system

Hillary is Dany(so far in the story), willing to compromise to a fault, make deals with evil men(for the greater good) and thus just another tool of the system 

Trump is Littlefinger, wants great power and is good at getting it but wouldn't know what to do if he got it 

Obama is Renly. Pretty to look at but not worth all that much in the end

Stannis is Putin

Tywin is Pinochet 

 

[Stag_legion]

Stannis doesn't really have a good analogy in current politics. Stannis is both revolutionary and conservative in different aspects, and the fact that he promotes melisandre's religion while not really believing in it also makes it hard to categorize him.

[Stag_legion]

31 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Sanders is a populist with little evidence that any of his ideology will actually work. He is pretty far removed from Ned, who believes 100% in the system/establishment (Garret being executed, sickened by Jaime killing his King).

The only two similarities I can see are both seem pretty stubborn and  that should Bernie somehow win the nomination and not be obliterated in the press by the Republicans he will be as out of his depth as a President as Ned was as Hand.

 

You mean beside opposing the Iraq war and panama ordeal, both of which clearly show he made the right judgement. There are also lots of evidence on the economic side that a reduction in wealth polarization promoted by sanders would lead to healthier more active economy because the lower class has more money to spend.

Polls actually show that Sanders would win Republicans in general election by a bigger margin than Clinton. So I don't really agree with that comparison. I think after the Dem nomination Sanders is pretty much guaranteed to win. Sanders is Azor Ahai  FDR come again

[ForTheNorth]

11 minutes ago, Stag_legion said:

Stannis doesn't really have a good analogy in current politics. Stannis is both revolutionary and conservative in different aspects, and the fact that he promotes melisandre's religion while not really believing in it also makes it hard to categorize him.

That's why I chose Putin. Putin is an imperialist who believes in the old Russian empire. Meaning all the countries who broke away after the dissolution of the Soviet Union without believing in the corrupt policies of the Soviets. Same way Stannis was uncompromising when it came to the North 

Another point is the way he rid Russia of mob and corporate corruption the same as Stannis promised to do to the court in Kingslanding

He also is allied with the Eastern Orthodox Church for power purposes while I doubt he has any concrete religious beliefs 

Finally he has a sense of justice that would seem cruel to outside observers and both were military men before gaining kingship 

 

[Stag_legion]

1 minute ago, ForTheNorth said:

That's why I chose Putin. Putin is an imperialist who believes in the old Russian empire. Meaning all the countries who broke away after the dissolution of the Soviet Union without believing in the corrupt policies of the Soviets. 

Another point is the way he rid Russia of mob and corporate corruption the same as Stannis promised to do

He also is allied with the Eastern Orthodox Church for power purposes while I doubt he has any concrete religious beliefs 

Finally he has a sense of justice that would seem cruel to outside observers 

 

Good comparison, though I think stannis is perhaps less aggressive than Putin in many regards. But there are some general similarities.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

8 minutes ago, Stag_legion said:

You mean beside opposing the Iraq war and panama ordeal, both of which clearly show he made the right judgement. There are also lots of evidence on the economic side that a reduction in wealth polarization promoted by sanders would lead to healthier more active economy because the lower class has more money to spend.

He has no idea if his ideas are even possible. When asked how he would dismantle banks he refused to answer.

It is all very well giving populist ideas that beneift everyone but he has no idea if they will work or not.

8 minutes ago, Stag_legion said:

Polls actually show that Sanders would win Republicans in general election by a bigger margin than Clinton. So I don't really agree with that comparison. I think after the Dem nomination Sanders is pretty much guaranteed to win. Sanders is Azor Ahai  FDR come again

Well that is because most of America don't know much about him and Hilary's campaign has been pretty gentle about him. If he should somehow win California and New York then the attacks will start.

Most of America don't know about his short story about women enjoying rape, or his comments about how breadlines are good or the fact that he was basically unemployed till he became a career politician in his (iirc) late 30's.  The Republicans will tear him to shreds.

He has been allowed to fly under the radar because no one expects him to win the nomination and the longer he stays in the race the more money and effort Hilary has to spend sowing up the nomination.