Tianzi Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 45 minutes ago, Darksky said: I repeat, it's such a non-issue unless there pops a little Bolton baby (bastard in the loyalists' eyes as they're rejecting Tommen as the rightful king). I'd say that a bastard in everyone's eyes, since in KL Sansa is seen as the king's aunt by marriage, as nobody has annulled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Le Cygne said: I think Littlefinger is her big conflict. And he doesn't want to share power. I think she did have a role in the downfall of her family, and it wouldn't make sense for her to end up queen, that would be all wrong. I think she needs to show that she's grown, by doing things out of love, for others. Downfall, she had a part a small but important part, she removed the last small percentage of a chance to get her Jeyne Poole and Arya out of KL, the other stuff falls directly on Ned going to the Godswood to confront Cersei, Cersi and LF and Joff and Slynt were going to prevent Ned from doing that at any cost. Caitlyn taking Tyrion at the inn was another, Lysa sending that false letter another. Arya hitting the Prince was another. No the downfall was before Sansa and Arya even made it to Darry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 GRRM: Quote Sansa was the least sympathetic of the Starks in the first book; she has become more sympathetic, partly because she comes to accept responsibility for her part in her father's death. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=49161 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said: She did do it willingly. It is confusing at Moat Caillin in the Littlefinger convinces her scene as it looks like she is doing so, so as to take the path of "least resistance". However, at Winterfell, before the wedding, she does seem to kinda like Ramsay, although Myranda unnerves her. The code name for the wedding rape scene on the set was "romance dies" so, yeah, they had Sansa "liking" Ramsay and even the former costume designer, who designed Sansa's wedding dress to specifically be easily "ripped" says that she was looking forward to starting a family with Ramsay. If she says she was forced to, then she must directly implicate Littlefinger and that would mean his death by atleast the Vale Lords if they find out. It looks like Bran is leaving that cave in the trailers and not just in the visions. What the hell are you smoking! nowhere does she show any love or trust of the Boltons, Ramsey in particular. And all saying she had a choice, she had no real choice even D & W saying so is counter to what they visually showed; a real choice would have been telling her at the inn or the Eyrie not in the middle of nowhere and if she still said no, LF take her to the nearest town and have the Boltons get her there. How it plays out I don't know, but as I said before and others are saying here her sacrifice does not have to end with her dying it could be she stays in a marriage she doesn't want to keep her house alive and the realm together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: GRRM: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=49161 she probably blames herself for more fault than what she deserves. She did play a part in his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, Grail King said: Downfall, she had a part a small but important part, she removed the last small percentage of a chance to get her Jeyne Poole and Arya out of KL, the other stuff falls directly on Ned going to the Godswood to confront Cersei, Cersi and LF and Joff and Slynt were going to prevent Ned from doing that at any cost. Caitlyn taking Tyrion at the inn was another, Lysa sending that false letter another. Arya hitting the Prince was another. No the downfall was before Sansa and Arya even made it to Darry Sansa betrayed her family twice. Once at the trident and again at King's Landing. The first betrayal cost her Lady. The second betrayal lead to Ned's confession, Jeyne Poole coming into Littlefinger's hands, Arya's journey through the Riverlands and Sansa herself becoming a hostage that could be used against her mother and brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: GRRM: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=49161 That's old and read it a number of times, his death is on him and others, her part is she got captured and after her plead to the King where he basically lied to her her father was forced to give up his honour to save his daughters, only after this did Joffry go against his council his mother and to the angst of Tywin . Also lets not forget with some possible input by LF to be a King whispering in his ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Not even going to try to parse that. The author said she had "responsibility for her part in her father's death." There's no way to spin that. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 We are seriously going off topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Not even going to try to parse that. The author said she had "responsibility for her part in her father's death." There's no way to spin that. It is what it is. I don't think anyone is saying action didn't lead to his death but what is the point you are trying to make? she is most likely either through rickon bran and jon going to be put in a similar position again where she will choose family or her personal wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I already made it. Hookups for Sansa: 1. Some said Sansa and Sandor. Because of the story all along (and that's also been on the show, a relationship repeatedly commented on by the author and showrunners, etc.) 2. Some said Sansa and Jon. Apparently the rationale for brother and sister (as they know each other) with no story to date has to do with her becoming queen (or Lady of Winterfell). I chose door number 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: The author said she had "responsibility for her part in her father's death." There's no way to spin that. It is what it is. More interested in what the author wrote in the books than what he said in interviews, to be honest. And from the books it seems obvious that the Starks' downfall came from several members' actions combined, though Sansa's obviously amounted too. And I personally think that her life after Ned beheading, especially in the show, definitely counts as a punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: I already made it. A whole point of this series seems to be that in life people can become great and powerful being a horrible person. I doubt she ends up queen in the north cause i just don't see any independent kingdoms at the end of the story. But she could be the queen the cersei loses all her power she holds dear to in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Jett Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Grail King said: She doesn't hate him, they are not shown to be close like Jon and Arya, but they don't hate each other, as you are saying. Just as there are remarks and hints about Sansa and Sandor meeting again ( I don't see it as a possible togetherness ending by the way ) there are remarks and hints that Sansa and Jon got along. How to compliment girls, dancing, the ghost story in the crypt as Sansa ran screaming, hearing a wolf call descending the Eyrie. No one said that Sansa and Jon hated each other. They're just not fond of each other. The relationship is distant and a bit rocky especially from Jon's end. That's evident in the way they think of eachother and how often they think of each other. From the beginning Sansa's classism is what caused the rift between them. She is easily the sibling Jon gets along with the least. And the ghost wolf that Sansa heard at the Eyrie is her own wolf. Y'know her dead one, Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Agree with all of that. And the wolf she heard was Lady. Looking at the chapter in context, there are many hints about that. Looking at her entire story in context, there are even more hints about it. Also see: the numerous Hound and Lady references. She thinks of one, the other appears in her thoughts or she runs right into him. This has been going on the entire series. It was also part of the show: "Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it." And much more. (Also the quotes on the last page are interesting in this context.) Hookups. Sansa and the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Jett Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Tianzi said: More interested in what the author wrote in the books than what he said in interviews, to be honest. And from the books it seems obvious that the Starks' downfall came from several members' actions combined, though Sansa's obviously amounted too. And I personally think that her life after Ned beheading, especially in the show, definitely counts as a punishment. Okay? GRRM said the same thing you're saying. Sansa is partly to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: I already made it. Hookups for Sansa: 1. Some said Sansa and Sandor. Because of the story all along (and that's also been on the show, a relationship repeatedly commented on by the author and showrunners, etc.) 2. Some said Sansa and Jon. Apparently the rationale for brother and sister (as they know each other) with no story to date has to do with her becoming queen (or Lady of Winterfell). I chose door number 1. I could see jon or sansa with a lot of people and sansa jon or sansa sandor are hardly the only options discussed. Also not even close to right on the rational. I said it before i think there is better chance for romance in the show for arya than in the books. I am kind of hoping we see something for meera and Bran in the show even if it ends badly. There is also the will they do it or not jamie and brienne question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, Joan Jett said: Okay? GRRM said the same thing you're saying. Sansa is partly to blame. yeah and then people are like "she responsable" like people are disagreeing even as they all agree to the point. the question is what does that mean? can she not be queen or lady or live be the end of the books because she messed up and got her dad killed? i have no idea. i could see her dying in a pit or living ending up not unlike her father were she has this burden of carrying on her family legacy even as she feels like it should belong to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Not even going to address that. /yeah, that was discussed at length Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Well, if Sansa seduces Littlefinger and then back stabs him I might even start to believe that she is this great manipulator some people claim. That is just to add some diversity into this discussion. Predicting the show goes a little against my better judgement. Anything including alien invasion and smurfs making appearance is possible there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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