Let's Find The Swords

[Curled Finger]

Oath Keeper is with Brienne.   Jamie sees it when he leaves with her in his last chapter. 

Vigilance is a Hightower sword.   I've found no mention of it being seen anywhere.

Widow's Wail was last seen with Joffrey.   Was it buried with him or put away for Tommen?   Something else?

Orphan-Maker hasn't been seen since Bold Jon Roxton killed Hugh Hammer in the Battle at Tumbleton II. Bold Jon was promptly killed by 10 unidentified men.

Dark Sister was last seen in the possession of Bloodraven before his imprisonment.   Did he take it to the Wall? Something else?

Creepy Lyn Corbary has Lady Forlorn.

Randyll Tarly owns Heartsbane.

Blackfyre was last seen being taken by Bittersteel (into exile) after the battle at Redgrass Field.   Is it with a Blackfyre?   The Golden Company?  Something else?

Longclaw was last seen with Jon Snow. 

Nightfall is in the possession of Ser Harras Harlaw.

Red Rain is in the possession of House Drumm.

Truth is a Lysenni sword listed as a Westerosi sword.   It belonged to House Rogare of Lys.  Was it brought to Westeros as perhaps a part of Larra Rogare's dowry upon her marriage to King Viserys?  

Everyone should have an idea about Blackfyre and Dark Sister by now.   I never get tired of sword theory.   I have a few ideas where some of the missing swords could be or may come into play.  I've read some very good ideas regarding the whereabouts of some swords and even better ideas regarding how  all the swords will come back into play.   There is a small group of geeks here who really enjoy the swords and see the potential in their importance as the story unwinds.  Orphan-Maker had a back blade, Nightfall has a moonstone pommel--do these things matter?   Have we actually got a good description of Widow's Wail?   Jorah will have Longclaw and/or Dawn is Lightbringer are not the reply I'm hoping to elicit.   This topic is for the purpose of finding the missing swords.   I left Lamentation and Brightroar off the list entirely because I think they really are "lost" or destroyed--not in Westeros to be found.    In that we know where at least half of these swords are and see where they could be headed it becomes increasingly important to locate Vigilance (yawn, I'm sure it's with the Hightowers, love to hear it if you have better!), Truth, Widow's Wail, Dark Sister, Blackfyre and Orphan-Maker.  I like the idea that Gendry will be able to identify one of them.   We can do a "who will wield" thread down the road.  Bring on those bright detective's minds...

[Ygrain]

Radio Westeros proposes that Widow's Wail was smuggled out of KL in those tapestries that LF requested and will be given to Sansa as a part of her heritage. They also introduce a most lovely theory that Sansa will behead LF with it :-)

[Raven_Osiris]

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Radio Westeros proposes that Widow's Wail was smuggled out of KL in those tapestries that LF requested and will be given to Sansa as a part of her heritage. They also introduce a most lovely theory that Sansa will behead LF with it :-)

I have never heard this theory before but I absolutely love it. Only issue is if the general population still believe Sansa had a part in Joffrey's death she wouldn't be able to openly wield it without some serious eyebrows being raised. I still love the theory though.

[Ygrain]

2 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

Boys means nothing. It can be used to refer to young children or young men like Loras, Satin etc. 

Just like girls can mean young children or young women. Elio even addresses this on the Wiki.

Littlefinger isn't the most reliable source and Catelyn thinks that it is commonly known in the Vale that Lyn doesn't like the company of women. But she doesn't have any disgust towards him.

I'm not saying he couldn't be. Just there isn't enough evidence as of yet.

Well, not lliking women =/= showing interest in young boys, which Lyn had better not make public knowledge.

But that still makes him ephebophile at best.

Just now, Raven_Osiris said:

I have never heard this theory before but I absolutely love it. Only issue is if the general population still believe Sansa had a part in Joffrey's death she wouldn't be able to openly wield it without some serious eyebrows being raised. I still love the theory though.

I heard it only yesterday and I love it, too! They made a very good point about Sansa - that she starts as the seemingly least Starkish of the Stark children but in her arc, she never forgets who she is and is more identifying with Ned and North rather than Cat and South, and there should be some conclusion to this. Plus, the prophecy about Sansa killing a savage giant in a castle of snow, foreshadowed again by her sort of beheading Sweetrobin's doll, whose head ends impaled on a pike on the walls of her snow Winterfell. LF's original sigil is the head of the Titan and he stepped over the walls like a giant. So, what a better way for Sansa to assert her identity as a Stark than do what Starks are supposed to do, i.e. deliver the killing blow herself? I had always thought that Sansa was going to be LF's undoing but I was rather thinking in terms of the poisonous hairnet. Having her become lady of Winterfell and avenge her family on LF would be so much better!

[Raven_Osiris]

Does she still have the poisonous hairnet? Can't remember when it was last mentioned.

[Ygrain]

19 minutes ago, Raven_Osiris said:

Does she still have the poisonous hairnet? Can't remember when it was last mentioned.

It would seem so. She was holding it in her hand when Dontos came to the godswood, then they left together. It is not mentioned as left there with her clothes.

[GallowsKnight]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Well, not lliking women =/= showing interest in young boys, which Lyn had better not make public knowledge.

But that still makes him ephebophile at best.

What I meant is that she hasn't heard any rumours about in in that scene. But you're right if his is a paedophile it is in his best interest to hide it.

Satin is 18 older than Jon Snow and this is what Septon Cellador says:

Quote

This boy Satin. It's said you mean to make him your steward and squire, in Tollet's place. My lord, the boy's a whore... a... dare I say... a painted catamite from the brothels of Oldtown.

This comes off like I'm pro-Lyn Corbray or something. I just don't think there is enough evidence to make any sort of assumptions. 

[RedShirt47]

I quite like the theory I read on here some time ago that Tommen gifted Widow's Wail to Loras when he embarks on his assault of Dragonstone.
In a Cersei POV she sees Tommen giving Loras a bejewelled sword to thank him for training him. Tommen is likely too young to appreciate the true value of a Valyrian Steel sword and Cersei would be unlikely to recognise one.
It's possible Tommen could have had a nice Castle Forged sword made for Loras but it is also possible he just saw Widow's Wail lying around and decided it would be a good gift.

[Seams]

Maybe others have already seen and discussed this, but I've only recently picked up on a line of clues that Theon Greyjoy IS the sword Ice. (That's one way to be Ironborn, isn't it?) And the sword Ice, in turn, may also be a metaphor for The Wall. So clues about the future of Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail may be found in Theon's story line. Unfortunately, if Theon was really castrated, I fear that Widow's Wail may be lost. (Or it may turn up at Pyke - is that where Asha and Balon received the box from Ramsay?)

Another theory I'm still working out is that possibly Theon has been transformed from Ice into Oathkeeper, and Big Walder, the smaller of Catelyn's two wards, is Widow's Wail. (This began with the inspiration one day that "wards" and "swords" are linked in one of GRRM's clever uses of wordplay.) So follow Big Walder to find either a symbolic or actual location of Widow's Wail.

I really like the theory with Widow's Wail hidden in the tapestries, and Sansa using it in the future. That fits with some clues about Sansa in ASoS, so I hope the theory is correct. Merillion was going to write a song for Sansa called something like "Roadside Rose," I believe, and Widow's Wail is the name of a flower. There is also a turning point just before Sansa builds her snow castle at the Eyrie when she takes on a Catelyn-like role, which would fit with the "wards and swords" theory - Sansa could be symbolically taking on Catelyn's ward and will therefore meet up with Big Walder and/or Widow's Wail at some point. (On the other hand, Harry the Heir is a ward of Lady Anya Waynwood. So Sansa could be picking up an unknown Arryn or Waynwood sword at some point. We do see Sansa in bed with Sweet Robin toward the end of ADwD.)

If the logical idea that Tommen would receive Widow's Wail is correct, then the Maiden vs. anti-Maiden symbolism of Sansa and Margaery probably comes into play. Margaery certainly is a widow. She and Sansa are both married but both are supposedly virgins. So their husbands' swords have never been used, in the symbolic sense. (Joffrey's three swords certainly were not used.) I would love to read a scene where Sansa and Margaery fight for the possession of the sword. I wonder what that would look like? Maybe this will be the duel over who becomes queen of the Seven Kingdoms?

I know you left Brightroar out of your list on purpose, but I would not be at all surprised if Tyrion pulls it out of a pile of armor some day in Essos, in the manner of King Arthur pulling Excalibur out of a stone. Maybe Tyrion and Tommen will have a sword duel on the day when each man finally sleeps with his wife. A lot of the clues about Tyrion's relationship with his uncle Gerion, Tyrion traveling, Tyrion finally taking the advice he gave Jon Snow ( "Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you."), Tyrion seeking Tysha, becoming a sell sword - all seem to be leading up to him being the heir of the Lannister sword and being a king.

Similar to the Theon = Ice theory, I think Tormund Giantsbane may BE the sword Longclaw and there is also some link between him and The Wall. Jon allowing the wildlings to come south of The Wall may have been foreshadowed by the superficial transformation of Longclaw from a bear to a direwolf. (The marriage of Alys Karstark and Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn also figures into this motif.) The tall tale (or should I say, shaggy dog story?) about Tormund having half of his member cut off but still having the largest endowment of any man may tell us something about the future of The Wall and/or about Longclaw.

Anyone else know of other wards in the books? This "wards and swords" notion is still coming together, and I'd love to have more examples to work out.

[Valens]

I'd like to know what happened to Dark Sister too. Presumably it is lost in a cave somewhere in the north. Maybe waiting to be found by someone. Blackfyre must be with a Golden Company sellsword, however, wasn't Jon Connington a member of that company?? Maybe he has the sword with him, as a proof that Young Griff is really Aegon and so use it as a key evidence that he is the rightful king?

[SevasTra82]

1 hour ago, Valens said:

I'd like to know what happened to Dark Sister too. Presumably it is lost in a cave somewhere in the north. Maybe waiting to be found by someone. Blackfyre must be with a Golden Company sellsword, however, wasn't Jon Connington a member of that company?? Maybe he has the sword with him, as a proof that Young Griff is really Aegon and so use it as a key evidence that he is the rightful king?

I think Blackfyre will definitely make an appearance when the time is right.  The Sword is literally the symbol of the Blackfyres and their claim to the IT....and with (f)Aegon arriving, it only makes sense that he uses it as a symbol to unite his men.  I don't recall any stories or theories that it was lost, so there is a strong possibility it will appear.

As for Dark Sister, I'm puzzled by this one as well.  I don't know who was LC at the time of BR's arrival (Jack Musgood maybe?) but I find it hard to believe that the LC would be able to pry away Dark Sister from BR.  It only makes sense that it remained with him, through his time at the Watch, to LC status, and out to the Northern Cave with him.  I just find it hard to believe anyone would be able to (or even try to) take it from BR...given his sully reputation.

[Valens]

34 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

I think Blackfyre will definitely make an appearance when the time is right.  The Sword is literally the symbol of the Blackfyres and their claim to the IT....and with (f)Aegon arriving, it only makes sense that he uses it as a symbol to unite his men.  I don't recall any stories or theories that it was lost, so there is a strong possibility it will appear.

As for Dark Sister, I'm puzzled by this one as well.  I don't know who was LC at the time of BR's arrival (Jack Musgood maybe?) but I find it hard to believe that the LC would be able to pry away Dark Sister from BR.  It only makes sense that it remained with him, through his time at the Watch, to LC status, and out to the Northern Cave with him.  I just find it hard to believe anyone would be able to (or even try to) take it from BR...given his sully reputation.

Maybe BR will give Dark Sister to Bran? That'd be cool...even though Bran can't walk, maybe he can use it still, in a way. Flying...on a dragon maybe.

[SevasTra82]

31 minutes ago, Valens said:

Maybe BR will give Dark Sister to Bran? That'd be cool...even though Bran can't walk, maybe he can use it still, in a way. Flying...on a dragon maybe.

I remember reading a theory that Longclaw is actually Dark Sister...but I do not support the theory.

I think Bran with DS would be kinda pointless though...Bran is about to inherit powers far greater then anything that sword could bring him.  I have a semi-crackpot theory that DS is with Howland Reed at Greywater Watch.  Think about it...we know that there are some weird/odd connections with the Reeds and the COTF.  We know that Jojen is going to die when he gets back to Greywater Watch (prophesized in his green dreams).  We also know that there are many underground tunnels beneath the lands we do not know about that the COTF use.

I theorize that these tunnels are the way in which Bran/Jojen/Meera make their way back to Greywater Watch via the help of the COTF.  So I think it is entirely possible that BR gave Dark Sister to the COTF, who in turn took it to Greywater Watch for safe keeping.  

I have nothing to back this theory up other then the small connections we've been given so far (BR/COTF/Jojen Greendream/Tunnels), but I think its entirely plausable that HR has Dark Sister.

[Curled Finger]

13 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Radio Westeros proposes that Widow's Wail was smuggled out of KL in those tapestries that LF requested and will be given to Sansa as a part of her heritage. They also introduce a most lovely theory that Sansa will behead LF with it :-)

Thanks, can you tell me which Radio Westeros episode that was in so I can relisten?  I have read this very briefly mentioned.  I can't see Sansa going through with a bloody death.  Pushing Joff off a high narrow walkway sure, but I just can't see Sansa doing this.  Now if Sansa were to let someone else use her sword to do it sure!  

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

It would seem so. She was holding it in her hand when Dontos came to the godswood, then they left together. It is not mentioned as left there with her clothes.

Now a nasty poison is something I can see our Lady go through with.

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

What I meant is that she hasn't heard any rumours about in in that scene. But you're right if his is a paedophile it is in his best interest to hide it.

Satin is 18 older than Jon Snow and this is what Septon Cellador says:

This comes off like I'm pro-Lyn Corbray or something. I just don't think there is enough evidence to make any sort of assumptions. 

Don't sweat it.  No one actually likes pouty Lyn Corbray.

[Curled Finger]

6 hours ago, RedShirt47 said:

I quite like the theory I read on here some time ago that Tommen gifted Widow's Wail to Loras when he embarks on his assault of Dragonstone.
In a Cersei POV she sees Tommen giving Loras a bejewelled sword to thank him for training him. Tommen is likely too young to appreciate the true value of a Valyrian Steel sword and Cersei would be unlikely to recognise one.
It's possible Tommen could have had a nice Castle Forged sword made for Loras but it is also possible he just saw Widow's Wail lying around and decided it would be a good gift.

I almost added this in the opening because I don't think it's a super well known theory and I was wondering if anyone else had the idea.  Thanks for bringing it up.  

[Dire Lady]

6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Thanks, can you tell me which Radio Westeros episode that was in so I can relisten?  I have read this very briefly mentioned.  I can't see Sansa going through with a bloody death.  Pushing Joff off a high narrow walkway sure, but I just can't see Sansa doing this.  Now if Sansa were to let someone else use her sword to do it sure!  

It was their most recent episode, Ep24 Part2- Only Cat. 

[Curled Finger]

6 hours ago, Valens said:

I'd like to know what happened to Dark Sister too. Presumably it is lost in a cave somewhere in the north. Maybe waiting to be found by someone. Blackfyre must be with a Golden Company sellsword, however, wasn't Jon Connington a member of that company?? Maybe he has the sword with him, as a proof that Young Griff is really Aegon and so use it as a key evidence that he is the rightful king?

I think those are both popular theories although a couple of years ago folks were thinking Blackfyre was in Lyanna's crypt.  

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

I think Blackfyre will definitely make an appearance when the time is right.  The Sword is literally the symbol of the Blackfyres and their claim to the IT....and with (f)Aegon arriving, it only makes sense that he uses it as a symbol to unite his men.  I don't recall any stories or theories that it was lost, so there is a strong possibility it will appear.

As for Dark Sister, I'm puzzled by this one as well.  I don't know who was LC at the time of BR's arrival (Jack Musgood maybe?) but I find it hard to believe that the LC would be able to pry away Dark Sister from BR.  It only makes sense that it remained with him, through his time at the Watch, to LC status, and out to the Northern Cave with him.  I just find it hard to believe anyone would be able to (or even try to) take it from BR...given his sully reputation.

I have wracked my head over DS for a long time.  She has an illustrious history.  Would a convicted criminal be permitted to take a family heirloom of that significance to the Wall?  I'm thinking yes, particularly when said criminal ranked so highly in the sitting regime.  I have this half baked idea that once BR brought the sword to the wall it became a Wall possession, making it a lot easier for me to reconcile Longclaw.  I am sure we will see both swords in TWOW.