Let's Find The Swords

[Valens]

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Hey now, that's is a brilliant point, historical wielders of Dark Sister.   And Jon Snow could easily join the ranks you've listed.   Really, any of the Stark kids could.   Is there anyone else?   Not on my list at any  rate.   I have to give you this because I think DS's history is important.   Sorcerers...warriors...magic and war, I'm sorry but I'm still drawing Arya, who also has her own sword.   It's got to be someone we either don't know yet or haven't yet considered because I really don't see either Jon or Arya going the way the swords are going.   I've been operating on the sword being an obvious plant for a woman or child.    Wait, I think there may be one I've overlooked who is an archer, like Brynden Rivers and consorts with sorcerers, but I don't know if she's got any sword skills. She is of royal, if not Targaryan blood and seems to have her own agenda...Thanks Valens, you just took my list to 28 potential companions.   And I still only have 3 I'm sure of.

No, Arya's still exactly where you think she is, but Winds is taking an eternity to get out and I have faith all 12 companions and swords will be drawn together.  And I think Arya needs to go back to Westeros.  I'd really get a kick out of it if Needle ends up being Lightbringer.    

Ahem...Brynden Rivers is a HE. Anyway, thanks and your welcome.

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Valens said:

Ahem...Brynden Rivers is a HE. Anyway, thanks and your welcome.

I think the comment is meant to imply Alleras / Sarella. "An archer, LIKE Brynden Rivers," but not Brynden Rivers himself.

But I still think Meera should be in the running as a potential recipient of Dark Sister. I think she has a secret identity - perhaps a Snow twin who was sent to be raised at Greywater Watch for her own safety. (Sort of like Bran and Rickon were deliberately split up.) She uses a trident more than a sword, but she did take grandpa Rickard Stark's sword from the Winterfell crypt. (Bran took uncle Brandon's sword, and Hodor took an unidentified rusty sword that has yet to reveal its significance.)

The significance of Meera's trident may be to show that paths separate but they are still held in one hand? You can still "stick 'em with the pointy end" even if you have three points? The silverware has three heads? Tyrion with his crab fork and Arya with the fork given to Salty of Saltpans are the other two characters I associate with forks.

[BricksAndSparrows]

Truth, Vigilance, Red Rain... I actually hadn't even hear of these swords, so this has been pretty informative for me.

On 4/6/2016 at 1:11 AM, Ygrain said:

Radio Westeros proposes that Widow's Wail was smuggled out of KL in those tapestries that LF requested and will be given to Sansa as a part of her heritage. They also introduce a most lovely theory that Sansa will behead LF with it :-)

So f*cking awesome... and believable too. I like this a lot. There does seem to be one little piece that doesn't quite fit for me, though. You think someone would have noticed. With all the chaos surrounding Joff's death, I wouldn't expect it to be Tywin or Cersei, But someone... you know? It's a Valyrian Steel sword.

But!...but, Since Ser Aron Santigar's death, the Iron Throne has not yet appointed a new master-at-arms for the Red Keep.... so that might explain it...

Either way I like this idea, a lot.

On 4/6/2016 at 6:07 AM, Raven_Osiris said:

Does she still have the poisonous hairnet? Can't remember when it was last mentioned.

I think the last time she had it was when she was on the boat LF, right after Dontos got clipped. She may have it, but part of me thinks the hairnet was a red herring and something else is going on...

 

On 4/6/2016 at 7:15 AM, GallowsKnight said:

What I meant is that she hasn't heard any rumours about in in that scene. But you're right if his is a paedophile it is in his best interest to hide it.

 

On 4/6/2016 at 6:03 AM, Ygrain said:

Well, not lliking women =/= showing interest in young boys, which Lyn had better not make public knowledge.

But that still makes him ephebophile at best.

@GallowsKnight & @Ygrain : It's tough to single him out as a pedo, since so many of the characters are doing that same thing.

[Ygrain]

3 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

So f*cking awesome... and believable too. I like this a lot. There does seem to be one little piece that doesn't quite fit for me, though. You think someone would have noticed. With all the chaos surrounding Joff's death, I wouldn't expect it to be Tywin or Cersei, But someone... you know? It's a Valyrian Steel sword.

But!...but, Since Ser Aron Santigar's death, the Iron Throne has not yet appointed a new master-at-arms for the Red Keep.... so that might explain it...

Such a sword would most likely be placed in a chest in the armory, and no-one would ever think, or look for it, unless they had a specific reason. Which they haven't because Tommen is too small to wield it.

[BricksAndSparrows]

5 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Such a sword would most likely be placed in a chest in the armory, and no-one would ever think, or look for it, unless they had a specific reason. Which they haven't because Tommen is too small to wield it.

I guess that's fair. When you talked about it being taken, I had this image in my mind of the sword being taken amidst the panic and chaos of Joff's death. So when the dust had settled (so to speak) and it was time to clean up and put things a way, someone would notice. But that wouldn't be the best way to do it. Obviously waiting, and nicking it once it the blade was put away would make the most sense.

I might say that Widow's Wail may be afforded the same kind of security given a crown, but what's the point. The Red Keep is full of secret entrances and I'm sure LF can find his way around a locked door.

[Curled Finger]

32 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Such a sword would most likely be placed in a chest in the armory, and no-one would ever think, or look for it, unless they had a specific reason. Which they haven't because Tommen is too small to wield it.

If i'm reading this correctly I think this is the most likely bet.  An exquisite weapon specially designed for the Lannisters by Tywin just lost collecting dust in the armory.  Classic Cersei.  

[cgrav]

Going out on a limb... Is it possible that Corbray's Lady Forlorn is actually Widow's Wail? The appearance is described as uncannily similar to Ice: smoke colored blade, ruby in the pommel. Plus the name Lady Forlorn is an apt description of Sansa, while Widow's Wail fits Catelyn.

I would think someone would have noticed the switch, but the scene in the Eyrie is the first time readers are introduced to it, so it's hard to say if anyone else in that room would know one from the other. My impression of these swords is that people don't generally just lug them around for general use, so I suppose it's possible that nobody in the party had seen it before.

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, cgrav said:

Going out on a limb... Is it possible that Corbray's Lady Forlorn is actually Widow's Wail? The appearance is described as uncannily similar to Ice: smoke colored blade, ruby in the pommel. Plus the name Lady Forlorn is an apt description of Sansa, while Widow's Wail fits Catelyn.

I would think someone would have noticed the switch, but the scene in the Eyrie is the first time readers are introduced to it, so it's hard to say if anyone else in that room would know one from the other. My impression of these swords is that people don't generally just lug them around for general use, so I suppose it's possible that nobody in the party had seen it before.

A friend and I were just discussing the peculiar appearances of Lady Forlorn and Ice last week.   We're trying to come up with anything that would indicate why and how the Starks and Corbrays acquired their swords.    Our working theory is that these fine swords may have come from the same "batch" of VS made shortly before the Doom.   

There is no way Widow's Wail is Lady Forlorn or vice versa.   Widow's Wail is 3" shorter and 1/2" thinner than a regular long sword.  Not to mention its red and black rippled blade.  I have no intel that Lady Forlorn is of any peculiar or extraordinary size.  It's clear that Ice is a great sword and I suspect Lady Forlorn is a great sword, but it's not confirmed by a long shot.   Remember the pommels can be changed out with little effort.   I was matching swords with said friend and matched Lady Forlorn to Orphan-Maker when my friend countered with Heartsbane.    Of course, Widow's Wail fits, too, but I think it fits with Orphan-Maker better.   This is strictly the bizarre hypothesis of sword geeks with limited information.   I doubt the names mean anything at all.   

As intriguing as Widow's Wail being secreted away to The Vale is, I think it's probably still in the armory or somewhere in the Red Keep.  I say this with resignation as I thought Loras Tyrell had it for a long time.   That said, I think you're on to a connection between Lady Forlorn and Sansa Stark as well as Widow's Wail and Lady Stoneheart.   I've already got my ideas about how both swords could play into both characters' stories.   Give it some thought and let me know how you envision the meetings.   

Topics like this need people like you who can make the connections you made between the name of the magic sword and the major character in proximity.     

 

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Truth, Vigilance, Red Rain... I actually hadn't even hear of these swords, so this has been pretty informative for me.

Brother Man, where have you been!   These swords are amazing.  I hope you have an opportunity to read the entire topic as I have no doubt you will learn everything you need to know for when these bitchin missing Valyrian Steel swords show up in the books to come.   There are some excellent ideas about their origins, acquisitions, histories and futures through out.    A lot of ideas are in direct conflict, but they are all exciting prospects.   Now that they have captured your attention, do you see some greater importance or potential future role they might all play?   

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, Seams said:

I think the comment is meant to imply Alleras / Sarella. "An archer, LIKE Brynden Rivers," but not Brynden Rivers himself.

But I still think Meera should be in the running as a potential recipient of Dark Sister. I think she has a secret identity - perhaps a Snow twin who was sent to be raised at Greywater Watch for her own safety. (Sort of like Bran and Rickon were deliberately split up.) She uses a trident more than a sword, but she did take grandpa Rickard Stark's sword from the Winterfell crypt. (Bran took uncle Brandon's sword, and Hodor took an unidentified rusty sword that has yet to reveal its significance.)

The significance of Meera's trident may be to show that paths separate but they are still held in one hand? You can still "stick 'em with the pointy end" even if you have three points? The silverware has three heads? Tyrion with his crab fork and Arya with the fork given to Salty of Saltpans are the other two characters I associate with forks.

I knew you would know who my character was if you were reading.  Thanks for bringing Sarella to light.   Nice forks associations, too Seams. 

[Curled Finger]

For all it's worth, we actually did start a Let's Find the Heroes topic for discussing how when, where, and with whom these swords will end up.  I can't tell you all how pleased I was to find this topic enjoy a revival.    The swords are fascinating and generate a lot of creative discussion.   The Heroes topic died an early death with very little discussion.   @Seams jumped right in with some nice ideas about Truth there, but I'm afraid it all sort of died on the vine.   So if you have the interest, one of those really unexpected assumptions or a good argument for the future of the swords and their heroes, please give the companion topic a visit and enjoy yourself.   However, if you just dig the swords as much as I do please enjoy the discussion right here until we read the last word of A Dream of Spring...

On a side note, most folks know that I keep a little basic spreadsheet with the facts I find about the swords.   I'd be interested in having a page everyone in the forum could go to for reference.   I don't know how to do this, but I've seen some excellent stuff that readers have come up with.   If any of you knows how to make a reference page like this, the policy of the forum for publishing such a thing or just feel like helping accumulate facts we can all access please PM me as I would love to see this project get off the ground.  

[Seams]

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I was matching swords with said friend and matched Lady Forlorn to Orphan-Maker when my friend countered with Heartsbane.    Of course, Widow's Wail fits, too, but I think it fits with Orphan-Maker better.   This is strictly the bizarre hypothesis of sword geeks with limited information.   I doubt the names mean anything at all.   

As intriguing as Widow's Wail being secreted away to The Vale is, I think it's probably still in the armory or somewhere in the Red Keep. 

This is actually a fascinating exercise, trying to construct a story by using the names of the known swords. It's sort of like the chapters that GRRM has given a separate title instead of just naming the narrator. People have noticed that these chapters are probably allusions to Westeros legends or signal that the events and people in the chapter will have a larger-than-life story to tell.

Can we string together the names of the known swords to tell a story? A story that reflects elements of the ASOIAF plot? In your Heroes thread, I explained my suspicion that Ice was originally called Justice, and that the splitting of the name reflects the flawed "King's Justice" that Ned Stark feels compelled to carry out, in spite of common sense. I really like your (and your unnamed friend's) idea here that Widow's Wail and Orphan Maker would be paired - where in the novels or in legends do we see a wife losing her husband and a child losing his/her parent? Are the people who own (or used to own) those swords connected to the loss of that father/husband? Are there swords on one side or the other of this story, like Starks and Lannisters that are always enemies? Could the named swords that are not Valeryian steel (Hearteater, Lion's Tooth, Needle) or unnamed by possibly important swords (the ones in the crown of the King of Winter, the ones Bran's group took from the crypt, the one Dany promised to Ser Jorah, the one Gendry is making) also play roles in the story?

I think this approach would tie back into GRRM's wordplay of "words" and "swords." Words tell a story, swords should tell a story, too.

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I knew you would know who my character was if you were reading.  Thanks for bringing Sarella to light.   Nice forks associations, too Seams. 

It took a second reading and a little focus to realize who you were talking about, but it's fun to solve a little puzzle like that. I'm evolving away from my "the Truth is lost," point of view, as you know. As I think about your notion of Sarella as a sword-bearer, I really, really like it. I agree with you that there is something hidden in Dorne, and that it could be a sword. Maybe there's more than one sword. (Maybe Rhaenys went down with a sword, but we don't hear about it because the Dornish took possession of it and have been sitting on it for three hundred years so it was left out of the history books to spare some grief and embarrassment for the Targs.) If Sarella doesn't get Dark Sister, maybe she will turn up with Truth or some other sword.

There is also something intriguing about the Summer Islanders, and that points to a bigger role for Sarella. The name "Summer" has to be important with the tie to Bran's wolf, the shape of the islands on the maps (sometimes they look like a dragon and sometimes like a crab - that has to be something GRRM told the mapmakers to do) and the strategic locations of people like Sarella / Alleras and Jalabhar Xho and Tal Toraq. Even Prince Doran doesn't dare to interfere with Sarella's strategic efforts. Summer is coming.

I had another thought: Is Sarella a mirror image of Theon? If the theories are right about Sarella and Alleras, then she is a woman masquerading as a man. It's not the same kind of change, of course, that Theon was castrated but there is this sense that he became a different person and, certainly, that he could no longer have sex the way he enjoyed it prior to his torture by Ramsay. My interest isn't in the sexual identities of Sarella and Theon, however, but in their potential roles as weapons personified. I think Theon is the sword Ice (one of these days I'll finish writing up a post about that). All of the Sand Snakes could hold the potential to personify weapons, but Sarella seems exceptional among that group.

Your posts caused me to go back and skim through your Let's Find the Heroes thread. It would be nice to see more discussion there.

Edit: There's another thread that hasn't gotten the notice it deserves that theorizes that Sarella's friend Mollander could be the son of Ser Dontos Hollard, Sansa's Florian the Fool. If that theory (by @M_Tootles) is correct, it would also be cool to see Mollander transformed into a knight - a reversal of his father's transformation from knight to fool. He could be a good dark horse candidate to become a sword bearer, especially as a trusted pal of Alleras.

[M_Tootles]

On 9/15/2016 at 11:23 AM, Seams said:

But I still think Meera should be in the running as a potential recipient of Dark Sister. I think she has a secret identity - perhaps a Snow twin who was sent to be raised at Greywater Watch for her own safety. (Sort of like Bran and Rickon were deliberately split up.) She uses a trident more than a sword, but she did take grandpa Rickard Stark's sword from the Winterfell crypt. (Bran took uncle Brandon's sword, and Hodor took an unidentified rusty sword that has yet to reveal its significance.)

She does (IMO). It's really weird and makes me uncomfortable in an awesome kinda way. Will be in my forthcoming Level INSANE super-ultra-mega-tinfoil stuff.

 

[Curled Finger]

10 hours ago, Seams said:

This is actually a fascinating exercise, trying to construct a story by using the names of the known swords. It's sort of like the chapters that GRRM has given a separate title instead of just naming the narrator. People have noticed that these chapters are probably allusions to Westeros legends or signal that the events and people in the chapter will have a larger-than-life story to tell.

Can we string together the names of the known swords to tell a story? A story that reflects elements of the ASOIAF plot? In your Heroes thread, I explained my suspicion that Ice was originally called Justice, and that the splitting of the name reflects the flawed "King's Justice" that Ned Stark feels compelled to carry out, in spite of common sense. I really like your (and your unnamed friend's) idea here that Widow's Wail and Orphan Maker would be paired - where in the novels or in legends do we see a wife losing her husband and a child losing his/her parent? Are the people who own (or used to own) those swords connected to the loss of that father/husband? Are there swords on one side or the other of this story, like Starks and Lannisters that are always enemies? Could the named swords that are not Valeryian steel (Hearteater, Lion's Tooth, Needle) or unnamed by possibly important swords (the ones in the crown of the King of Winter, the ones Bran's group took from the crypt, the one Dany promised to Ser Jorah, the one Gendry is making) also play roles in the story?

I think this approach would tie back into GRRM's wordplay of "words" and "swords." Words tell a story, swords should tell a story, too.

It took a second reading and a little focus to realize who you were talking about, but it's fun to solve a little puzzle like that. I'm evolving away from my "the Truth is lost," point of view, as you know. As I think about your notion of Sarella as a sword-bearer, I really, really like it. I agree with you that there is something hidden in Dorne, and that it could be a sword. Maybe there's more than one sword. (Maybe Rhaenys went down with a sword, but we don't hear about it because the Dornish took possession of it and have been sitting on it for three hundred years so it was left out of the history books to spare some grief and embarrassment for the Targs.) If Sarella doesn't get Dark Sister, maybe she will turn up with Truth or some other sword.

There is also something intriguing about the Summer Islanders, and that points to a bigger role for Sarella. The name "Summer" has to be important with the tie to Bran's wolf, the shape of the islands on the maps (sometimes they look like a dragon and sometimes like a crab - that has to be something GRRM told the mapmakers to do) and the strategic locations of people like Sarella / Alleras and Jalabhar Xho and Tal Toraq. Even Prince Doran doesn't dare to interfere with Sarella's strategic efforts. Summer is coming.

I had another thought: Is Sarella a mirror image of Theon? If the theories are right about Sarella and Alleras, then she is a woman masquerading as a man. It's not the same kind of change, of course, that Theon was castrated but there is this sense that he became a different person and, certainly, that he could no longer have sex the way he enjoyed it prior to his torture by Ramsay. My interest isn't in the sexual identities of Sarella and Theon, however, but in their potential roles as weapons personified. I think Theon is the sword Ice (one of these days I'll finish writing up a post about that). All of the Sand Snakes could hold the potential to personify weapons, but Sarella seems exceptional among that group.

Your posts caused me to go back and skim through your Let's Find the Heroes thread. It would be nice to see more discussion there.

Edit: There's another thread that hasn't gotten the notice it deserves that theorizes that Sarella's friend Mollander could be the son of Ser Dontos Hollard, Sansa's Florian the Fool. If that theory (by @M_Tootles) is correct, it would also be cool to see Mollander transformed into a knight - a reversal of his father's transformation from knight to fool. He could be a good dark horse candidate to become a sword bearer, especially as a trusted pal of Alleras.

Ah Seams, thanks for your encouragement for my mysterious friend Shellie, and my silly musings.   I didn't mean to slight her.  She refuses to join the forum with a screenname, but she reads everything and I am so grateful to have a friend to bounce things off of.    We ponder things much along those lines: Do these names mean something, do the locations mean something, the colors the types of swords?   Ok, we put Heartsbane and Lady Forlorn together as well as Orphan-Maker and Widow's Wail and I seem to recall you putting Truth and Vigilance together with justIce.  We've got Dawn and Nightfall.   I think a case can be made for Blackfyre and Red Rain but what do we do with Longclaw and Dark Sister?   I'm following you into the expansion discussion and matching Dark Sister up with Just Maid.   Longclaw needs a friend.     Still I'm having a hard time shaking @cgrav's association of Sansa with Lady Forlorn.   Here's to hope that Florian the Fool's sword was Shortfang.   Joking aside, I wonder if the sword names actually point to characters?   Widow's Wail is a nice association with LSH and Dark Sister is a nice association with Arya.   I'm not implying that any of these ladies will carry any of the VS swords, but those names do conjure up the 3 of them don't they?   Oathkeeper so much points to Brienne and even Jamie perhaps even Jorah in my twisted mind.    Was it written to be that way?   Or am I just a fan reading way too much into the swords?   Other than Sam for obvious reasons, who could we associate Heartsbane with?   Tyrion?   Bran is Truth and Jon is Vigilance?   You are the brilliant one in these exercises, help me out!   

I dig having a new suspect companion.  Sarella is quite a character and I look forward to finding out a lot more about her agenda and work with Sam.   I will have to ponder her similarities with Theon a little further.   You bring up some really fascinating points about them.   To your thoughts regarding the sword names I recall Modesty Lannister offering up her ideas earlier in this thread about the origins of the 12 companions.   Remember all that magic/anti magic:pact/anti pact talk?   I didn't fully understand, but what I did grasp holds me fully in thrall.   If there was some connection to the original owners and their locations I think it's plausible that there would be forces in opposition and unity surrounding all these families.   I won't go so far as Ice/Starks vs Brightroar/Lannisters, but settle into the idea a little easier with Red Rain/Reyne vs Brightroar/Lannister as something of balances and counter balances possibly related to the Westerlands.   As unlikely as Longclaw/Mormont is to versus Ice/Stark, perhaps there is a protective or complimentary force these 2 balance so close to a hinge of the world?  I have never graduated beyond my thinking that the locations of the swords was as important then as now and still can only plead that The Long Night affected all of Westeros so each kingdom was awarded a talisman or 2.   If my theory that The Others began waking or whatever after Hardhome, it makes sense to me that the forces of good that held the pact intact would send new talismen in the form of magic swords to each kingdom to remind them of their part or failure to keep faith.  Though they will no doubt lose Nightfall and Red Reyne, it simply fascinates me that the Iron Born acquired 2 pieces so rare and magical.   Why The Vale, no, the Royce's lost Lamentation but still proclaim "We Remember" on their banners is another head scratcher.   

I must go see if I can learn a little more about those interesting young people at the Citadel.   Thanks for the link.   I look forward to reading this.

[BricksAndSparrows]

On 9/15/2016 at 11:53 PM, Curled Finger said:

Now that they have captured your attention, do you see some greater importance or potential future role they might all play?   

So I'm still learning more about these swords. At this point in time, I don't think we will see all of these swords showing up and/or impacting the plot. That's not to say there are some exceptions...

It looks like Blackfyre needs to make an appearance and I would love to see Meera Reed with Dark Sister (I think she is a perfect candidate to weild it...)

I can't see how a sword like Lamentation could be a missing plot piece. The story doesn't really need it, so if it does appear I think it would be strictly ornamental. On the other hand you have a sword like Brightroar that would bring some answers with it should it return.

I would say that I often wonder about the Hightower's. They seem to be an extremely old and powerful house, having a big influence on Westerosi history, yet they're sorta absent in the series. I'm guessing they are going to factor into the Maester conspiracy (if there is one...) Maybe the sword will show up somewhere in there..

[Voice]

On 4/5/2016 at 8:46 PM, Curled Finger said:

Have we actually got a good description of Widow's Wail?   Jorah will have Longclaw and/or Dawn is Lightbringer are not the reply I'm hoping to elicit.   This topic is for the purpose of finding the missing swords. 

I do hope it will not make you yawn, but I believe I've found one of the oldest missing swords of all.

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/386/ice-dawn-updated

[Curled Finger]

On 9/20/2016 at 1:28 PM, BricksAndSparrows said:

So I'm still learning more about these swords. At this point in time, I don't think we will see all of these swords showing up and/or impacting the plot. That's not to say there are some exceptions...

It looks like Blackfyre needs to make an appearance and I would love to see Meera Reed with Dark Sister (I think she is a perfect candidate to weild it...)

I can't see how a sword like Lamentation could be a missing plot piece. The story doesn't really need it, so if it does appear I think it would be strictly ornamental. On the other hand you have a sword like Brightroar that would bring some answers with it should it return.

I would say that I often wonder about the Hightower's. They seem to be an extremely old and powerful house, having a big influence on Westerosi history, yet they're sorta absent in the series. I'm guessing they are going to factor into the Maester conspiracy (if there is one...) Maybe the sword will show up somewhere in there..

The swords are great stuff.  I get such a kick out of all the varied ideas about them.  I get an even bigger kick out of sharing similar ideas with people I've never met yet manage to draw near conclusions with.   Right on with your ideas about the swords.  Let us know if you are inspired for any of the others.  

[Curled Finger]

On 9/20/2016 at 7:39 PM, Voice said:

I do hope it will not make you yawn, but I believe I've found one of the oldest missing swords of all.

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/386/ice-dawn-updated

I bet I've read that 3 or 4 times over the past few months.  So no yawns here on that front.  It's such an interesting idea it's led me to many similar topics around the web.  

[Seams]

I just came across this passage as I was looking for something else. Could be just a coincidence, but it seems like a GRRM-style hint:

... Clegane laughed again. "Your father lied. Killing is the sweetest thing there is." He drew his longsword. "Here's your truth. Your precious father found that out on Baelor's steps. Lord of Winterfell, Hand of the King, Warden of the North, the mighty Eddard Stark, of a line eight thousand years old . . . but Ilyn Payne's blade went through his neck all the same, didn't it?...

(ACoK, Sansa IV)

I can't imagine a scenario by which Sandor Clegane would legitimately possess the sword Truth, if the one he carries is one of the named Valyrian steel swords. And it seems as if someone would have noticed and mentioned if he were carrying such a famous blade or even if it's just made of the distinctive dark steel. Maybe the sword wasn't easily recognized, though. It had been used in Essos, mostly, and only for a generation. Maybe he's careful not to unsheathe it where knowledgeable people can see it up close? Maybe the sword is a glamor, as Maester Aemon describes the sword Stannis uses.

I do like the idea that The Hound might be carrying Truth, though, because of the parallel between the direwolf Lady being killed by (Just)Ice and Mycah the Butcher's Boy being killed by Truth. Clegane also rescues Sansa when she is threatened by the mob in King's Landing. I like the idea that she is saved by Truth, knowing that she is later schooled by Littlefinger about the importance of being a liar. It gives me hope that she will be redeemed again by the truth some day.

The excerpt really underscores the connection of Ice to Justice again, as Ser Ilyn is the King's Justice. Clegane says the blade was Payne's, but it was really Ned's, of course. (As you know, I like the idea of Truth and Justice as a pair.)

[Curled Finger]

@Seams, you have no idea how timely your post is/was.  I found this passage a few months ago and tucked it away in my notes because I was far more interested in the old sword The Hound buys with his winnings.  That all goes to my search for shining swords and rusted helms that the Brothers on the Quiet Isle collect from the shore.   There is a lot going on that we aren't being told about on the QI.  I thought all the cute little hints were designed to point us to the Gravedigger, but Shellie found something startling.  Remember Quaithe's instructions for Dany to find truth?  These are specific directional instructions.   Guess what directions the Path of the Faith runs?  Yep.  Same deal.  I won't discount anything you bring to the table because you see things common clods like me discard for rusty old swords.   A connection is definitely on the Quiet Isle with Truth and Sandor.   I will leave you with that and eagerly await your findings after of course, you travel the Path of the Faith to the Quiet Isle again.    I texted Shellie right after reading your post today.  If we can piece all the clues together including the identities of all the brothers, particularly Elder Brother (in my mind) and pair them with amazing healing power and river treasure on the shore I think we will find exactly what we think we may find.   I like Sandor for Truth, too, and for reasons associated with Sansa.   In my own inelegant way, I tap Sansa as the character most hidden from truth.   Frickin' Little Finger has lied to her about everything.   The Hound doesn't understand the truth of knighthood.  That's my take anyway.   I like the symmetry of Truth within this little group.  And maybe this Truth can exact a little justIce for all of them.    Thanks so lousy much for this.   You made my day.