Will fAegon wield Blackfyre?

[James Steller]

I feel like that would be a great way to show people deciding to join fAegon. Having him share not only the Conqueror's name but his sword as well? That's a mighty incentive to abandon little Tommen Baratheon.

It would also serve as an explanation for where Blackfyre is and that fAegon's ownership of it is either a symbol of the Targaryens finally reclaiming their sword from the Blackfyre line, or else it's a hint at fAegon's true ancestry.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think he will, and that this may be what tips Dany off to his illegitimacy. Blackfyre was lost to the Targaryens, and if he shows up with it, she'll have questions as to where he acquired it? 

I think we already know he has it, as in an ADWD sample chapter which GRRM read prior to it's release, he mentions the sword in the chest or something, but later when the book was released that line was omitted.  Or so I think I recall? 

maybe someone else can clarify. But yes fAegon will have Blackfyre in my opinion. And him doing so will both piss Daenerys off and make her suspicious. 

[sarah.jenice]

9 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I think he will, and that this may be what tips Dany off to his illegitimacy. Blackfyre was lost to the Targaryens, and if he shows up with it, she'll have questions as to where he acquired it? 

I think we already know he has it, as in an ADWD sample chapter which GRRM read prior to it's release, he mentions the sword in the chest or something, but later when the book was released that line was omitted.  Or so I think I recall? 

maybe someone else can clarify. But yes fAegon will have Blackfyre in my opinion. And him doing so will both piss Daenerys off and make her suspicious. 

I've heard the same around the forum. 

There was another post about Blackfyre not that long ago where posters were pointing out that we really don't know for sure what happened to Blackfyre. We know that Bittersteel had it after the first Blackfyre Rebellion and wouldn't give it to Daemon II, but it's never mentioned again. After Bittersteel died, did it go back to the Blackfyres? If so, did House Targaryen reclaim it during one of the subsequent Blackfyre Rebellions? Did Maelys the Monstrous wield it in the War of the Ninepenny Kings? Did it stay with the Golden Company and if it did, did the wouldn't the current commanders have fought with it?

With all of the unknowns surrounding the sword's whereabouts, I don't think we can automatically assume that Dany will equate the owner of Blackfyre with a pretender. However, I do agree that her seeing Aegon as a fake does seem like where things are headed, and I do believe he will have Blackfyre. When the sword does make it's appearance, I'm very interested to know how the hell it ended up in Illyrio's/Varys' hands.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Thanks, I knew I was remembering it but wanted to say that I could be wrong. Nice to know I wasn't making that up.  

I think Illyrio has it due to him being of the Female Blackfyre line, But I guess if it had been being held by the GC, then that is a way for fAegon to receive it too. I think the fact the reading had Illyrio mentioning "the sword" being in a crate coming from his manse, always made me think that it was coming direct from him. But everything you mention is a consideration. 

The reason I think Dany would equate the sword with him being a fake is simply because the sword was last known to be in the hands of the Pretenders and their supporters, the fact he wields it and is backed by the GC  is what I think will get her suspicions up. And I think she will be pretty pissed off if she discovers Illyrio gave him it, because after all she and Viserys lived with him a while, I think she'd be pretty pissed off he never offered them the Sword. Either Illyrio has to come clean and admit he was saving it for fAegon, in which case she has to begin to wonder why on earth he never mentioned that their nephew was alive to them in all that time. Or he pretends he didn't know about fAegon, in which case why did he hold back on the Sword, and indeed where did he acquire it? Which leads to all sorts of questions as to his own heritage.  The other option is she never discovers Illyrio gave him it, and assumes the GC did, in which case alarm bells have to ring, because the GC are renowned BF supporters, and if they suddenly are happy to back a Dragon of another colour, why didn't they come forth when she and Viserys were wandering penniless around the free cities. Just as non of it adds up for us readers, it won't add up for her either, and she's bound to have her suspicions as to his legitimacy, especially when he comes out wielding the sword stolen from her House by the Blackfyre pretenders. 

[Lord Varys]

There is a pretty big hint that Blackfyre was reclaimed by the Targaryens under Aerys I. Yandel tells us that the pretender Haegon I Blackfyre gave up his sword when he was captured at the end of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion.

Considering the fact that Haegon's sword should have been Blackfyre if we assume that he was Bittersteel's chosen king it is very likely indeed that the Blackfyres lost their precious sword to the Targaryens.

Even if Haegon didn't wield Blackfyre for some reason one would assume that Daemon III Blackfyre had it with him at the Wendwater Bridge, and the Blackfyres suffered a crushing defeat in that battle. Daemon III was slain by Ser Duncan the Tall, and one would assume that Dunk would have been smart enough to secure Blackfyre for his king and friend.

Finally, there was the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Maelys the Monstrous was slain, too, and if he had had Blackfyre Selmy most likely would have reclaimed it from his corpse. But in Maelys' case there is a actually a good reason to assume that he didn't wield Blackfyre because the picture of his battle with Selmy depicts the Monstrous as wielding a morning star rather than Blackfyre.

This doesn't necessarily mean the Targaryens remained in possession of the sword until the days of Aerys II, though. They could have lost it, too. Maekar may have wielded during the Peake Uprising and it may have been disappeared after his death. Or Aegon V had it with him at Summerhall, and it was lost in the fire.

There is also no hint that the captain-generals of the Golden Company after Maelys Blackfyre wielded the sword. If Maelys had it, and if the Targaryens failed to reclaim it after Maelys' death, then one would assume that Maelys' successor as captain-general would have claimed the sword for himself rather than handing it to some obscure relation of the Blackfyres who didn't even serve in the Golden Company.

But there is no hint that Myles Toyne or Harry Strickland have Blackfyre.

The hint we got is that Illyrio Mopatis may have handed the sword to Aegon's gang in one of those chests Duck carried so effortlessly. But if that's true this doesn't mean Illyrio actually inherited the sword. All it means is that he eventually acquired it. We know that Varys and Illyrio's very profession is to uncover secrets, so it wouldn't surprise we one bit if it turned out that they tracked down and eventually reclaimed Blackfyre.

In light of the fact that Aegon is supposed to be Rhaegar Targaryen's son I lean towards the idea that the Blackfyres didn't actually keep the sword until the War of the Ninepenny Kings. If that was the case then Blackfyre would remain and be seen as a token/symbol of House Blackfyre rather than House Targaryen, and it would potentially be counter-productive to hand it to Aegon.

But if Blackfyre was recovered by the Targaryens then it is easily possible that it remained in their possession until the days of Aerys II. The fact that Rhaegar didn't wield the sword at the Trident proves nothing. Blackfyre was the sword of the kings and would thus have been Aerys' personal possession. He wouldn't have given the sword to Rhaegar - especially not since he actually mistrusted his son.

We also have reason to believe that Dany's three dragon eggs were part of the clutch of petrified dragon eggs Aerys II discovered on Dragonstone when he looked there for dragon eggs. If Varys could steal dragon eggs from the Targaryens (most likely during the chaos of the Sack) and possibly smuggle Prince Aegon out of the city, the idea that he also stole the sword Blackfyre and gave it to Illyrio isn't exactly far-fetched.

And in that case Blackfyre would actually be a Targaryen token strengthening Aegon's claim that he is Rhaegar's son because people would know that Blackfyre was lost seen in the hands of Aerys II Targaryen, and subsequently anyone claiming to be Prince Aegon who also wields the sword Blackfyre would look much more convincing than a boy who doesn't have Blackfyre.

The whereabouts of Blackfyre are never discussed in the series at all. Therefore we really have no reason to assume that Blackfyre was long lost to the Targaryens during Robert's Rebellion. Robert clearly didn't give a damn about Targaryen heirlooms, and apparently a lot of Valyrian steel swords and other important tokens (like the crown of Aegon the Conqueror) were lost in various battles. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

It's also interesting to wonder if the Dornish would give him the conquerors crown.

[Maxxine]

I definitely think that Blackfyre (and Dark Sister) are going to make an appearance at some point. However, I don't think it proves or disproves anything regarding his heritage. Anyone can wield a sword. Jon is walking around with Longclaw and no one thinks he's Mormont. Having the sword is not like someone walking around with a direwolf or riding a dragon. Plus even if having the sword did work like what does it prove. Would it prove he's a true Targ because he has the sword of Aegon the Conqueror or would it prove he's a Blackfyre because he has the sword that was given to Daemon Blackfyre? The interpretation could lead to different outcomes and it still wouldn't prove anything. 

[Macgregor of the North]

Yes I think he will. I'm interested in seeing how good a swordsman he really is as well. A rematch with Lady Forlorn would be brilliant also if GRRM is so inclined to write it in. 

[The Snark of Winterfell]

In the Mystery Knight, which is essentially the story of the second Blackfyre rebellion, the sword Blackfyre was extremely important.  Daemon II Blackfyre really had significant issues in garnering true support because of his lack of Blackfyre, the sword.  Several Blackfyre supporters felt that this showed that Bittersteel did not support the rebellion and Daemon II.  

Conversely, the fact that Daemon I Blackfyre was given that sword was a huge reason why he was able to gain support over Daeron  II, at least that was stated by multiple Blackfyre supporters in the Sworn Sword and Mystery Knight.

So it's definitely important.  I agree w Varys that there is a major hint that they lost Blackfyre in the 3rd rebellion, because of what I stated above and Bittersteel was part of this rebellion.  It is certainly possible that Varys smuggled the sword out and I suppose it is possible that Haggon did not carry the sword into battle.  Hard to say, but I lean towards fAegon having the sword.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It's also interesting to wonder if the Dornish would give him the conquerors crown.

I don't think they still have that crown, else Prince Maron most likely would have given it to Daeron II as a wedding gift, or perhaps as a token of their friendship when Daenerys married Maron and Dorne joined the Realm. We know that the Martells also handed back Meraxes' head in the earlier days so it would be strange to assume they kept the Conqueror's crown after the Martells and the Targaryens were finally allies.

Especially in light of the whole Blackfyre thing. Daeron II was Maron Martell's friend and ally. He would have known about Daeron II's trouble caused by Aegon IV giving Blackfyre to Daemon. Subsequently one would assume that Maron would have helped to strengthen Daeron's legitimacy by handing him the Conqueror's crown. But he did not, suggesting that the Martells no longer had that crown. After all, it could have been lost in the wake of the Young Dragon's death. We don't know who took it nor whether it was destroyed because the men taking it took it apart because they wanted the rubies.

[239JMFL34109]

Yeah i do feel like at the right most theatrical time he will "find" Blackfyre

[The Fresh PtwP]

I think he will, there is a sizable Tyrell army headed his way...i'm sure he'll have it before they show up.

[StarkofWinterfell]

My guess is he'll wield Dark Sister precisely because GRRM doesn't want us to look at him wielding Blackfyre as him being a Blackfyre.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

4 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

My guess is he'll wield Dark Sister precisely because GRRM doesn't want us to look at him wielding Blackfyre as him being a Blackfyre.

How would he have access to Dark Sister? Bloodraven was the last person who had it.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

How would he have access to Dark Sister? Bloodraven was the last person who had it.

Bloodraven would have lost Dark Sister when he was arrested. Aegon V wouldn't have allowed to keep Dark Sister for company in a black cell, don't you think.

There is a small chance that Aegon V returned the sword to Bloodraven when he sent him to the Wall but that is a stretch. Egg had two sons who showed promise at arms, and either of them could have won glory for House Targaryen and Aegon V wielding the sword.

Even if the Targaryens had regained Blackfyre during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion there would be only a small chance that Aegon V would allow Bloodraven to keep the sword. Blackfyre had become 'the sword of kings', so Egg couldn't give it to either Duncan or Daeron to wield it. He would have to keep it for himself which means he would have to use Dark Sister if he wanted to hand a Valyrian steel sword to one of his own sons.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Not if he is smart. I think everyone knows what happened to most of those who wielded Blackfyre.

Wielding Blackfyre is like - Count down to when he's slayed.

[239JMFL34109]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Bloodraven would have lost Dark Sister when he was arrested. Aegon V wouldn't have allowed to keep Dark Sister for company in a black cell, don't you think.

There is a small chance that Aegon V returned the sword to Bloodraven when he sent him to the Wall but that is a stretch. Egg had two sons who showed promise at arms, and either of them could have won glory for House Targaryen and Aegon V wielding the sword.

Even if the Targaryens had regained Blackfyre during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion there would be only a small chance that Aegon V would allow Bloodraven to keep the sword. Blackfyre had become 'the sword of kings', so Egg couldn't give it to either Duncan or Daeron to wield it. He would have to keep it for himself which means he would have to use Dark Sister if he wanted to hand a Valyrian steel sword to one of his own sons.

Long claw ended up at the wall why not dark sister? 

I think dark sister is probably at the nightfort. 

I do think blackfyre will end up with at least one other person my guess is Jorah 

[Curled Finger]

Honestly I think all the swords will resurface in order to fulfill their purpose.   Aegon possessing Blackfyre simply seems like the best reentry to the overall story for this amazing piece of steel.   We recently had a discussion during which a poster offered an interesting theory about Barristan Selmy possibly having a Valyrian Steel sword tucked away at Harvest Hall.    I think Ser Grampa was too honorable to retain a sword like Blackfyre which so obviously belonged to several someones.  However, a sword of questionable ownership like say Orphan Maker, would be a good fit.  Nonetheless I expect we will see Blackfyre, Dark Sister, Vigilance and Widows Wail very early in TWOW.   Possibly learn a little something about Truth.   Lots of swords to uncover still.  

[The Bold Wolf]

If Aegon is given the sword Blackfyre, then he's announced as a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. Daemon chose to interpret that the sword signified his right to rule, being the sword of kings. It was unclear what Aegon the Unworthy meant by bestowing Blackfyre unto Daemon, but it certainly caused a lot of conflict. 

I think that it will work against Aegon to have Blackfyre, and to be with the Golden Company. Thats too many red flags that Aegon is just another Blackfyre or a pretender.

Daenerys is a known Targaryen left alive, the realm thinks Aegon dead. She has three dragons, Aegon has none. He's too much a pretender to have the houses rally to him. 

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Long claw ended up at the wall why not dark sister? 

I think dark sister is probably at the nightfort. 

I do think blackfyre will end up with at least one other person my guess is Jorah 

But Jeor Mormont didn't take Longclaw with him to the Wall. He left it on Bear Island and handed it to Jorah who then decided to leave it behind in his hall when he went into exile. Maege Mormont eventually decided to give Longclaw back to Jeor Mormont - for whatever reason.

Dark Sister was a Valyrian steel sword that was customarily given to a great Targaryen warrior (Visenya gave it to Maegor, Alyssa Velaryon gave it to Jaehaerys I, Jaehaerys I gave it to Prince Daemon, Aegon III gave it to the Dragonknight, Daeron II gave it to Bloodraven) but there is no hint that the sword was considered to be the personal possession of the knight it was given (aside, perhaps, from the earlier days - but back during the reign of the Conqueror and Aenys I neither Blackfyre nor Dark Sister had any deeper meaning) but always reverted back to the head of House Targaryen.

For instance, whoever found Dark Sister in the head of Prince Aemond after the carcass of Vhagar had finally washed up at the shore of the Gods Eye wasn't allowed to keep the sword. It went back to King Aegon III.

This makes it very unlikely indeed that Bloodraven was allowed to keep Dark Sister when Aegon V sent him to the Wall. That is a one way trip. While there is a chance that Dark Sister could have been handed back to the Targaryens after Bloodraven's death there would also be the chance that Bloodraven decided to give the sword away as a gift while serving at the Wall - like Jeor Mormont did - and this may have made it difficult for a Targaryen king to reclaim the sword. Not to mention that the chance would have been pretty big that the sword would be lost beyond the Wall - something Aegon V would want to prevent if we assume he never regained Blackfyre.

The fact remains that Egg had every reason to give Dark Sister to one of his own sons rather than allow Bloodraven to keep it. Both Duncan and Daeron apparently showed potential, and Egg grew up with the stories of the Dragonknight. Bloodraven was a pretty old man by the time he left for the Wall. Nobody would have expected him to do show great feats of arms at the Wall at his age.

44 minutes ago, The Bold Wolf said:

If Aegon is given the sword Blackfyre, then he's announced as a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. Daemon chose to interpret that the sword signified his right to rule, being the sword of kings. It was unclear what Aegon the Unworthy meant by bestowing Blackfyre unto Daemon, but it certainly caused a lot of conflict. 

I think that it will work against Aegon to have Blackfyre, and to be with the Golden Company. Thats too many red flags that Aegon is just another Blackfyre or a pretender.

Daenerys is a known Targaryen left alive, the realm thinks Aegon dead. She has three dragons, Aegon has none. He's too much a pretender to have the houses rally to him. 

Check my posting above. Blackfyre would only be a token connected to House Blackfyre if the Targaryens never regained the sword. And we don't know whether they did or didn't. Even if they did not technically only a few people should suspect that Aegon might be a Blackfyre descendant despite Blackfyre and the Golden Company because everybody knows that the Blackfyre line is extinct. If all the Blackfyres are dead then Aegon cannot possibly be a Blackfyre, no?

And he wouldn't be a Blackfyre even if he is not Rhaegar's son and descended from Daemon Blackfyre through the female line because, you know, the name usually goes with the man, so Aegon most likely wasn't born as Blackfyre in any meaningful sense.

But the chances that anyone in Westeros knows or cares that there might be some Blackfyre descendants through the female line running around in Essos are actually pretty slim. Not to mention that it will be difficult to prove or even claim that as long as Varys and Illyrio's own ancestry and connection to Aegon remains a closely guarded secret.