Does Tywin have any bastards?

[norwaywolf123]

26 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

Exactly.

Tywin would've never wanted to father bastards, even if they could've be out of sight. He probably told his mistresses, quite deadpan, to drink moon tea

Only Roose Bolton can match Tywin Lannister for the title of the most scary villain. Becaue they both do it so subtly

Why not a bastard can do things Trueborn cannot, without sullying the honor and reputation of the trueborn.

[norwaywolf123]

1 hour ago, Maxxine said:

I doubt this is true considering the tunnel to Chataya's is most likely his. So he was probably using this tunnel the whole time he was in KL acting as Hand the first and didn't leave KL until after Joanna's death.

In regards to the OP, I think its possible that Tywin has bastards, but I doubt they'll be of any consequence to the plot.

I think maybe one may play a role. If the bastard is male, thus can continu the Lannister line. But he must also be a good battle comander and fighter himself. The Lannisters need someone to lead them if Jaime won't.

[talvikorppi]

6 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Why not a bastard can do things Trueborn cannot, without sullying the honor and reputation of the trueborn.

Eh, I'm not understanding your grammar. Do you mean a bastard son could be used as an attack dog (like Roose Bolton has)? But the mere fact of a bastard son sullies the honour of the house (Tywin, also Ned Stark).

[thelittledragonthatcould]

51 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

Eh, I'm not understanding your grammar. Do you mean a bastard son could be used as an attack dog (like Roose Bolton has)? But the mere fact of a bastard son sullies the honour of the house (Tywin, also Ned Stark).

And yet Tywin has no problem looking after for the abandoned bastard daughter of his brother Gerion. Even arranging her a pretty good marriage, which would secure her future and the future of her children.

Tywin likely does not have bastards because he is discreet. He is in the majority in this regard as most Lords don't have bastards, at least bastards they have acknowledged or are aware of.

[talvikorppi]

1 hour ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

And yet Tywin has no problem looking after for the abandoned bastard daughter of his brother Gerion. Even arranging her a pretty good marriage, which would secure her future and the future of her children.

Tywin likely does not have bastards because he is discreet. He is in the majority in this regard as most Lords don't have bastards, at least bastards they have acknowledged or are aware of.

Joy HIll is half-Lannister, and Tywin will do anything to promote House Lannister. Oops, would've done, he'd dead now. Of his heirs, I can see Jaime and Tyrion doing something for the girl, Cersei not so much.

I agree, Tywin probably has no or very few bastards (discretion doesn't come into it, it's biological), certainly no acknowledged ones. He's like most lords in this respect. That is why it was so "shocking" that the honourable Ned Stark acknowleged his bastard and even brought him up along his trueborn children. Good camouflage, if R+L=J is true. The attention (such as it was) was on Ned, not the baby.

[239JMFL34109]

3 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

Joy HIll is half-Lannister, and Tywin will do anything to promote House Lannister. Oops, would've done, he'd dead now. Of his heirs, I can see Jaime and Tyrion doing something for the girl, Cersei not so much.

I agree, Tywin probably has no or very few bastards (discretion doesn't come into it, it's biological), certainly no acknowledged ones. He's like most lords in this respect. That is why it was so "shocking" that the honourable Ned Stark acknowleged his bastard and even brought him up along his trueborn children. Good camouflage, if R+L=J is true. The attention (such as it was) was on Ned, not the baby.

Yeah. All it takes is one time and if you do it enough it will precautions will probably fail. Also If someone did end up pregnant i could see them knowing enough that while he might not want to hurt the child; he is not going to congratulate the mother.  they would probably run away and hide or whatever. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

7 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

Joy HIll is half-Lannister, and Tywin will do anything to promote House Lannister. Oops, would've done, he'd dead now. Of his heirs, I can see Jaime and Tyrion doing something for the girl, Cersei not so much.

He'd already done it.

"Mention was made of a match for him as well. A bride from Casterly Rock. Your lord father said that Raynald should have joy of him, if all went as we hoped."

Even from the grave, Lord Tywin's dead hand moves us all. "Joy is my late uncle Gerion's natural daughter. A betrothal can be arranged, if that is your wish, but any marriage will need to wait. Joy was nine or ten when last I saw her."

 

Arranging a marriage for Joy to the heir of the Crag is a pretty great move for a bastard. It does more for Joy than it does for House Lannister. And the fact that while Gerion left his young bastard to fend for herself it was Tywin, as the patriarch of the family, who has taken care for her shows that bastards are not as big a deal to him as you are suggesting. There have been Bastards who have become Hand's of the King, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard or held prominent positions of office. They are not the pariah you seem to think they are.

 

Quote

 He's like most lords in this respect. That is why it was so "shocking" that the honourable Ned Stark acknowleged his bastard and even brought him up along his trueborn children. Good camouflage, if R+L=J is true. The attention (such as it was) was on Ned, not the baby.

Many Lords acknowledge their bastards, there is nothing shocking about that. It seems though they foster them elsewhere rather than bring them up at their own House.

 

5 hours ago, talvikorppi said:

Gerion's bastard daughter Joy Hill will never be legitimised as long as Tywin holds power... oh, wait! He's dead! I can imagine Jaime or Tyrion petitioning the king/queen to legitimise Joy.

When was the last time any bastard was legitimized in Westeros? It is a rarity, something that happens when there is a shortage of heirs.

I think you are grasping at straws trying to lay the blame on Tywin for her not being legitimized. Bastards happen in Westeros, it does not seem to be quite the big deal that you think it is.

 

 

[239JMFL34109]

I don't know if most bastards are acknowledged or not. It seems like most of the time to be acknowledged they have to have been from a union of two highborns? so i would think most lords have more unacknowledged bastards.  the SUPER rare thing with Jon was raising him alongside the trueborn children. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

6 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

I don't know if most bastards are acknowledged or not. It seems like most of the time to be acknowledged they have to have been from a union of to highborns? so i would think most lords have more unacknowledged bastards.  the SUPER rare thing with Jon was raising him alongside the trueborn children. 

 

Joy Hill's mother was a daughter of a peasant. We know that Walder's bastard son Ryger was a peasant who milked goats. I'd imagine that most (if not all) of Walder's acknowledged bastards were from peasants. We really don't know enough about the majority of the bastards to say one way or the other.

 

 

[Lion of the West]

6 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I doubt this is true considering the tunnel to Chataya's is most likely his. So he was probably using this tunnel the whole time he was in KL acting as Hand the first and didn't leave KL until after Joanna's death.

In regards to the OP, I think its possible that Tywin has bastards, but I doubt they'll be of any consequence to the plot.

Well, Tyrion was one horny Hand of the King, yet he didn't use or even know of the tunnel. Just because Varys uses the tunnel to unfuriate Tyrion don't mean that Tywin used it. In fact I find the whole scene where Tyrion kills Tywin to have been far to convinient for Tyrion for it not to have been arranged. And I think it was Varys who arranged it.

7 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

I think that Tywin had some XXX in King's Landing while Joanna was away at Casterly Rock. And after he probably had a mistress or two, whom he keeped in check. Maybe some revelations will come out? Someone will discover a money trail to some woman and her kids, kids who happen to look like lannisters.

You are free to think what you wish. I think the opposite is true as there have been other Lords Paramount like Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully and Mace Tyrell who do not seem to have had any bastards. At least that we know of. But its of course possible something new will come out, but I don't hold my breath for it.

[239JMFL34109]

10 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

Well, Tyrion was one horny Hand of the King, yet he didn't use or even know of the tunnel. Just because Varys uses the tunnel to unfuriate Tyrion don't mean that Tywin used it. In fact I find the whole scene where Tyrion kills Tywin to have been far to convinient for Tyrion for it not to have been arranged. And I think it was Varys who arranged it.

You are free to think what you wish. I think the opposite is true as there have been other Lords Paramount like Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully and Mace Tyrell who do not seem to have had any bastards. At least that we know of. But its of course possible something new will come out, but I don't hold my breath for it.

Where do we see he didn't know of it? also Varys implies that a previous hand made use of the tunnel to bring whores into the tower of the hand. It is speculation that it is tywin cause tywin and tyrion seem to be a lot alike. Also yeah it was totally arranged by varys. it is just like how Tyrion wanted to meet the clansmen of the vale and etc... he wanted to give tyrion the chance at he wanted to do since the beginning of the series.  

We don't know of them having any bastards and other people having bastards doesn't prove anything but i got a feeling that tywin was very much like tyrion and cersei in that he has a problem with addictions with sex, booze, and power. 

[norwaywolf123]

7 hours ago, talvikorppi said:

Eh, I'm not understanding your grammar. Do you mean a bastard son could be used as an attack dog (like Roose Bolton has)? But the mere fact of a bastard son sullies the honour of the house (Tywin, also Ned Stark).

something like that

[Neds Secret]

I think Tywin has the same as Robert Baratheon, 3 kids he claims as his own that are all bastards, I believe Tywin to be impotent!

[norwaywolf123]

4 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

I think Tywin has the same as Robert Baratheon, 3 kids he claims as his own that are all bastards, I believe Tywin to me impotent!

if he were impotent i think he would have known. Maybe he go one of his brothers to fuck her for him? Kevan?

But i do not think he is impotent, Jaime and Cersei are Tywins, Tyrion im not sure of

[thelittledragonthatcould]

28 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

I think Tywin has the same as Robert Baratheon, 3 kids he claims as his own that are all bastards, I believe Tywin to me impotent!

What was he doing with Shae if he's impotent?

 

[Neds Secret]

32 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

What was he doing with Shae if he's impotent?

 

I'm not saying he cannot become aroused I think he shoots blanks and does not know it. He has no known Bastards, and no talk anywhere of potential illegitimate offspring so to me for a man of his wealth and position I would say he is not "virile" perhaps or whatever  the male version of infertile is,

[thelittledragonthatcould]

39 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

I'm not saying he cannot become aroused I think he shoots blanks and does not know it. He has no known Bastards, and no talk anywhere of potential illegitimate offspring so to me for a man of his wealth and position I would say he is not "virile" perhaps or whatever  the male version of infertile is,

Impotent means you can't get it up. The incident with Shae suggests that he can.

He is hardly the only noble who does not have bastards, and considering how discreet he is then it should not really be a problem. Jon Arryn, Mace Tyrell, Hoster Tully, Doran Martell, Stannis Baratheon all seem to have zero bastards. Maybe they are all infertile, but I doubt it.

[Neds Secret]

Further to this, in the world of ice and fire in the section on Aerys I think it discusses the rumours about Aerys having had Joanna Lannister as a paramour before She married Tywin but the writer tries to dismiss the possibility based an the premise that Tywin was to proud a man to ever lunch on another mans leavings or some such but we later see that to be a falsity evidenced by Shaes presence in Tywins bed on the night of Tywins death. To me this increased the possibility of Aerys having been with Joanna Lannister with Tywin either knowing and not caring or not knowing. Also in a rather ribald way would it not be ironic if Tywin was to have followed Aerys and Aerys natural born son Tyrion in relation to "being"'with then after both the father and then the son, is it a hidden clue?

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Possibly but not many if any at all.

Tywin seems to businesslike and dutiful to indulge in sex compulsivly. Once in a blue moon sure, but idk if any bastards.

Tyrion is the who has bastards if anyone does. How is it that he whores as much as he does and no bastards?

Contraception seems to not exist in Westeros, or be somewhat ineffective if it does

[norwaywolf123]

2 minutes ago, Seaworth'sShipmate said:

Possibly but not many if any at all.

Tywin seems to businesslike and dutiful to indulge in sex compulsivly. Once in a blue moon sure, but idk if any bastards.

Tyrion is the who has bastards if anyone does. How is it that he whores as much as he does and no bastards?

Contraception seems to not exist in Westeros, or be somewhat ineffective if it does

1. Tywin probably keep a mistress who knows her place i think. He pay's for the bastards training and so forth. Maybe he had a bastard that he had trained to be his heir if Tywin would give up on Jaime?

2. I think that Tyrion is sterile.