[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[HairGrowsBack]

1 minute ago, LadySoftheart said:

She's not just a prostitute in Volantis, right? She's a sex SLAVE with no choice. This was basically the opposite of what Tyrion does in Pentos in the books, forcing himself on Illyrio's dead-eyed slave girl. So ... Still Bizarro!world where Tyrion is the exact opposite of his book character and Jaime and Cersei have switched places.

Yeah but what is consent (or lack thereof), right ? That's not dramatically satisfying.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

Really don't know why I even bother reading those EW articles anymore. They are always infuriating.

Ironically enough, spoilers are what drove this series for the first five years. Just the fact that a good portion of the audience knew what was going to happen and anticipated not only seeing it rendered on television, but the reactions of the unsullied, became such a huge cultural phenomenon. It's kind of what Game of Thrones has become known for and it was part of the fun (in the beginning, anyway).

Now it just smells like fear to me. They won't have "Well George told us this happens..." to fall back on any more for their decisions.

[Le Cygne]

44 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

She's not just a prostitute in Volantis, right? She's a sex SLAVE with no choice. This was basically the opposite of what Tyrion does in Pentos in the books, forcing himself on Illyrio's dead-eyed slave girl. So ... Still Bizarro!world where Tyrion is the exact opposite of his book character and Jaime and Cersei have switched places.

Not only once but twice. And of course, murders Shae in self-defense. Why did she make him do that?

(So I basically lost count coming up with opposites, after about 20...)

/Game of Opposites

[thehandwipes]

Uh, I just saw the second trailer with Dany being stripped and the "Dany meets a strong man" description of episode one.  Is anyone else already angry and sick at the idea of Jhaqo sexually humiliating Dany so she can prove how tough she is by Deadpanning her way through it till the Daario Brothers can save her? 

[sarah.jenice]

On 4/12/2016 at 4:57 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Cheers, Ran! 

@Cas Stark, 

I think it's more of the same nonsense, people will find it easier if it's characters they "know". Manderlys have never been seen, not even in the good ole days, whereas Mormonts are a familiar name. People know Jeor and Jorah, and last year they "introduced" Lyanna. 

Mind you, I think it's stupid. I think it's completely idiotic that we can't have Manderlys and Mormonts both. Because even if we did have both, that'd mean the whole of the north has... Four houses? Five if we count the Cerwyns, who were only mentioned in passing and shown in all their flayed glory for a few seconds. And I find it especially stupid because the Manderly/Davos plot is awesome and would look amazing on TV. 

Maybe they think it's too many M names in the North for TV viewers to follow. These are the people who decided the Asha/Yara, Robert Arryn/Robin Arryn, Cleos Frey/Alton Lannister and Three-Eyed Crow/Three-Eyed Raven name changes (among other things) were necessary for audience comprehension.

Certainly no one likes a TV show that makes them have to think too hard about stuff or pay attention to details or remember a bunch of characters with similar names or listen to exposition without a breast or two in the background. I mean, it's not as if there's some magical place called the Internet where you could go to quickly and easily find answers on anything you could possibly want to know about GOT.

I find it so frustrating that they seem to think the story needs to be dumbed down and spattered with shocks for it to be successful on TV. I have absolutely no problem with gratuitous sex and violence (loved the campy ridiculousness of Spartacus on Starz), but I still want substance and strong characters that aren't relegated to being plot devices.

[Cas Stark]

56 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Not only once but twice. And of course, murders Shae in self-defense. Why did she make him do that?

(So I basically lost count coming up with opposites, after about 20...)

/Game of Opposites

HAHAHA.  That has to be one of my all time greatest bizarro-world events.  Shae the hooker with the heart of gold, who loves Tyrion more than a bag of diamonds, and who literally never STFU in any scene, decides, aw fuck it, why even bother to gain time by talking my way of this to the guy that I really loved until he sent me away for my own good, and I became stupid and didn't get it.  Nah, I know, I'll stab him without saying a word, that's the ticket.

No wonder nobody thought of it as how they were going to get out of Shae being opposite her book self.

[Tijgy]

I am actually really sad about the fact they completely ignored the harvest feast (I love that chapter, I love the introduction of the Reeds, I love the fact Bran sends ew vegetables (IRRC) to the Freys, ... Second best chapter of Bran POV IMO) I was (again) writing a post about a certain part of it: 

On the dais, Lord Wyman attacked a steaming plate of lampreys as if they were an enemy host. He was so fat that Ser Rodrik had commanded that a special wide chair be built for him to sit in, but he laughed loud and often, and Bran thought he liked him. Poor wan Lady Hornwood sat beside him, her face a stony mask as she picked listlessly at her food. At the opposite end of the high table, Hothen and Mors were playing a drinking game, slamming their horns together as hard as knights meeting in joust.

It is too hot here, and too noisy, and they are all getting drunk. Bran itched under his grey and white woolens, and suddenly he wished he were anywhere but here. It is cool in the godswood now. Steam is rising off the hot pools, and the red leaves of the weirwood are rustling.

Cannot this be seen as a foreshadowing of the "Northern CIvil War" Lord Wyman attacking something, Lady Hornwood with a stony mask/listlessly (dead), Hother and Mors in a fight and Bran somewhere else. 

But yeah, all those people are of course according to D&D not important because they are of course completely ignored. Because why would those Northern Lords be important  or be interesting?  

Still if this can be seen as foreshadowing, this would mean the F/reys are lamp/reys (because they are attacked by Wyman)!!! 

[Prince of the North]

4 hours ago, Ruhail said:

New article

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/game-thrones-spoilers

HA!  Thanks for this!  I especially like this florid bit of writing:

Quote

A degree of their frustration likely stems from how famously difficultThrones is to produce. When you’re working year-round managing hundreds of cast and crew members to make every frame of an epic fantasy series as perfect as possible, your goal every day is to maximize the viewer’s eventual experience. As many Emmys asThrones now has on its collective cast and crew mantel, the show has never been about pleasing the elite (critics are not even receiving screeners this year), but about crafting the best possible show for the show’s legions of fans. 

Couple things: 1) If the show is so damn difficult to produce then I guess they weren't the guys for the job! and 2) Sure they don't care about what the "elite" or critics say or how much acclaim they get!  Right!

[Meera of Tarth]

31 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

Maybe they think it's too many M names in the North for TV viewers to follow. These are the people who decided the Asha/Yara, Robert Arryn/Robin Arryn, Cleos Frey/Alton Lannister and Three-Eyed Crow/Three-Eyed Raven name changes (among other things) were necessary for audience comprehension.

Certainly no one likes a TV show that makes them have to think too hard about stuff or pay attention to details or remember a bunch of characters with similar names or listen to exposition without a breast or two in the background. I mean, it's not as if there's some magical place called the Internet where you could go to quickly and easily find answers on anything you could possibly want to know about GOT.

I find it so frustrating that they seem to think the story needs to be dumbed down and spattered with shocks for it to be successful on TV. I have absolutely no problem with gratuitous sex and violence (loved the campy ridiculousness of Spartacus on Starz), but I still want substance and strong characters that aren't relegated to being plot devices.

When I was an Unsullied, in the first episodes of the first season, and the first ones  of the second, I fount it difficult to remember many names, but the way they were introduced and how the story progressed in different locations (there were storylines at that time) was really good, because I finally was able to remember everyone. In the novels, I think it's more difficult, not because how is it written, but because there are tons of characters (many many more), but still, the main ones are easy to follow due to the POV structure.

What I can't understand is why they change the names. Are Asha and Osha so similar? Ok, they are. But would anyone confuse them? They are so different. 

By the way, the changing of names is not something I'd care about if Season 5 had followed a logical storyline. The substance, as you point out.

I wonder....how will they make us remember Edmure, Rickon, Osha or The Blackfish? Too many people........maybe killing others? Why did they kill Ser Barristan, for instance? Because they needed space for the new ones. I can understand that is needed at some point, but make sure it follows a storyline, please!

[Ruhail]

9 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

HA!  Thanks for this!  I especially like this florid bit of writing:

Couple things: 1) If the show is so damn difficult to produce then I guess they weren't the guys for the job! and 2) Sure they don't care about what the "elite" or critics say or how much acclaim they get!  Right!

Its not like oh i dont know having a well stocked writer's room and writing fewer episodes could help eh? 

[sweetsunray]

36 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I am actually really sad about the fact they completely ignored the harvest feast (I love that chapter, I love the introduction of the Reeds, I love the fact Bran sends ew vegetables (IRRC) to the Freys, ... Second best chapter of Bran POV IMO) I was (again) writing a post about a certain part of it: 

On the dais, Lord Wyman attacked a steaming plate of lampreys as if they were an enemy host. He was so fat that Ser Rodrik had commanded that a special wide chair be built for him to sit in, but he laughed loud and often, and Bran thought he liked him. Poor wan Lady Hornwood sat beside him, her face a stony mask as she picked listlessly at her food. At the opposite end of the high table, Hothen and Mors were playing a drinking game, slamming their horns together as hard as knights meeting in joust.

It is too hot here, and too noisy, and they are all getting drunk. Bran itched under his grey and white woolens, and suddenly he wished he were anywhere but here. It is cool in the godswood now. Steam is rising off the hot pools, and the red leaves of the weirwood are rustling.

Cannot this be seen as a foreshadowing of the "Northern CIvil War" Lord Wyman attacking something, Lady Hornwood with a stony mask/listlessly (dead), Hother and Mors in a fight and Bran somewhere else. 

But yeah, all those people are of course according to D&D not important because they are of course completely ignored. Because why would those Northern Lords be important  or be interesting?  

Still if this can be seen as foreshadowing, this would mean the F/reys are lamp/reys (because they are attacked by Wyman)!!! 

I like it. And indeed it may be a foreshadowing scene,or organically became one (when he later had to choose the Northern players for the WF situation, he could just go back to this scene and select these characters). The word 'stone' is a word George typically uses to tie to the dead (the stone statues). But there's also the "mask" word... a "mask" is a false identity. He refers to the Umber brothers at opposite sides (joust), but note too it's a game for them. One of them is faking to be at the opposite side. And with Lady Hornwood, there's also the fact that before this scene all these men had proposals of who was to be her new husband or whether the bastard or cousin was to be named the heir. WIth the mask and stone (death) Lady Hornwood seems indeed a precursor of the fake Arya (because they believe the real one is dead anyway), and of course she's wed to Ramsay by force and he usurps the lands of the Hornwoods, but not long after the marriage she starves to death (is that Jeyne Poole's fate? Poor thing!!!!!!!! ). Luwin, Bran and Cassel defer the issue for Robb to decide.... And Robb wrote a will.   And then the Reeds show up to prove and attest their loyalty to the Starks.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, sarah.jenice said:

Maybe they think it's too many M names in the North for TV viewers to follow. These are the people who decided the Asha/Yara, Robert Arryn/Robin Arryn, Cleos Frey/Alton Lannister and Three-Eyed Crow/Three-Eyed Raven name changes (among other things) were necessary for audience comprehension.

Certainly no one likes a TV show that makes them have to think too hard about stuff or pay attention to details or remember a bunch of characters with similar names or listen to exposition without a breast or two in the background. I mean, it's not as if there's some magical place called the Internet where you could go to quickly and easily find answers on anything you could possibly want to know about GOT.

I find it so frustrating that they seem to think the story needs to be dumbed down and spattered with shocks for it to be successful on TV. I have absolutely no problem with gratuitous sex and violence (loved the campy ridiculousness of Spartacus on Starz), but I still want substance and strong characters that aren't relegated to being plot devices.

Yes, it is infuriating. The thing with the names was the topic of several rants here last year. Because, as you point out, let's change Asha to Yara because people will get confused - love how little faith they have in their audience. And yet, they CREATE filler dumb characters called... Olly and Olyvar!

[Ruhail]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-end-date-season-8-1201752746/ 

Huh aren't the seasons already pretty compact? 

[Joan Jett]

3 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-end-date-season-8-1201752746/ 

Huh aren't the seasons already pretty compact? 

That's what I'm saying! It's so weird. I guess they're having a hard time adjusting to HBO insisting on 8 seasons.

This means there will only be 13 episodes left after season 6 is done. I mean, I'm glad it's ending sooner, but it's still weird.

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Joan Jett said:

That's what I'm saying! It's so weird. I guess they're having a hard time adjusting to HBO insisting on 8 seasons.

Or they're anticipating that maybe the demand for 17 series won't be there anymore.

[LadySoftheart]

1 hour ago, Ruhail said:

Its not like oh i dont know having a well stocked writer's room and writing fewer episodes could help eh? 

Your comment got me to do a little research - I could have done this for more shows, but I picked four total (including GoT), all of which are critically acclaimed tv shows and all of which feature "action" to some degree. (Also I like them - well, I used to like GoT.) And here are some pretty startling statistics (I looked at the number of episodes of the show aired, the number of different writers, how many episodes were written by showrunners, how many women in the writers' room and what number of episodes they wrote, how many different directors, and how many women directors, and what episodes they directed.

The Americans: 52 episodes (through season 4) - Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields are the showrunners. Out of 52 episodes, they've written 13 together, and Weisberg's done 2 solo, and Fields has done 1. That means the showrunners have written or co-written 28.84% of the episodes. They have fourteen different writers (five female writers), and no one else has written more than 5 episodes. They've had 27 different directors (five ladies) and only a couple of directors have done 5 episodes (everyone else has done fewer).

The Wire: 60 episodes (five seasons) - David Simon and Ed Burns were the showrunners, and together they wrote 29 of the episodes (so almost 50%). Only two ladies in the writers room, who wrote a four episodes, out of a total of 13 writers, but among those 13 were three award-winning novelists, Richard Price, Dennis Lehane and George Pelecanos, who, together, wrote 15 episodes out of the 60 (25%) - suggesting that, well, Simon didn't feel threatened by these talented writers, but instead used them to great effect on his show. Directors: 27 different directors, 5 ladies - the most famous of whom was probably the Polish film director Agniezka Holland. 

Breaking Bad: 62 episodes - 11 different writers, 3 ladies. The showrunner Vince Gilligan wrote 12 episodes, for a total of 19.35%. 15 episodes (nearly 25%) were by women writers, the most prolific being Moira Walley-Beckett with 9 (which ties her with Peter Gould who also wrote 9 - they wrote the most episodes of any writer but Gilligan. Moira Walley-Beckett was the author of probably the single-best episode of the series, Season 5's "Ozymandias." There were 27 different directors for BB including a couple of stints by the show's star, Bryan Cranston. Three ladies directed BB episodes, and of them Michelle Maclaren directed 11 episodes, far more than any other director.

And now let's look at Game of Thrones. Over 50 episodes, they have had seven writers (only two of them ladies, and one, Jane Espenson, only had a co-writing credit with Benioff and Weiss on ONE episode). The other was Vanessa Taylor with 3 episodes out of 50. (Also, notably, no one but Benioff & Weiss, Cogman, Hill or Martin has written for the show since season 3.) Meanwhile, Benioff and Weiss have written 34 of the 50 episodes (68% - as you can see more than ANY of the other showrunners on my list, including David Simon, whose contributions were mostly in the early days, and who had already written for Homicide based on his own book, and The Corner with Ed Burns, so he already had experience with TV). Next, we get Cogman with 7, GRRM with 4, Taylor with 3. As for directors, there have been 16, only one lady (Maclaren with 4 episodes). It's a really HUGE discrepancy to other "prestige dramas" and I'm really curious about why. Do they just not want other writers taking their "glory"? (Again, Simon had a bunch of award-winning novelists in his writers' room, and he let them, y'know, WRITE!)  Anyway, I just thought this was a rather interesting comparison and yes, maybe if they're just too exhausted by all their work, they should hire some real other writers to work on the show.

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

Your comment got me to do a little research - I could have done this for more shows, but I picked four total (including GoT), all of which are critically acclaimed tv shows and all of which feature "action" to some degree. (Also I like them - well, I used to like GoT.) And here are some pretty startling statistics (I looked at the number of episodes of the show aired, the number of different writers, how many episodes were written by showrunners, how many women in the writers' room and what number of episodes they wrote, how many different directors, and how many women directors, and what episodes they directed.

<snip>

Wow. Really, WOW. Add to that all those filming units and cast and crew, hundreds of countries and locations... No wonder it's turned into such a mess, and no wonder the plot holes and inconsistencies only get worse and worse. 

[LadySoftheart]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Wow. Really, WOW. Add to that all those filming units and cast and crew, hundreds of countries and locations... No wonder it's turned into such a mess, and no wonder the plot holes and inconsistencies only get worse and worse. 

When I have more time, I want to check Mad Men and a couple of other HBO shows. I really think the level of writing involvement of D&D is a bit of a signal that they really were not prepared to run such an enormous undertaking if they are so involved in the writing. That's not the showrunner's only job. No wonder they are exhausted! And no wonder they forget to check for continuity.

 

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

When I have more time, I want to check Mad Men and a couple of other HBO shows. I really think the level of writing involvement of D&D is a bit of a signal that they really were not prepared to run such an enormous undertaking if they are so involved in the writing. That's not the showrunner's only job. No wonder they are exhausted! And no wonder they forget to check for continuity.

 

No, no wonder at all. I still think that their interpretation of the story is completely off, and that's a completely separate issue. But it all adds up, and the result is... well, this version we're getting. 

[The Fattest Leech]

I'm just gonna put this here incase no one has seen it yet...

http://watchersonthewall.com/benioff-and-weiss-reportedly-considering-abbreviated-final-seasons/#more-61433