[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[Le Cygne]

13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

That doesn't give him much time to do anything, will he have time to beam himself North?  Or will it just be 'SHOCKING' here he is not dead.  And whatever happens is next year?  LOL.

Time means nothing on a show where nothing is just nothing. None of them are reportedly at Winterhell in episode 9, so maybe the finale.

But if Brienne brings Arya and the Hound back with her, what about Jaime? She can't just leave him, just when he recovers from Larryhood.

[Tijgy]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Stop!

 

Sorry 

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Stop!

 

 

Yeah, I know. It's just such a horrible, horrible thought... But the show loves this PoS, what can I say? He's awesomeness is second only to St Tyrion's. And the thought of this utterly despicable #*%^#^} arriving to save the stupid, weak, and useless Starks is enough to make me wanna puke, but I know when I actually see that on tv it will be so much worse... 

Poor dumb weak Starks, no wonder they're practically extinct.  Yes, it's awful that people will be tweeting woohoo go LF!  He'll be the hero of the battle of winterfell...but I guess he will ride up with boss.ass.bitch and that will be her empowerment.  

[kissdbyfire]

This is perfect, @Low Sparrow came up with Reekon!

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Poor dumb weak Starks, no wonder they're practically extinct.  Yes, it's awful that people will be tweeting woohoo go LF!  He'll be the hero of the battle of winterfell...but I guess he will ride up with boss.ass.bitch and that will be her empowerment.  

Yeah, the true hero, amazing. And at this point I'd rather see the Stark line go extinct, just like the Baratheons and Martells. 

ETA Fucking Larry, the autocorrect gets everything wrong. 

[Tijgy]

LF the hero of the North makes me just sick. But really. 

[sweetsunray]

I said it before, but I think Brute will kill Larry in epi 10.

S4: Brute throws the Hound from a cliff in the finale

S5: Brute finishes Stannis in the finale

S6: Brute finishes Larry in the finale

She's been killing important male characters since S4 in every finale. I really don't think they'll go the romantic angle with them. Larry has become a worser version of Carol worhsipper than S1 version, fine with UnGregor and wanting to use him to murder a High Septon. And Brute, she's a killing machine.

[Le Cygne]

23 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LF is going to give the "Rally The North" speech to the Vale Lords. If we're lucky he'll do it sitting on a horse with a sword in his hand for max cheese effects.  

LF with a sword, don't know if I should laugh or cry. Hopefully the first thing Sandor does when he sees him is chop him in two.

[OldGimletEye]

3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

LF with a sword, don't know if I should laugh or cry. Hopefully the first thing Sandor does when he sees him is chop him in two.

I'd like him to punch him the face first and say,"That's for stealing my lines!" and then chop him up.

[sweetsunray]

6 hours ago, Liver and Onions said:

Very nicely put.  Sounds like this kind of a scene would have been more impactful than just ol' Arthur "Two Swords" Dayne. And the show runners have displayed a predictable love for giving us the happy scenes before laying on the horrible ones, so this should have been right up their alley.

I wonder if present-day Howland Reed is going to show up at all. Seems like Bran is going to find out the big secret all on his own.

At this point, does anyone think there's going to be an end-of-series, after-credits sequence where Gendry finally lands somewhere and is standing all alone in the devastation, wondering what happened?

Yeah, of course, the way I'd imagine such a happy dance scene at HH during the tourney festivities is of course different than how D&D tend to do the manipulation. It's of course not meant imo to manipulate, but in order to make the point how tragic the ToJ confrontation was, a waste, from Ned's POV without having S1 Ned at hand to wire it through.

Doubt we'll ever see HR.

Gendry: more likely we'll see his rowboat eaten by a Kraken or something

[Le Cygne]

25 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Nooooooooooooooooo. 

Protect the Direwolves!

Let's write a (morbid) song for them.

Six little wolves were kept alive

Ned stabbed one of them and then there were five

Five little wolves snuggling on the floor

The Freys shot one of them and then there were four

Four little wolves nuzzled a Stark knee

An Umber beheaded one of them and then there were three

  Reveal hidden contents

Three little wolves found a cockscrew,

Ramsay slited Ghost's throat and then there were two

Two little wolves run under the wintersun, 

???? and then there were one

One little wolf wrestled next to a tree

??? sacrificed him and then summer begun*

(Because I believe you cannot kill Summer off before the ending of the winter

OMG! That was very good! See, we just laugh, it's not really happening. The story through a glass darkly. 

[CrastorsLivingSon]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Gendry: more likely we'll see his rowboat eaten by a Kraken or something

He was found by Euron.  Will blow the dragon horn.  It is known.  ;D

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I said it before, but I think Brute will kill Larry in epi 10.

S4: Brute throws the Hound from a cliff in the finale

S5: Brute finishes Stannis in the finale

S6: Brute finishes Larry in the finale

She's been killing important male characters since S4 in every finale. I really don't think they'll go the romantic angle with them. Larry has become a worser version of Carol worhsipper than S1 version, fine with UnGregor and wanting to use him to murder a High Septon. And Brute, she's a killing machine.

I hope so. I honestly can stand watching Larry anymore. And the fact that NCW is so PERFECT as Jaime makes the butchery all the more painful, just as it was with Stannis/Dillane. 

[Maid So Fair]

7 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

FIrst of all, overall superb post, and I have been wondering the exact same thing.

Wall: cut the crap of Allister first getting the majority to go along and Davos & Co trapped in a room with Jon. Just have Allister & Co arrested in episode 1. Have then Mel try to resurrect Jon, but seemingly fail and she goes to her room and lais down her glamor. Cut to Jon waking up.

Braavos: do the training montage first, and if you really want to extend the blindness, have her spy as a blind begging girl to earn her stripes with them and overhear about a coup in Dorne and how Braavosi are disuccing the situation in Slaver's Bay - first freed slaves and now back to slaving, except Mereen (saves us boring stuff in Mereen, and Dorne scenes can be dropped)

Mereen: they could have done everything in one episode. Mereen Council discussing the threats, Tyrion freeing dragons, and one of them putting the fleet into flames... Or if they didn't want to do that... Just have an air shot of the burning fleet - cut to council, and Tyrion frees dragons.

Sansa & Co: imo Theon is the one to die in the 4th episode. 4th episode often means a long time actor/actress dying. Joffrey, Barristan. Just stop with this formulastic nonsense. Just have Theon die while giving his life to defend Sansa, and then have Brute show up. Skip the talk and have it later, because there's a valid excuse to get to the Wall asap and not linger (which leads to other plot hole realization... Why isn't Ramsay off to hunt for Sansa, or sends other search parties?) At least it would have the poignant impact of Theon being the hero, while Brute is taken down a notch for going after Stannis.

KL: don't go there for the first episode, have Jaime arrive with dead Myrcella toward the end of  epi 2, keep Trystane as a hostage, and then have a serious council meeting in epi 3.

Pyke: Have Balon killed by a FM (so that scene has to come before an Arya Braavos scene, and after Theon dying in the first episode to sacrifice his life. Then cut to the funeral and Euron showing up there, with Yara being less familiar about Euron, and in that way have the Kingsmoot come up.

Dany: just do the epi 3 scenes, drop the unecessary filler of the first episode.

As for Bran... We went from an "innocent kids in the WF yard scene" to the ToJ. It's quite a jump. Too much of a jump. And after rewatching the scene a few times (only thing I did rewatch) I've come to the conclusion what truly bothers me about it. See, Ned respected Arthur Dayne, and he at least had a thing once for Ashara, Arthur's little sister. Ned "beating" Arthur is not so much about the most badass fighter ending up dead, but that these were two men who knew each other, respected each other and probably would have liked each other even in another life, and ended up at opposing sides and interests. They should have used a FB where Lyanna, Ned, Arthur and Ashara and Howland Reed feature and dance. Heck have Gendry's actor (or lookalike) play as young Robert. They don't have to do the Knight of the Laughing Tree or the crowning of Lyanna or even a tourney scene. Just a scene of happy times and where perhaps Arthur Dayne nudged his little sister to go dance with shy Ned. Then have the battle scene as 3rd FB, with dual wielding if they wanted it so badly. But by inserting a scene where these characters had shared a happier time, even though they were nothing more than acquaintances, ... then you have the actual poignancy of that battle.  The only actor who managed to play that emotion was Dayne; Sure, Ned is understandably anxious about his sister, but they simply played the contained angry angle with Ned, not the defeated, sad realization that it had come to this. To then cut the ToJ at Arthur's death would be poignant.

Thank you .

I really wish they had burned Jon. It's not the most original idea ever but I honestly don't understand why they didn't go with it. It would have looked epic on TV, mirrored Dany's own pyre scen e with all the Targ parallels they have so far failed to seed and make sense for all involved (whatever everyone's opinion about Jon they should be able to agree on burning the body). Or if they wanted to go with the ressurencion as they did it, rather then drawing it out they could have simply left him out of an episode or two to build up tension. Everything at the Wall could have been resolved so much more quickly had everybody already been in place as in the books. And the worst thing is that all this filler isn't even about Jon - we don't learn much about his state of mind, and we don't really get to see how his leadership affects the Watch. The only character that gets some development is Mel.

Oh Meereen how could I have forgotten about Meereen. Very scene so far has been just filler/exposition info dump apart from Tyrion releasing the dragons (something that might have worked better if it happened off screen and they were freed by some random people trying to steal them Quentyn style) and they didn't even tie it together. I love the idea of the dragons torching the fleet - finally one  of Tyrions choices having actual consequences rather than the narrative bending over backwards for him.

Oh I do hope you're wrong about Theon - that would make his three season torture porn arc even more pointless. But with this show you never know. 

KL: When even Tommen, who seems to have trouble tying his own shoelaces suggests that he thinks it would make most sense if Cersei killed Trystane, you can tell that your plotting is atrocious. Literally nothing has happened so far. There was a perfect opportunity to address at least some of this at the SC scene, but of course reenacting you can't sit with us highschool drama seemed more important.

TOJ:

They seem to have gone out of their way to remove any stakes in the fight. Providing zero information about the KG members before is a part of that as well as failing to explain thei r connection with Ned. But I think it goes much deeper than that. Within the scene itself, I have no idea why these people are even fighting. They took out most of the dialogue where Ned is genuinely confused about why the hell thenKG are there and unless you're especially perceptive, without repeating the point it is impossible to figure out there's anything genuinely off about the KG being at the TOJ and not with the King, especially because we haven't seen them painted as these super honourable knights on par if not better than Ser Barry. Worse, unlike their book counterpart that make it clear they were exactly where they wanted to be, their excuse for being there is basically following orders. And they replace it with Ned asking them where his sister is, which just WTF? If he doesn't think she's there, why is he fighting these dudes? Experience points? And they're defending her frommhernown brother because Rheagar told them to? Without Jon being revealed at the end the fight seems completely pointless. If they didn't want to reveal his secret identity this early,they shouldn't have had the scene at all an pushed it back into a later episode. Besides, with TOJ out of the way what else is there for Bran to see?

The worst thing is that leaving out all character based drama seems to be a part of a much larger pattern - they don't know how to write it unless it falls into their lap and so they sem to systematically eradicate it from the narrative, relying on cheap shocks to stimulate the effect. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes the books iconic. They claim that Ned's execution and the RW made them want to adapt the series  but it's clear they don't understand what made these scenes shocking. Its not because they came out of nowhere - quite the opposite actually. Especially on a reread the foreshadowing is painfully obvious. We have all the prices of the puzzle, the characters mistakes are obvious, but you convince yourself that that lat ditch plan is going to work despite everything pointing to the contrary because you love the characters and don't start to contemplate the possibility of the failure.

GOT is the opposite. Nothing can be seeded or motivated in advance, because that wouldn't be SHOCKING. Characters make decisions that are either obvious or out of nowhere. They took away Jon's arc in S5 in favour of a CGI battle, made Dany so inconsistent she couldn't have one, took away Brienne's dilemma re Stannis, simplified Arya's and Bran's choices. Theon got an actual Stark to rescue. They reduced Snsa to a helpless victim. Cersei never does anything controversial to protect her children. Jaime never does anything interesting full stop.  In TOJ they made sure neither side had any motivation beforehand because then you couldn't have a SHOCKING reveal in the next episode. It happens time and time again and the result is that, as someone pointed out up thread, that the characters are so flat it's hard to give a damn about any of them. 

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I like him to punch him the face first and say,"That's for stealing my lines!" and then chop him up.

Then we'll get the same Airplane scenario with a long queue of people waiting to do the same, like Jon's stabbing!

 

[Le Cygne]

He could become Jaime again.

Fairytales can come true, it can happen to you, if Brienne the Brute loves you.

[OldGimletEye]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Then we'll get the same Airplane scenario with a long queue of people waiting to do the same, like Jon's stabbing!

 

Most Definitely.

Also, if only we could get the same line for St. Tyrion too.

[CoddisTheGoddis]

I'm with everyone who's afraid that Littlefinger is going to save the North...

The show is starting to feel like a fanfic written by someone who really doesn't like the Starks. Retroactively making Ned into a bragging asshole while turning Varys into a Good Guy sealed the deal for me. 

I have a suspicion that when D&D read asoiaf they self-insert HARD into clever plotter characters like Tyrion, Varys or Littlefinger. They see those characters as basically the real heroes of the story since they're not "naive" and "backwards" like the Starks, and "they're real smart and witty just like me!" 

That's the only thing I can think of that explains their weird pet characters like Tyrion, Cersei, ShowRamsay etc

 

[alienarea]

I hope that Anguy the archer shoots Brute in the Riverlands because he can.

"I shot a Brute near the Twins, just to watch her die ..."

[CoddisTheGoddis]

Speaking of theories about the show, I think I know what the main difference between book and show King's Landing is. In the books, Cersei is an unreliable narrator. She doesn't understand other people as well as she thinks and she's very paranoid. The things she says about Jamie's character, about Margaery's character, about how everyone is conspiring against her children... they're mostly wrong, but sometimes with a grain of truth.

But in the show, Cersei has a near perfect read on other people. Almost every paranoid thought she has is completely true. It's like they took her chapters at face value.