Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion 5: Getting some Strange

[Which Tyler]

3 hours ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Just watched Iron Man and really enjoyed it. Looking forward to watching 2 next.

Are the Thor movies the least popular of the MCU?

Personally, I'd say it's the 2nd outings that are the worst.

IM 2; Thor 2; Avengers 2; even Hulk 2 (Hulk 1 isn't part of the MCU, so we can ignore it here).

These jostle about the bottom of the lists for me; with only Antman competing for a place at that particular table.

Oh, FWIW - I don't read comics, so the movies are the sum total of my knowledge of characters and storylines; readers and non-readers (for all properties) often disagree about these things.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Personally, I'd say it's the 2nd outings that are the worst.

IM 2; Thor 2; Avengers 2; even Hulk 2 (Hulk 1 isn't part of the MCU, so we can ignore it here).

These jostle about the bottom of the lists for me; with only Antman competing for a place at that particular table.

Oh, FWIW - I don't read comics, so the movies are the sum total of my knowledge of characters and storylines; readers and non-readers (for all properties) often disagree about these things.

I think this is generally accepted to be the case. For me Thor 2 ranks hard bottom. I remember almost nothing about it but I do remember being very bored by the end, wheras Thor 1 seemed to feature some over the top fun when they weren't on Earth. IM2 is a bit of a mess but has a lot of great elements. Its hard to hate a movie when you have Mickey Rourke chewing the scenery and Sam Rockwell is brilliant in every scene he's ever been in. Its just that they don't utilise these people enough.

Hulk 2.. well, I actually really enjoy most of it. It gets the Hulk mythos just right, the first half is great and I love the 'Bourne' parts where hes hiding out. Plus the big Hulk fight in the middle is fantastic, really showed off some excellent effects and fight choreography. Thei real problem is that it decends into a 'big bad' fight at the end , for no real reason. Just a CGI mess. 

Ant Man is really just a enjoyable romp. It could have used a lot more humour IMO but otherwise I really enjoyed it.

Even when Marvel produces a lesser movie its usually still pretty enjoyable. Compare it to DC or WB and you'll see the difference.

[Jack Bauer 24]

http://screenrant.com/marvel-inhumans-movie-kevin-feige-update/

Inhumans still planned.

[The BlackBear]

9 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

IM 2; Thor 2; Avengers 2; even Hulk 2 (Hulk 1 isn't part of the MCU, so we can ignore it here).

The incredible Hulk isn't a sequel.

Just as an interesting aside: Jon Favreau was given the choice of IH or IM and chose IM precisely because of one of the issues with Hulk, he felt the CG wasn't good enough to do a flesh and blood creature.

[Red Tiger]

7 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

The incredible Hulk isn't a sequel.

Just as an interesting aside: Jon Favreau was given the choice of IH or IM and chose IM precisely because of one of the issues with Hulk, he felt the CG wasn't good enough to do a flesh and blood creature.

I still don't think its good enough to do a flesh and blood creature. Whenever I see the Hulk in either Avengers film I keep thinking "yeah, there's really nothing there". It's distracting and often takes me out of the film.

[polishgenius]

10 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

IM 2; Thor 2; Avengers 2; even Hulk 2 (Hulk 1 isn't part of the MCU, so we can ignore it here).

I'm one of the few, but I really like Thor 2. It's one of my favourite MCU films- I think a lot of people didn't really like the sort of rom-commy thing it was going for but I enjoyed it and felt that they meshed that really well with the necessary superhero aspect (unlike say Winter Soldier which was more ambitious but got a bit uncomfortable towards the end in marrying the spy thriller it had been with the big superhero smackdown convention required it to be).

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just watched Incredible Hulk and I actually liked it. I hadn't seen any of the Phase 1 movies besides Avengers, so I'm going to go through them now. Iron Man last night, Incredible Hulk today and next will be Iron Man 2. 

[red snow]

30 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Just watched Incredible Hulk and I actually liked it. I hadn't seen any of the Phase 1 movies besides Avengers, so I'm going to go through them now. Iron Man last night, Incredible Hulk today and next will be Iron Man 2. 

I've only seen Inc Hulk the once but I always felt it was unfairly hated out of the phase 1 films (I actually found cap america the weakest). The phase 1 films are a little more rough around the edges but they aren't as formulaic as the phase 2 films.

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I'm one of the few, but I really like Thor 2. It's one of my favourite MCU films- I think a lot of people didn't really like the sort of rom-commy thing it was going for but I enjoyed it and felt that they meshed that really well with the necessary superhero aspect (unlike say Winter Soldier which was more ambitious but got a bit uncomfortable towards the end in marrying the spy thriller it had been with the big superhero smackdown convention required it to be).

I enjoyed Thor 2 a lot as well, although I'm definitely not going to deny it has flaws. I think the Dark Elf attack on Asgard is probably one of the better action set-pieces in the MCU and the finale was much more inventive than the CGI-robots-hitting-each-other that half the Marvel films seem to end with. I also think Loki works better as the trickster antihero in this rather than the megalomaniac villain of Avengers. On the downside, Christopher Ecclestone was completely wasted as a dull villain and I can understand why Natalie Portman wants to move on from the franchise since they really seemed to struggle with writing her character.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Did RDJ push Howard out?

[GallowKnight]

Pretty much. Howard was the bigger star at the time Iron Man was released and got a highest paycheck. When it came time for the sequel RDJ was the big star and was getting paid thereafter. Howard refused to take a pay cut and lost the role.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Watched Iron Man 2 and I liked it. Not as much as the first, but I did enjoy it. Three for three with Phase I so far. Thor tomorrow.

[The Mother of The Others]

Thor series kicks ass.

Maybe I'm biased.   I was into Norse myth years before discovering the rest of The Avengers.   Seeing Thor movies was bigger wish fulfillment for me than Ironman. 

Also, the ending theme from Thor 2 should have told you the film was awesome, because that's great music, which reminds the listener that Thor is great, which reminds you to rewatch Thor 2.     

Why does the Dark Elf get no respect as a villain?   What were people hoping to see different from Ecclesiast...icson?  (the villain guy with the long name).   What was the big letdown?  Wasn't he actually threatening the entire multiverse?????   That's the highest the stakes have even been in these movies.  He did scarier stuff than Thanos.   But none of that matters unless he's also a musclebound asskicker?  You still got one of those.  It just wasn't the main guy.  He delegated that job to his invulnerable horn-helmet buddy because he had loftier concerns.   The villain role was split up between all the dark elves, not a single super-specimen.  You got a Brainy Smurf and a Brawny Smurf and Army Death Squad Smurfs and Pilot Smurf.  People weren't satisfied by this Shareholder approach to evil?   Was it too realistic or something?    Or is he seen as the weakest villain because mere science took him down?   I thought it was hot when modern science was revealed as a power that could contend with these ancient beings who had their own demon-tech. 

[mormont]

11 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I'm one of the few, but I really like Thor 2. It's one of my favourite MCU films- I think a lot of people didn't really like the sort of rom-commy thing it was going for but I enjoyed it and felt that they meshed that really well with the necessary superhero aspect (unlike say Winter Soldier which was more ambitious but got a bit uncomfortable towards the end in marrying the spy thriller it had been with the big superhero smackdown convention required it to be).

I feel entirely the opposite. Thor 2 is probably my least favourite of the Marvel films, though I loved the first film. Thor 2, though... I couldn't disagree more about it meshing different elements. But the bigger problems are legion. The writing is poor, IMO. The production is unnecessarily dingy: I know it's called 'The Dark World' but they seem intent on taking that literally at times. The dark elves are wasted as faceless goons: none of them have any personality, even Eccleston, who must wish he hadn't bothered (until he checks his bank balance). They could be any alien race in any sci-fi movie. Natalie Portman's performance is wooden, but that's true of the first film as well. The charm of the first film is absent and the best elements of it are wasted: Asgard doesn't seem fantastic and inspiring. Sif and the Warriors Three probably get more screen time but somehow seem to make far less of an impact, and the travesty they make out of Erik Selveg is not only a ruin of a good character but flat out offensive to the mentally ill. Let's all laugh at the mad guy! Mad people take off their trousers for no reason, don't they? The plot was dull. The climax theoretically involves a threat to the multiverse and I just, didn't, care. Nothing in the film made me care about it. I didn't even care about the fate of Odin or Frigga.

On the plus side, Kat Dennings and Tom Hiddleston were great. And, well, that's about it.

I would lead a happy life if I never saw Thor 2 again.

[Red Tiger]

6 minutes ago, mormont said:

I feel entirely the opposite. Thor 2 is probably my least favourite of the Marvel films, though I loved the first film. Thor 2, though... I couldn't disagree more about it meshing different elements. But the bigger problems are legion. The writing is poor, IMO. The production is unnecessarily dingy: I know it's called 'The Dark World' but they seem intent on taking that literally at times. The dark elves are wasted as faceless goons: none of them have any personality, even Eccleston, who must wish he hadn't bothered (until he checks his bank balance). They could be any alien race in any sci-fi movie. Natalie Portman's performance is wooden, but that's true of the first film as well. The charm of the first film is absent and the best elements of it are wasted: Asgard doesn't seem fantastic and inspiring. Sif and the Warriors Three probably get more screen time but somehow seem to make far less of an impact, and the travesty they make out of Erik Selveg is not only a ruin of a good character but flat out offensive to the mentally ill. Let's all laugh at the mad guy! Mad people take off their trousers for no reason, don't they? The plot was dull. The climax theoretically involves a threat to the multiverse and I just, didn't, care. Nothing in the film made me care about it. I didn't even care about the fate of Odin or Frigga.

On the plus side, Kat Dennings and Tom Hiddleston were great. And, well, that's about it.

I would lead a happy life if I never saw Thor 2 again.

This (admittedly horrible) movie surfacing it's head again clearly fills you with rage.

I know what you need.

 

[mormont]

Thanks. But the only part that even slightly enrages me is the treatment of mental illness. The rest is just a film being bad, and bad films get made all the time for all sorts of reasons. There's no excuse for the Selvig stuff, though.

[The BlackBear]

4 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Why does the Dark Elf get no respect as a villain?   What were people hoping to see different from Ecclesiast...icson?  (the villain guy with the long name).   What was the big letdown?  Wasn't he actually threatening the entire multiverse?????   That's the highest the stakes have even been in these movies.  He did scarier stuff than Thanos.   But none of that matters unless he's also a musclebound asskicker?  You still got one of those.  It just wasn't the main guy.  He delegated that job to his invulnerable horn-helmet buddy because he had loftier concerns.   The villain role was split up between all the dark elves, not a single super-specimen.  You got a Brainy Smurf and a Brawny Smurf and Army Death Squad Smurfs and Pilot Smurf.  People weren't satisfied by this Shareholder approach to evil?   Was it too realistic or something?    Or is he seen as the weakest villain because mere science took him down?   I thought it was hot when modern science was revealed as a power that could contend with these ancient beings who had their own demon-tech. 

Because he has no charisma at all. Him not being a fighter is not the issue with him. Why did he want to do what he does? You never feel any need to sympathise with him. The stakes don't matter because we know he'll fail, and they never made it feel personal. You look at Civil War, it was clearly not about universal destruction, but it matters far more to you the viewer.

[The Wolves]

Question, but is adamantium and vibranium like the same alloy in the Marvel universe but named differently? 

Als which one is stronger if different?  

And is the Avengers Tower built with vibranium? 

[Red Tiger]

26 minutes ago, Leap said:

I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that Vibranium and Adamantium are different things. I think Adamantium is an alloy of Vibranium, but don't quote me on that. Certainly, Adamantium is weaker than Vibranium. But it's a case akin to Thor being weaker than Hulk, so it's still insanely strong compared to regular metals.

No, just no

[Red Tiger]

6 minutes ago, Leap said:

Alright, I did some googling and it appears I had a comprehension fail. Adamantium can't cut through Cap's shield, but only because that's not true vibranium or something like that.

Cap's shield was a freak accident between a form of iron and vibranium and it's never been succesfully replicated.

Vibranium comes in two shades, one is the Wakandan variety, which is very strong, but hardly indestructable and it can absorb a ton of energy but it has a limit.

The other brand is antarctic vibranium which can break molecular bonds and is basically anti-metal, but it's not THAT great at taking hits.

To put it simply, in terms of taking hits Cap's shield> pure adamantium (Wolverine's bones) >vibranium