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[Book Spoilers All] Bran’s Growing Powers in S6 Based upon the Reread


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On ‎31‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 0:00 AM, Tijgy said:

That’s the thing, though. Bran doesn’t exactly know everything. It’s a bit ambiguous. It’s like he’s got a Kindle library of everything in his head but he hasn’t read through it all yet. Whereas the other Three-Eyed Raven has sat in a tree for 1,000 years and has been able to look it all up and now knows it all by heart. Bran doesn’t yet, so it’s not like he’s withholding information, it’s just that he doesn’t know where to look yet.

- Anyway, Bran is so dead set on his ultimate destiny, which I think is something to do with those White Walkers, that all this sort of petty squabbling around him isn’t bothering him that much until someone says, “oh, can you look this up?”

Regards the bolded text, we saw this happen in the last episode when Sam asks Bran to check out his visions and confirm the marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna.  So Bran can literally dip in and out of history at will as long as someone pinpoints the exact event or time frame, so it's safe to say that Sam is well aware of this having recommended this particular section of the Kindle library and got results.

Therefore, Sam should be extremely excited about this as he has been carefully reading old texts to find anything that may be useful in defeating the White Walkers.  His next question should be something along the lines of 'could you go back and check out how the White Walkers were defeated' or 'is there some other information that we need arm ourselves with other than the fact dragonglass and Valyrian steel kill the White Walkers' or 'who was this Azor Ahai/Last Hero/PtwP?  And what did they do so we can replicate that' etc etc.  What Sam would've given to have the accuracy of a Kindle library of Westerosi history to access at the Citadel. 

If they don't use this angle in season 8 then they have left themselves open for more criticism, Sam should be all over this.  He has after all had nothing else on his mind for the previous few months, searching for information in an attempt to save mankind.  Bran is the Citadel's library and then some.  My prediction however, is they won't use this angle or if they do it will be later in the series when really Sam should be asking right now, episode 1, asap.  We'll have to wait and see. 

                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some thoughts on Bran's growing powers

I don't think the show will be using any of the subtleties we've discussed, such as the raven caws signifying Bran's presence in secret.  It looks like we're just going to get the raven skinchanging [which is still cool] and the visions.  But I can't help feeling they are missing a great opportunity to add subtlety and nuance to these visions, for example just a little bit of wind. 

When young Ned was at the Tower of Joy he turned around thinking he had heard something, Bloodraven explained it was probably just the wind, so they have touched on this in the show once and then seemingly ignored it ever since.

For example, when Bran sees the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage ceremony he was standing next to a tree, why not have the leaves rustle in the breeze?  It would have been consistent with the wind/greenseer visions they had already written about.  It would also add depth to the idea that Bran can see everything without the need to use the eyes of the weirwood trees.  It would have been easy to do without any cgi needed, a wind machine/fan would've worked just fine. 

@ravenous reader added the idea that you could have had Lyanna/Rhaegar look up and notice the sudden gust through the tree.  No one is standing there just as in the scene with Young Ned, then the camera turns and us watchers see Bran.  I find it frustrating that they set this up and then just ignored it, a gust/blowing of the wind in these scenes would have been cheap and if consistent would really enhance the greenseer magic angle.  Oh well.   :angry:     

By the way, I did actually still love that scene, just wish we had Bran's powers in evidence.  :)  

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23 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yep i liked the winds/Ned trning back effect like in the books.

I wih Sam befriends Bran and we get hints that Bran is still there and also I want them to be smthing more than expositiins mahines for ajon.

Hi Meera  :)

This is a potential problem with the 'Bran can see whatever someone asks' angle.  If Jon, Sam and Bran are in the same place then it would be silly not to use that power.  So either Bran feeds Jon loads of useful information and becomes the human Kindle library, or he doesn't and the watcher is left asking, why not?   :dunno:

As you say, as long as he isn't just an exposition machine, meaning Bran recovers some of his humanity in the process or as the season progresses, then feeding Jon useful information would be fine.   Let's hope that's the case, he certainly showed more emotion in that scene with Sam.  :)

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2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi Meera  :)

This is a potential problem with the 'Bran can see whatever someone asks' angle.  If Jon, Sam and Bran are in the same place then it would be silly not to use that power.  So either Bran feeds Jon loads of useful information and becomes the human Kindle library, or he doesn't and the watcher is left asking, why not?   :dunno:

As you say, as long as he isn't just an exposition machine, meaning Bran recovers some of his humanity in the process or as the season progresses, then feeding Jon useful information would be fine.   Let's hope that's the case, he certainly showed more emotion in that scene with Sam.  :)

yep, it's two things actually. Firstly, that I'd like to see some connection between Bran and Sam as they are the leaders in the knowledge department. I am fine if Brans discovers things like if he was an online encyclopedia, and I'd love if apart from that, staying with Sam makes him reconnect a little more with his human part.

As for Jon, I was referring more to being an exposition machine of his origins. It's two seasons in a row with the same, and it's tiresome.

I for one don't like show Jon anymore for reasons but I agree he'll have to show things to Jon, I cancope with it. As long as it also serves more characters, and also HIMSELF, (he should do things for the living on his own merit) it would be ok.

If nothing like this happens, I will be extremely disappointed with the cliche route they'd have taken.

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

yep, it's two things actually. Firstly, that I'd like to see some connection between Bran and Sam as they are the leaders in the knowledge department. I am fine if Brans discovers things like if he was an online encyclopedia, and I'd love if apart from that, staying with Sam makes him reconnect a little more with his human part.

Yeah I'd like that too, I loved the Sam and Bran scene, Sam's reactions were awesome.

2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

As for Jon, I was referring more to being an exposition machine of his origins. It's two seasons in a row with the same, and it's tiresome.

Ah I see, yes I agree that has got a bit tiresome.  They've totally ignored the fact that Howland would know too, even after showing the audience he survived the Tower of Joy scene.  But I suppose Bran knowing and revealing this information is easier for the casual watcher to understand, still it has dragged on a bit.

Let's hope Bran's powers really come into their own next season and we see the Bran we all love making a difference, for the better of course.  :) 

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Just now, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Yeah I'd like that too, I loved the Sam and Bran scene, Sam's reactions were awesome.

Ah I see, yes I agree that has got a bit tiresome.  They've totally ignored the fact that Howland would know too, even after showing the audience he survived the Tower of Joy scene.  But I suppose Bran knowing and revealing this information is easier for the casual watcher to understand, still it has dragged on a bit.

Let's hope Bran's powers really come into their own next season and we see the Bran we all love making a difference, for the better of course.  :) 

yes!!!

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On 8/30/2017 at 7:00 PM, Tijgy said:

A interview from Isaac on last episode and Bran's latter possible role in the series: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/08/29/we-talked-to-isaac-hempstead-wright-and-understand-brans-three-eyed-raven-powers-a-lot-better-now/?utm_term=.2dda0ca3ae90

Most interesting parts are: 

- This idea of Bran’s mind simultaneously existing all over history — never in one place at one time. Whenever he’s sitting anywhere he’s living through so many different timelines. 

That’s the thing, though. Bran doesn’t exactly know everything. It’s a bit ambiguous. It’s like he’s got a Kindle library of everything in his head but he hasn’t read through it all yet. Whereas the other Three-Eyed Raven has sat in a tree for 1,000 years and has been able to look it all up and now knows it all by heart. Bran doesn’t yet, so it’s not like he’s withholding information, it’s just that he doesn’t know where to look yet.

- Anyway, Bran is so dead set on his ultimate destiny, which I think is something to do with those White Walkers, that all this sort of petty squabbling around him isn’t bothering him that much until someone says, “oh, can you look this up?”

I want to talk about what it would be like for Bran to meet up with Jaime Lannister. Do you think he’d forgive Jaime for paralyzing him? - Bran wouldn’t care on that front at all. I think it would be more interesting to see Jaime. The way Bran was able to freak out Littlefinger, I think he could definitely freak the f— out of Jaime. I’d also love to see that because from the first episode, it was obvious that Jaime was morally reprehensible — what a terrible man. And as it’s gone on, it’s like we really aren’t sure if he’s actually a good guy. So I think it would be interesting to see his reaction to the child he tried to murder unsuccessfully and see just how terrifying he’s become. Not that Bran would ever use his powers to kill Jaime or do any harm to him, but I think that would certainly freak Jaime out to think, “oh god, what have I done?” I reckon that would play on his conscience a bit.

- Where would you ideally like to see Bran end up? - Um … alive? Bran must be able to look up something important. He knows how the White Walkers were created. And especially since we’ve now seen how when you slash down a White Walker, some of the zombies die, so maybe if that information could get to Bran there’s something he could look up and understand more. I think Bran’s destiny will be involved somehow with the White Walkers especially since the Night King has an issue with the Three-Eyed Raven. Clearly Bran is in his sights as a target.

Hi Tigs!  Nice interview -- Isaac is so thoughtful and articulate about his character.  The bit about the Jaime reunion interests me particularly.  It reminds me of the following quote, which is one of my favourites:  on the surface it's about Jaime, but dig deeper and you can find Bran.  When Jaime offered Bran his hand in bad faith with the fateful words, 'Take my hand', Jaime bound himself irrevocably to Bran; in fact, I'd say that symbolically, considering that Jaime's hand was then indeed literally taken from him in an act of 'karmic justice', he is Bran's sworn sword(hand)!

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime IX

"You had best go, Cersei. You're making me angry."

"Oh, an angry cripple. How terrifying." She laughed. "A pity Lord Tywin Lannister never had a son. I could have been the heir he wanted, but I lacked the cock. And speaking of such, best tuck yours away, brother. It looks rather sad and small, hanging from your breeches like that."

When she was gone Jaime took her advice, fumbling one-handed at his laces. He felt a bone-deep ache in his phantom fingers. I've lost a hand, a father, a son, a sister, and a lover, and soon enough I will lose a brother. And yet they keep telling me House Lannister won this war.

I'll predict that Bran will forgive Jaime, since GRRM surely believes in redemption -- for both of them:

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the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

"One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

(AGOT - Bran I)

 

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Both Jaime and Cersei are clearly despicable in those moments. Later, though, we see a more humane side of Jaime when he rescues a woman, who had been an enemy, from rape. All of a sudden we don't know what to feel about Jaime. 
One of the things I wanted to explore with Jaime, and with so many of the characters, is the whole issue of redemption. When can we be redeemed? Is redemption even possible? I don't have an answer. But when do we forgive people? You see it all around in our society, in constant debates. Should we forgive Michael Vick? I have friends who are dog-lovers who will never forgive Michael Vick. Michael Vick has served years in prison; he's apologized. Has he apologized sufficiently? Woody Allen: Is Woody Allen someone that we should laud, or someone that we should despise? Or Roman Polanski, Paula Deen. Our society is full of people who have fallen in one way or another, and what do we do with these people? How many good acts make up for a bad act? If you're a Nazi war criminal and then spend the next 40 years doing good deeds and feeding the hungry, does that make up for being a concentration-camp guard? I don't know the answer, but these are questions worth thinking about. I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there is no possibility of redemption, what's the answer then? [Martin pauses for a moment.] You've read the books?

Yes. 
Who kills Joffrey?

That killing happens early in this fourth season. The books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey. 
In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal – the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa's hairnet, so that if anyone did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it.

The reason I bring this up is because that's an interesting question of redemption. That's more like killing Hitler. Does the Queen of Thorns need redemption? Did the Queen of Thorns kill Hitler, or did she murder a 13-year-old boy? Or both? She had good reasons to remove Joffrey. Is it a case where the end justifies the means? I don't know. That's what I want the reader or viewer to wrestle with, and to debate.

From:  Rolling Stone Interview with GRRM

 

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1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Tigs!  Nice interview -- Isaac is so thoughtful and articulate about his character.  The bit about the Jaime reunion interests me particularly.  It reminds me of the following quote, which is one of my favourites:  on the surface it's about Jaime, but dig deeper and you can find Bran.  When Jaime offered Bran his hand in bad faith with the fateful words, 'Take my hand', Jaime bound himself irrevocably to Bran; in fact, I'd say that symbolically, considering that Jaime's hand was then indeed literally taken from him in act of 'karmic justice', he is Bran's sworn sword(hand)!

I'll predict that Bran will forgive Jaime, since GRRM surely believes in redemption -- for both of them:

 

 

It could be, it would really be unexpected if Jaime survived and Bran pardoned him as a Lord, although I'd prefer Jaime to save Bran in some way in order not to get punished or executed.

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50 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I'd prefer Jaime to save Bran in some way in order not to get punished or executed.

Me too.  There would be a pleasing ironic symmetry if Jaime saved Bran!  Jaime thinks a lot about the debt unfulfilled to Rhaegar, particularly the responsibility he bears for what happened to Rhaegar's children.  What he notably fails to consider, however -- and what is just as important -- is the debt Jaime owes Ned Stark, considering Ned put himself and his family at risk for the sake of Jaime's children (when he went to Cersei warning her to secure the safety of the children), in addition of course to the reparation he personally owes Bran for throwing him from the tower.  Instead of doing something reprehensible 'for love' as is his wont, Jaime needs to choose doing something honorable out of a sense of 'duty'; for Bran it is the reverse:  instead of acting out of 'duty' to punish his enemies, he needs to offer Jaime forgiveness out of a sense of compassion and love. 

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57 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Me too.  There would be a pleasing ironic symmetry if Jaime saved Bran!  Jaime thinks a lot about the debt unfulfilled to Rhaegar, particularly the responsibility he bears for what happened to Rhaegar's children.  What he notably fails to consider, however -- and what is just as important -- is the debt Jaime owes Ned Stark, considering Ned put himself and his family at risk for the sake of Jaime's children (when he went to Cersei warning her to secure the safety of the children), in addition of course to the reparation he personally owes Bran for throwing him from the tower.  Instead of doing something reprehensible 'for love' as is his wont, Jaime needs to choose doing something honorable out of a sense of 'duty'; for Bran it is the reverse:  instead of acting out of 'duty' to punish his enemies, he needs to offer Jaime forgiveness out of a sense of compassion and love. 

That would be my ideal ending and it makes a lot of sense actually. Also we know that thr dirst Thing that Bran learns is the Northern justice but he hS almost never been able to completely be himself.

That way bein LOW he would parallel the first xhapter with a mixture of his own decisions fi ally and also the sense of duty. 

Sacrifixing as the unknown "last" hero is another possibility but i thinj the forner makes better literature 

Bein

Becoming a tree makes sense but its too much predictable and its too similar to Frodos fate.

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On 9/3/2017 at 8:14 PM, ravenous reader said:

Me too.  There would be a pleasing ironic symmetry if Jaime saved Bran!  Jaime thinks a lot about the debt unfulfilled to Rhaegar, particularly the responsibility he bears for what happened to Rhaegar's children.  What he notably fails to consider, however -- and what is just as important -- is the debt Jaime owes Ned Stark, considering Ned put himself and his family at risk for the sake of Jaime's children (when he went to Cersei warning her to secure the safety of the children), in addition of course to the reparation he personally owes Bran for throwing him from the tower.  Instead of doing something reprehensible 'for love' as is his wont, Jaime needs to choose doing something honorable out of a sense of 'duty'; for Bran it is the reverse:  instead of acting out of 'duty' to punish his enemies, he needs to offer Jaime forgiveness out of a sense of compassion and love. 

This is a very important point I think. As Jaime evolves and becomes more honorable, does he feel the need to repay his debts to the people he has wronged - A Lannister always pays his debts after all!

On a side note, does Jaime know that Ned warned Cersei so she can save the children?

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  • 2 months later...

An ode to two loveliest darlings of the show :wub::wub: #Protect the direwolves !!!!!  From the Tower of the Hand (https://towerofthehand.com/blog/2017/10/20-summer-and-shaggydog-may-never/index.html)

As Game of Thrones the TV show has caught up to and surpassed the Ice and Fire novels on which it was originally based, we've witnessed a number of characters who have been killed off who still live in the books. In What Is Dead May Never Die, Tower of the Hand profiles some of these would-be dead characters, reviewing their deaths on the show and their current statuses in the books, and speculating whether or not the differences between the two will be reconciled. Today's guest writer MonoBast tries to answer if Summer and Shaggydog may never die.

Those who know me know the seething rage I have at times with Game of Thrones. It's not that I dislike the show (well Seasons 2 through 5 can go in the garbage), it's that I know it could be so much better than mere "entertainment." The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. And I so love A Song of Ice and Fire. If I didn't, I wouldn't get so annoyed with its adaptation. I don't accept the tired old adage of "You can't include everything from the books." Season 1 did a hell of a job accomplishing that. I don't accept many of the show creators' excuses that they have to cut for pacing or they have to "make it work," when they inundate us with "virgin-is-great-at-sex scene #6" and "Jon trekking through the ice with Ygritte" nonsense.

Don't get me started on how much they rushed the show. It's not like HBO wouldn't be happy to give them a blank check or anything. But perhaps what disappoints me most about the show is the treatment of the direwolves. Especially given how much they throw in "Rawr dragons!" and "naked people!" every ten minutes for those who can't sit still through politics and intrigue. While the dragons represent the return of magic in the series, I've always felt the direwolves were the series' literary magic. Those lovable pups are just as much characters as Ned, Brienne, or Stannis. While the dragons may be the series' heart, the direwolves may be its soul. With that over, let's talk about giant doggos!

Two peas in a pod

Summer and Shaggydog were born from the same litter as Grey Wind, Lady, Nymeria, and Ghost. Discovered first by Robb Stark and Jon Snow, and fated for early deaths by Ned's harsh mercy, Bran's gentle heart and Jon's wisdom saved them (my how far those two have come). They are brought back to the castle of Winterfell and are divvied up among the Stark children: Grey Wind to Robb, Lady to Sansa, Nymeria to Arya, Summer to Bran, Shaggydog to Rickon, and Ghost to Jon. Soon after, Jon Arryn dies, the king offers Ned the most important job in King's Landing, and the pups go their separate ways, except for Shaggydog because Rickon is too young to travel. Oh right, Summer stayed behind because Bran got pushed out a window.

Bran remained in a coma for an unclear amount of time, yet Summer remained ever faithful to his master; he would spend every moment he could howling beneath the boy's window. It was even said that closing the window would weaken the boy's heart and opening it would strengthen him, an early clue to the bond between the direwolves and the Stark children. When a man attempted to silence Bran forever, Summer sneaked in as he wrestled with Catelyn and gently ripped the cutthroat's throat out, earning the wolf Catelyn's gratitude and a permanent residence at the boy's bedside.

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He was silver and smoke, with eyes of yellow gold that saw all there was to see. Smaller than Grey Wind, and more wary. Bran thought he was the smartest of the litter.

 

 

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Shaggydog had come slavering out of the darkness like a green-eyed demon. The wolf was near as wild as Rickon.


 

By this time, it became clear to readers that the direwolves shared more than just a bond with their masters, they shared their personalities and character arcs too. Lady was killed in her innocence, as Sansa's innocence was taken from her. Nymeria was forced away from her siblings and Arya, as Arya was forced away from her family and her own identity. Grey Wind became fierce and battle hardened like Robb. Ghost was silent and observant like Jon Snow. Summer was thought by Bran to be the smartest of the litter, perhaps foreshadowing Bran's future role with the Three-Eyed Crow (or Three-Eyed Raven in the show). When most of his family left him, Rickon would lash out and act wild, as would Shaggydog. Rickon even had a dream of his father dying, while he was hiding in the Winterfell crypts with his wolf.

Senseless Killings

Fast forward a bit, Theon took over Winterfell, two wolves and two children hid with two other children, a giant simpleton, and a wildling woman in the crypts of Winterfell. Theon then lost Winterfell to Ramsay Snow, Maester Luwin died, but gave a last bit of wisdom to split the kids up (except in the show because wisdom is in short supply there). Bran and Summer went with Hodor, Jojen and Meera to journey beyond the Wall to the Three-Eyed Crow (Raven). In the show, Osha, Rickon and Shaggydog tagged along for a bit but then split off to parts unknown. Fast forward further to Season 6 (or fifth book, A Dance with Dragons). Bran was learning under the Three-Eyed Raven (Crow!) and made the brilliant decision to warg without the TER(C!)'s knowledge and saw a vision of White Walkers and wights. The Night King said hello in the vision and gave him a magic BRANd and discovered the location of the group and how to safely enter the cave. The White Walkers and their armies swarmed the cave and the children of the forest (singular in the show), Summer, and Hodor valiantly held them off while Bran and Meera escaped. Many a tear was shed for Hodor, while Summer felt like an afterthought as he disappeared into a wall of bones and stabby objects.

Later, as Jon marshaled troops to take Winterfell, Smalljon Umber proposed an alliance with Ramsay Bolton. (Let's tangent on Smalljon for a second, because in show canon he's a douchebag who didn't die at the Red Wedding defending Robb. Seriously, he flipped a table to protect Robb and died after bashing a Frey's face in with a leg of mutton. End tangent.) So anyway, to seal the deal Smalljon (douchebag) Umber presented the head of Shaggydog. I'm sure many book readers know of the Grand Northern Conspiracy, so I assumed it was a fake wolf, but nope, he also presented Rickon and Osha. Again, the wolf is an afterthought.

Shaggydog Tales

 

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"Roose Bolton has Lord Eddard's daughter. To thwart him White Harbor must have Ned's son... and the direwolf. The wolf will prove the boy is who we say he is, should the Dreadfort attempt to deny him. That is my price, Lord Davos. Smuggle me back my liege lord, and I will take Stannis Baratheon as my king."


 

In the novels, Summer and Shaggydog are very much alive. Summer leads a pack of wolves in the north, much as his sister Nymeria is rumored to have done in the Riverlands. He still guards Bran and Bran still wargs him when he wants to leave the cave. While we haven't seen Rickon or Shaggydog, we've heard of them from other characters. In a vision while he was warging Ghost, Jon sees Shaggydog slaying a unicorn (oh yeah, the other Stark kids can warg too, but "pacing"). Wyman Manderly discovers from Theon's squire, Wex Pyke, that Rickon, Shaggydog, and Osha are on Skagos, an island in the north that has unicorns and cannibalism (y'all show folks missed out on unicorns!). Manderly charges Ser Davos to find his liege lord. In return he will pledge fealty to Stannis Baratheon. What is to become of our faithful companions?

There is a story in the north of the Last Hero. The Last Hero set out with twelve companions, a horse, and a dog to find the children of the forest. One by one his companions, his horse and his dog finally fell, leaving him all alone to fend off the white walkers. One theory posits that Bran has met exactly twelve companions on his way to the Three-Eyed Crow and that all of them will die. Summer represents the dog and will die along with them. George R. R. Martin has a habit of aligning myth and history with current events but I'm not so sure this will be the fate of Bran and his direwolf. I believe that Summer starting a pack will have some relevance in the story. If Bran is learning to warg and control animals perhaps this pack can become a small fighting force for him to use, with Summer at its head. Summer could die while fighting the white walkers, but I think in an open battle rather than a cave, and hopefully while fighting alongside his remaining siblings. He is Summer after all. I feel like he could be a rallying force to fight against the cold in the last novel.

Shaggydog may have a more interesting fate. A "shaggydog tale" is a long-winded, very detailed story that ends anticlimactically. Some think that Shaggydog's name hints at this being his fate and Rickon's, but I'm not so certain of this. George R. R. Martin upends a lot of tropes in his novels. If you look at Shaggydog's and Rickon's story arc, they're not long-winded at all. They've been footnotes this whole time, while everyone else gets the attention. Kind of like how Rickon felt when everyone abandoned him; it's why he lashes out and why Shaggydog adopts his savagery. What if they come back from Skagos as unicorn slaying, wildling-trained, cannibalistic badasses, like the Kings in the North of old (minus the cannibalism)? If Martin started Shaggydog's character arc in a non-shaggydog way, why end it as such?

 

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Summer's howls were long and sad, full of grief and longing. Shaggydog's were more savage. Their voices echoed through the yards and halls until the castle rang and it seemed as though some great pack of direwolves haunted Winterfell, instead of only two... two where there had once been six. Do they miss their brothers and sisters too? Bran wondered. Are they calling to Grey Wind and Ghost, to Nymeria and Lady's Shade? Do they want them to come home and be a pack together?


 

As a book reader I loathe how the direwolves are treated on the show. They show up when they're plot points and disappear when they're not. These are the faithful companions of the Stark children! Hell, even Ghost is invisible, even in instances where he'd make a difference to Jon Snow's story. At this point, it seems like Ghost is more Sam's direwolf than Jon's. Add to that the apparent culling that happened this season and last, I feel like the show writers really didn't know what to do with the direwolves, much less many of the characters who needlessly died in Seasons 5 and 6 (maybe they just suck at killing characters). Of course, the dragons get all the attention because dragons are flashy and shoot fire but the direwolves felt not just like props or set pieces to the world but characters themselves. Perhaps Nymeria and Ghost will get justice in the final season on the show, but here's to hoping for a more interesting conclusion to Summer and Shaggydog within the pages of the final two books.

The show really treated those two animals really awful which I think is very sad. Especially Summer is very important to Bran's story!

 
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  • 5 weeks later...

news for season 8 involving Bran and Sam in the knowledge department:

"What I think links those two characters is that they're both characters who are in possession of abilities and skills that nobody else has," Bradley told TV Guide. "Between them, they're such a formidable team because, okay, they can't fight between them, they don't have much physical power between them, but both of their set of skills are so unique. Sam's penchant for absorbing knowledge and absorbing academia and his wish to apply that for the greater good combined with Bran's visions and supernatural skills means that between the two of them, it is a real recipe for success."

John Bradley agrees, teasing that Bran and Sam will definitely continue to make major moves in Season 8. "Don't write them off as a partnership because between them, they can use their own and each others' skills to really shake the place up a bit as we go forward."

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-of-thrones-season-8-sam-bran/

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@Wizz-The-Smith @Tijgy and others:

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/12/12/is-bran-the-night-king-isaac-hempstead-wright-weighs-in/

The basic theory posits that Bran got stuck in the body of the man who would become the Night King when going back in time one too many times. Quoth the original Three-Eyed Raven: “It is beautiful beneath the sea, but if you stay too long, you’ll drown.”

Bonkers, right? Pretty much, but the theory is popular enough to inspire a lot of discussion among fans. Nerdist even asked star Isaac Hempstead Wright about it yesterday. Wright, opining that the theory seems overcomplicated and “fanciful,” basically shoot it down.It just doesn’t feel like Game of Thrones,” he said. “It feels a little bit too Hollywood.”

However, Hempstead Wright is better disposed to a similar, less complicated theory: that the Bran we saw in season 7 is actually the old Three-Eyed Raven, the one played by Max von Sydow in season 6, taking possession of Bran’s body. “It seems a little bit more plausible [than the Night King theory] and it doesn’t have so many insane ramifications for the story line” he said. “That would be quite a neat little thing that would sum up that whole circular arc.”

We’ve already see Bran mess with time and create one paradox, so it would be quite nice to give his entire story a paradox. That would justify how he can meddle with time, because he exists in a closed loop, a sort of non-linear existence.

That does seem a bit more plausible than Bran being the Night King. It’s also not the first time Hempstead Wright has brought up the theory. Hempstead Wright has thought the theory through as well, and considers the time-traveling incident that created Hodor’s damaged mind to be a precedent.

 

It's scary since that would mean that Bran is dead? Or maybe that both 3eyed and Bran live in his body (and thus why is he behaving oddly). If 3eyed finally dies as old age, Bran would recover :P

 

And this:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-sophie-turner-previews-final-season-1066499?utm_source=twitter

There will be some people who are disappointed, I'm sure, because they will want certain people to end up in certain places

Just imagine she was referring to Sansa (as LOW, which is something many people might think of her character)......maybe we are less ones imagining Bran as LOW/KITN/WOTN

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9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's scary since that would mean that Bran is dead? Or maybe that both 3eyed and Bran live in his body (and thus why is he behaving oddly). If 3eyed finally dies as old age, Bran would recover :P

Welp, I’d be sceptical of any theory IHW is willing to just hand over on a plate, seems more like him saying, “Theory A is far-fetched, would this Theory B be a simpler idea.” The “Bran-Bodysnatcher” theory is originally a book theory so it’s probable he has heard of it. Revealing that since leaving the cave it was 3ER/“Bloodraven(?) in Bran’s body would be a bit of a character twist. It also still wouldn’t explain the plot-hole of why Bran was perfectly fine in S6 finale being all “I’m 3ER now, Meera! I totally got this!” and went full robot from S7 onwards, freaking people out wherever he goes. :huh:

But to respond to your point, surely 3ER is second life-ing Bran. In which case, if it is like the books, then their consciousness blends over time. So, there really is no reverting back for Bran because 3ER “became Bran”. The only way Bran is coming back in any real sense is if his personality wins the fight for dominance or he is able to pick himself apart from the 3ER.

As for Sansa, there are plenty of people who wanted to see her become Queen of T7K, so remaining in Winterfell might be disappointing for some people.

That said, it would be interesting for Bran to reassert himself to become the dominant personality between him and 3ER, allowing him to become Lord of Winterfell. He’s said he’s not LoW or Lord Stark enough times that it’s enough to make you think, “He’s gonna be Lord Stark of Winterfell, isn’t he?” 

Personally, I always thought Bran’s life would parallel Bloodraven’s in the books — but in reverse. Crackpot, I know, but it’d be fun. So, he gets his tree knowledge and then re-enters society to become spy master of someone’s Small Council...

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  • 11 months later...
17 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Interesting. I'm even hearing rumors that Bran Stark may even be king in the end. 

And Sophie called the Stark trio the perfect unit.

If that happens I don't know how my body would react to that.

8 hours ago, Tijgy said:

What did he say? Because it is unavailable (for me at least)

He was summarising, I actually didn't hear the whole thing because of lack of time. and now I wanted to finish it and it's also unavailable for me out of a sudden as well! :(

 

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