Theory on Jon's ressurrection

[Whomping.Willow]

Now everyone is counting on Melissandre to resurrect Jon and at the current moment its most obvious option before us. She will have a part in his resurrection but but somehow I think things will be not that straightforward and easy. Although the entire second trailer was magnificently done there were two scenes which stand out for me - the white walker scene just right after Davos finishes his speech of dead are coming. There was a clip of someone swinging fireball at someone and then white walkers crossing fire. Now after the massacre of hardhome I doubt any one would from night watch or wildlings who came this side would go beyond the wall without any reason. And I doubt show would show any random white walker action sequence with some random wildlings who may still be alive north of wall. Even bloodraven's place is warded by some magic. And although there was one shot of Meera looking at something I doubt a whole action action piece of white walkers is needed for just 2-3 characters of which two are combined to trees. So question remains what was that scene of white walkers about? And where are they attacking and whats with all the fire all around? Second question which is in my mind is its never showed in the show or for the fact in books too that whether Davos believes white walkers attack and wight attacks beyond the wall. At least he definitely doesn't believe with that strong assurance with which it was shown in the trailer. He is definitely not the one to believe things by looking in Melissandre's flame. Plus in the first trailer it was shown even melissandre faith is shaken in R'hallor. So what happened to make him believe that real threats are white walkers and rising dead? 

My guess - white walkers attack will happen next during Jon snow's funeral and that may happen beyond wall. And that's where Jon will be resurrected. And no he wont be a wight. First of all the scene in the trailer where Thorne and his cronies are going to try to get Jon's body and Davos and other night watchmen trying to stop them is not a scene where Thorne is trying to stop his resurrection. Its simply about getting his body. I belief in show Ramsay does sent a letter to wall but its received by Allister thorne and in the letter he demanded Night watch to kill Jon because he is the only one to whom Sansa can run too. He may have warned them of killing everyone at wall and other grave consequence and that's what may have prompted them to kill Jon. And now Thorne and other may be just trying to get his head or something as proof to Ramsay that they did as he asked. Any way point is funeral of Jon will happen and most likely it will happen beyond the wall beneath weirwood trees where they take oath. And that's where white walkers will attack. And that's where Davos will understand who the real threat is. Second point is I believe Melissandre will be there too for the funeral and will play significant role in Jon's resurrection but it will be not just the fire magic which will resurrect him but also the ice magic of white walkers.

If R+L = J is true which is basically almost confirmed now with TOJ flashback happening - Jon has always represented balance between fire and ice. He is as per me is song of ice and fire. He do not represent just one element. So his resurrection happening just with fire or just ice does not make sense. For him to be the song of ice and fire in his resurrection both element should play pivotal role. Thus his resurrection will need to happen in such a way that magic from both aspects would combine to bring him back. And one more thing his resurrection should not be a planned resurrection - it would happen spontaneously thus making it truly magical event. I believe in his funeral pyre melissandre will have vision again and this time around she will sacrifice herself bringing R'hallor magic and whitewalker's mojo will be done at same time - thus ending in a weird combination of magic which will end in Jon rising again. So far in both trailers we haven't seen Melissandre in any scene apart from wall unlike Davos. So I think she won't survive beyond episode 2 or 3 of this season.  

So what do you guys think about this? Is there possibility of this happening or I am just overthinking it and Melissandre alone would resurrect Jon ?

[kissdbyfire]

Jon's assassination and Sansa's escape happened almost simultaneously, so Thorne couldn't have received a letter from Ramsay demanding that Jon be killed or else. 

[Whomping.Willow]

45 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Jon's assassination and Sansa's escape happened almost simultaneously, so Thorne couldn't have received a letter from Ramsay demanding that Jon be killed or else. 

Well if melissandre ran away from Stannis camp same day and she arrived before Jon's assassination. And Sansa escaped the same day. So its fare to say Jon's assassination happened later not simultaneously.  

[kissdbyfire]

Later, yes, but I imo not enough for Thorne to receive a letter, plan everything including coming up with the Benjen Bait and craft a cross (or whatever that was) with "traitor" painted on it. But you're right, this is GoT after all.

[robasp2]

I like your logic dude.

I hoped D&D use these kind of thouts when preparing scripts.

YES, I too doubt her death. Stannis was her hope. She will feel guilty and sacrifice herself.

[239JMFL34109]

I always felt like that she could fail at it doing it thoros's way without some help from bran or jon briefly living in ghost. 

Would not be surprised if she tries and it doesn't work the first time. 

[BalerionTheCat]

I feel you're right when you say it needs both Ice and Fire magic. But I don't know how the show will do that. I would dislike the Thoros way.

In books, Old Nan said:

The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night’s Watch stay true.

And some places, like Bloodraven cavern and the Wall are protected by magic. Sam had to pass such barrier:

"I am the sword in the darkness," Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."
"Then pass," the door said.

By killing Jon, the NW failed. And possibly the magic protecting the Wall has been released. I would like if this Ice magic went to Jon, to resurrect him.

[Juan Carlo]

I don't see Melisandre being responsible for Jon's resurrection.  Thus far, the series has shown her to be completely out of her league.  She would love to have the power to do miracles in R'ahlor's name, but hasn't done much despite leaving a trail of dead bodies in her wake.  More to the point, though, she's directly responsible for one of the most horrendous acts on the show thus far: burning Stannis' daughter at the stake.  If she just easily resurrects Jon after that, that would end up validating her world view.  As dark as this show can be, I don't see that happening.

Either (1) John's resurrection will come from R'ahlor via some other means (i.e. not with Melissandra as the conduit), (2) it will come either via the White Walkers or the old gods, or (3) it will come via Melissandra but only at the cost of shattering her world view in some way (i.e. perhaps inadvertently).  I could see your theory about Melissandra sacrificing fitting into number 3, but I'm not sure that Melissandra would sacrifice herself.  Her approach to religion is pretty vain and personally motivated (i.e. she always uses it to get power in some way).  I don't think she'd sacrifice herself to save a beloved character, although I could see her inadvertently resurrecting Jon in some way.

As to Jon's resurrection involving the unification of Ice and Fire, I think Jon will ultimately unify those forces in some way, but I don't see it happening already in his resurrection (what would the series have left to do after that?).  My hunch is Jon will be resurrected by forces aligned with ice and the ultimate clash/unification of ice/fire will involve Jon (ice) and Dany (fire) or the white walkers and the dragons.

A 4th possibility I'm not sure if anyone has considered: Jon might be resurrected but the exact circumstances of it will remain a mystery until a later time or be left open to interpretation.  Resurrection is already really mysterious in these books and its exact circumstances are shrouded in mysticism.  Thoros is able to resurrect people, but has no idea how he does it.  So I think it's perfectly possible that Jon might be resurrected without a clear explanation being immediately given.  If Jon's resurrection does in some way involve a unification of ice/fire, I doubt the books or show will spell that out immediately.

Resurrection in fantasy universes is always difficult mine field to navigate.  I think GRRM has handled it really well thus far, but it necessitates treading a very delicate line.  Provide too little explanation and it becomes a cheap plot gimmick.  However, provide too much explanation and it turns very profound and mysterious forces into silly magic tricks.  You need to find the right balance of mysticism and logic for everything to not collapse.

[~DarkHorse~]

Ramsay did mention Jon as a threat in Season 4 when Roose sent Locke to hunt down Bran. Therefore, I don't think it is too far fetched to assume that the Boltons had spies/connections with the Night's Watch. When Jon was at Hardhome, Thorne obviously plotted the assassination, so he could have been in contact with the Boltons to gain support against the Wildlings/permission to off the Lord Commander. I don't think the show will include this, but it would have set up Bastard Bowl nicely and gave the mutineers some credibility. 

As for Melisandre resurrecting Jon, they had her meet Thoros in season 3 for a reason. I think she will at least attempt it to regain her faith. But I would bot be surprised if she fails, and Jon gets resurrected on the pyre, given him a more flashy resurrection. Being kissed back to life is a little anti-climatic, given all the hype and lack of warging. I'm certain Melisandre will be involved, either way. 

[Whomping.Willow]

3 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I feel you're right when you say it needs both Ice and Fire magic. But I don't know how the show will do that. I would dislike the Thoros way.

In books, Old Nan said:

The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night’s Watch stay true.

And some places, like Bloodraven cavern and the Wall are protected by magic. Sam had to pass such barrier:

"I am the sword in the darkness," Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."
"Then pass," the door said.

By killing Jon, the NW failed. And possibly the magic protecting the Wall has been released. I would like if this Ice magic went to Jon, to resurrect him.

Hmmm may be. Ice magic can happen through either white walkers or old Gods through Bran and Bloodraven or the wall. And I would be happy with either of them as long as ice and fire balance is maintained. 

[Whomping.Willow]

3 hours ago, Juan Carlo said:

I don't see Melisandre being responsible for Jon's resurrection.  Thus far, the series has shown her to be completely out of her league.  She would love to have the power to do miracles in R'ahlor's name, but hasn't done much despite leaving a trail of dead bodies in her wake.  More to the point, though, she's directly responsible for one of the most horrendous acts on the show thus far: burning Stannis' daughter at the stake.  If she just easily resurrects Jon after that, that would end up validating her world view.  As dark as this show can be, I don't see that happening.

Either (1) John's resurrection will come from R'ahlor via some other means (i.e. not with Melissandra as the conduit), (2) it will come either via the White Walkers or the old gods, or (3) it will come via Melissandra but only at the cost of shattering her world view in some way (i.e. perhaps inadvertently).  I could see your theory about Melissandra sacrificing fitting into number 3, but I'm not sure that Melissandra would sacrifice herself.  Her approach to religion is pretty vain and personally motivated (i.e. she always uses it to get power in some way).  I don't think she'd sacrifice herself to save a beloved character, although I could see her inadvertently resurrecting Jon in some way.

As to Jon's resurrection involving the unification of Ice and Fire, I think Jon will ultimately unify those forces in some way, but I don't see it happening already in his resurrection (what would the series have left to do after that?).  My hunch is Jon will be resurrected by forces aligned with ice and the ultimate clash/unification of ice/fire will involve Jon (ice) and Dany (fire) or the white walkers and the dragons.

A 4th possibility I'm not sure if anyone has considered: Jon might be resurrected but the exact circumstances of it will remain a mystery until a later time or be left open to interpretation.  Resurrection is already really mysterious in these books and its exact circumstances are shrouded in mysticism.  Thoros is able to resurrect people, but has no idea how he does it.  So I think it's perfectly possible that Jon might be resurrected without a clear explanation being immediately given.  If Jon's resurrection does in some way involve a unification of ice/fire, I doubt the books or show will spell that out immediately.

Resurrection in fantasy universes is always difficult mine field to navigate.  I think GRRM has handled it really well thus far, but it necessitates treading a very delicate line.  Provide too little explanation and it becomes a cheap plot gimmick.  However, provide too much explanation and it turns very profound and mysterious forces into silly magic tricks.  You need to find the right balance of mysticism and logic for everything to not collapse.

Jon's life symbolizes unification of ice and fire from the very moment he was born so I dont think he represents just ice in the upcoming clash of ice and fire. Those are white walkers and dragons. But I guess we have to wait and watch. Concerning Melisandre - I agree her whole world view regarding her approach need to be shattered. And Stannis's defeat and death has to hit her hard as soon in trailer. And thats why I believe she wont be resurrecting Jon just like that as everyone is thinking - it will happen in an unintentional unplanned manner.  Although I could totally see point four happening. Jon will be resurrected but no one will know how. That would be interesting. 

[Lord Friendzone]

I like they way you think with the balance. If Jon is truly RL son...it might feel poetic for him to need both elements to bring him back. Ice and Fire. Kiss or plain praying ala Thoros seems a bit anti-climatic since all they hype and stuff going. On top of that it's only Fire element. If it was Daeny i wouldn't say a word but Jon's heritage has always been such a big deal. It needs to be big, different and worthy of the main character alongside Dany and Tyrion.