The Expanse #2: Caliban's Thread - [spoilers for book only up to latest tv show episode]

[Astromech]

10 hours ago, Happy Ent said:

Prax is a great POV in book 2. He has a completely different perspective than the “space natives” of the Roci, constantly noticing things on behalf of the reader. Long internal monologues about the fragility of the ecosystem on Ganymede. Musings about the thrusters on Tycho Station’s waldos that compensate for their movement (which would otherwise move the Station around!). His POV, more than the others, adds a lot of atmosphere to the absurdity of living in space – the constant peril everything is in, the interdependencies of various complex systems. He’s a docile Darwinian surrounded by naive engineers and mindless murderers. 

You seem to enjoy the hard science of The Expanse. If you haven't already watched it, I would recommend The National Geographic Society's 6-part Mars series from a few months ago. http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/mars/

[SpaceChampion]

Introducing Basia...

 

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

It looks like they're swapping some of Prax and Basia's storylines.

[Wethers]

On 3/25/2017 at 7:03 PM, SpaceChampion said:

Introducing Basia...

 

Yep they just introduced Basia Merton.  But I think there may also be a chance that they just introduced Lucia Merton too at the beginning of the clip.

If that's indeed her, Lucia is not far from how I pictured her.  However, TV Basia is much skinnier and less physically imposing than book Basia, who is a fairly big, blue-collar guy (welder).  Hell, in the TV series, even Prax looks more built than him!  I had pictured Basia as a more ethnically mixed and only somewhat smaller version of Amos.  Basia has a different personality than Amos of course, though still one prone to occasional violence, but not emotionless violence like Amos is.

In the books, Prax and Basia also fight, both half-crazed about their missing children Mei and Katoa respectively, but Prax swings first and then Basia proceeds to pummel Prax almost to death until Basia's daughter Felcia (Katoa's older sister) intervenes to get between her dad and Prax.

[DaveSumm]

Completely agree that Amos and Alex are both awesome, and that Holden is a bit bland (every facial expression he attempts to pull seems to come out as "confused and stoned").....but I'm obviously alone when it comes to Avasarala. I thought "wherever I goddamn what" was the worst delivered line in the show so far, and myself and the two others watching burst out laughing at how ridiculous it sounded. It sounds like English is her second language and I just don't believe anything she says as real, especially when she swears. I'm constantly aware that I'm watching an actress. She has the gravitas to play the role, but her delivery just grates on me. I guess you could argue that a lot of the time she sort of is acting, putting up a front because she needs to etc. But the quieter, private moments don't stand out enough for me to put it down to this entirely.

I'm looking forward to moving past the points I've read to, as I keep comparing the show to the books. It seemed odd that they took half an action sequence from Bobbi's POV but then didn't show the battle (obviously that's coming from the suit) and half of one from Prax's, I'd rather see the whole thing from Prax and then if you're gonna cut Bobbi's half, go the whole hog. Prax's intro wasn't that effective for me, as they'd already used the falling satellites beforehand, so you were left with a disjointed account.

[RedEyedGhost]

Just now, DaveSumm said:

but I'm obviously alone when it comes to Avasarala. I thought "wherever I goddamn what" was the worst delivered line in the show so far, and myself and the two others watching burst out laughing at how ridiculous it sounded

I thought it was pretty bad too.  It didn't feel organic.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Had she said "wherever I goddamn what" that would've been odd. I think she's pitch perfect. She's probably my favorite ancillary character in the books and I this actress did not disappoint at all. 

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Had she said "wherever I goddamn what" that would've been odd. I think she's pitch perfect. She's probably my favorite ancillary character in the books and I this actress did not disappoint at all. 

Um....OK, she said "wherever I God damn like". Point remains the same.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

10 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Um....OK, she said "wherever I God damn like". Point remains the same.

Mine too. 

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I was originally bothered a bit by her cadence, but I guess I'm ok  with it after realizing that for the character, and probably the actress, English isn't her first language.

i like where they're going with the conspiracy. It diverges from the books, but keeps the same general theme.

Did anyone else notice the parallel between Errinwright saying that he 'would have' stopped the zeros experiment had he known, and Hilden saying he 'would have' stopped Amos before he went too far?

[Wethers]

Great point on the "would have stopped" parallel.  Never would have thought to see a parallel between Holden and Errinwright.  Both seem to be different characters in the show than in the books.

I liked the scene when Bobbie makes it to the ocean - how they shoot it to look different in her eyes than later in Avasarala/Cotyar's eyes.

I will say that I no longer see how they finish up all of Caliban's War in season 2.  I am trying to think what the ending point for season 2 will be.  Maybe the story itself is changing (it already has in major ways - e.g. the aforementioned Errinwright's confession to Avasarala in the episode today...).

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Without reading any of the spoilers for the second season (which doesn't seem to be on Netflix UK? ). Just wanna say I have come to love the show by the last couple of episodes in S1. It was certainly a slow burn and a bit of a struggle to get there, wasn't sure I'd get past the first few episodes which seemed quite low budget and full of 100 sci fi cliches. But it really came into its own by the end and shows its more literary roots. 

[Kalbear]

9 hours ago, Wethers said:

 

I will say that I no longer see how they finish up all of Caliban's War in season 2.  I am trying to think what the ending point for season 2 will be.  Maybe the story itself is changing (it already has in major ways - e.g. the aforementioned Errinwright's confession to Avasarala in the episode today...).

They've got what, 3 eps left? Here's my theory:

Spoiler

Show ends trying to catch Strickland and failing and encountering another Caliban on the Roci. Ep 12 is probably the big gunfight and escape from Ganymede. That's that plot thread.

Season ends on the Arboghast getting disassembled. That's the venus subthread.

Bobbie/Avasarala are probably going to have to leave earth by the end of the season, ostensibly to catch up at Ganymede. Possibly to pursue Mao, who is heading to Io. 

That's assuming that it sticks with the books, which so far it hasn't entirely done so. More major deviations could result. But yeah, I don't see how the end of Caliban's war happens right now, not even close - we're very far away from it in basically every front. 

[Kalbear]

Hmm. On second thought, looking at the titles of the next eps:

Spoiler

Ep 11's "here there be dragons" obviously refers to the place on Ganymede that no one knows where it is, so the gunfight and strickland chase probably happens next ep, with the rescue as well. Ep 12 is called "The Monster and the Rocket", so chances are good a lot of it is dealing with the Caliban on the ship. 

Ep 13 is called Caliban's war, and might end with Mao et al launching the Calibans at Earth or Mars. 

 

[Corvinus85]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Hmm. On second thought, looking at the titles of the next eps:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ep 11's "here there be dragons" obviously refers to the place on Ganymede that no one knows where it is, so the gunfight and strickland chase probably happens next ep, with the rescue as well. Ep 12 is called "The Monster and the Rocket", so chances are good a lot of it is dealing with the Caliban on the ship. 

Ep 13 is called Caliban's war, and might end with Mao et al launching the Calibans at Earth or Mars. 

 

I really think they're going to end this season as the book ends

Spoiler

Miller appearing to Holden. But I think they would have worked that scene somewhere earlier in the plot of Caliban's War than the book, so some of the book may spill into season 3. Though I think almost all of season 3 will be Abbadon's Gate.

 

[Corvinus85]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Hmm. On second thought, looking at the titles of the next eps:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ep 11's "here there be dragons" obviously refers to the place on Ganymede that no one knows where it is, so the gunfight and strickland chase probably happens next ep, with the rescue as well. Ep 12 is called "The Monster and the Rocket", so chances are good a lot of it is dealing with the Caliban on the ship. 

Ep 13 is called Caliban's war, and might end with Mao et al launching the Calibans at Earth or Mars. 

 

I really think they're going to end this season as the book ends

Spoiler

Miller appearing to Holden. But I think they would have worked that scene somewhere earlier in the plot of Caliban's War than the book, so some of the book may spill into season 3. Though I think almost all of season 3 will be Abbadon's Gate.

 

[Kalbear]

9 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I really think they're going to end this season as the book ends

  Reveal hidden contents

Miller appearing to Holden. But I think they would have worked that scene somewhere earlier in the plot of Caliban's War than the book, so some of the book may spill into season 3. Though I think almost all of season 3 will be Abbadon's Gate.

 

I can imagine that, though I don't think it'll be the full story of Caliban's war. Specifically:

Spoiler

I can't imagine that they'll get to the naval battle, Bobbie fighting another Caliban, Mao being disgraced, the Belt shooting down the Caliban missiles, the Arboghast being disassembled and the Gate being created all in the next three eps, especially with the titles that the show currently has. 

But Miller coming back would be interesting.

 

[red snow]

15 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Without reading any of the spoilers for the second season (which doesn't seem to be on Netflix UK? ). Just wanna say I have come to love the show by the last couple of episodes in S1. It was certainly a slow burn and a bit of a struggle to get there, wasn't sure I'd get past the first few episodes which seemed quite low budget and full of 100 sci fi cliches. But it really came into its own by the end and shows its more literary roots. 

I think we get it as soon as it finishes airing stateside so hopefully in 3-4 weeks. I don't mind the spoilers because of the books - it's good to know it's good though.

[GrimTuesday]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the rather delightful scene with Alex on the Roci getting his drink on, trying to get to the consul to listen to the message about the station basically being a no fly zone. I just found that scene enjoyable, well, apart from him doing a couple rolls to get to the second set of steps, that bit made my stomach slightly unsettled though it did remind me of a time I was drunk at the top of a snowy hill and rather than slip and slid all the way down, I opted to just throw myself down it.

[Martini Sigil]

1 hour ago, GrimTuesday said:

I'm surprised no one mentioned the rather delightful scene with Alex on the Roci getting his drink on, trying to get to the consul to listen to the message about the station basically being a no fly zone. I just found that scene enjoyable, well, apart from him doing a couple rolls to get to the second set of steps, that bit made my stomach slightly unsettled though it did remind me of a time I was drunk at the top of a snowy hill and rather than slip and slid all the way down, I opted to just throw myself down it.

Right?.... I think that is what any of us would do alone in space, just killing time....lol... Blaring tunes and getting tuned....

Question..... what is JP Mao trying to accomplish?... what does he get from starting a war between earth and mars?.... I get that he's the villain behind the scenes, but to what end?