The Expanse #2: Caliban's Thread - [spoilers for book only up to latest tv show episode]

[Pliskin]

5 hours ago, Risto said:

The last two episodes were a bit slow, but this one provided much needed climax to the storylines that have been building up so far, but also preparing for the finale. I loved Bobbi's deflection scene. It reminded me of that old movie "The Saint" when Elizabeth Shue is running towards the US embassy in Moscow and is chased by Russian mobsters. One has to enjoy how several meters make all the difference.

What I found funny is that two shows did it independently the same year. The Man in the High Castle had the exact same scene this season.

[Mladen]

5 hours ago, Triskan said:

That's a good call.  And I don't want to harp on Straight too much.  I don't think he's ruining the show or anything, but everyone else is so strong that he stands out to me a bit more as the weak link.  

The thing is that this type of hero can be done right. Daredevil did a nice job in casting a main guy. so did Outlander. So, that eye candy/man hero brooding type can be done in the right way. And as you said, he stands out because everyone is so good. Harington always have others to cover for him, most notably Turner and Clarke, plus he has moments of true glory. Holden might get that in the next couple of episodes, but I just doubt that.

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

What I found funny is that two shows did it independently the same year. The Man in the High Castle had the exact same scene this season.

I don't watch TMitHC (although it is on a growing to-watch list) but it was so funny to see the Martians being stopped by some invisible line. I suppose for Bobbie it was like crossing the Rubicon.

Also, is this scene also in the books? I am looking forward to reading it, but some wiki snippets I got from the second book don't indicate it.

[Pliskin]

Spoiler

No, it isn't. I don't remember Bobbie defecting in the books. IIRC, she's left as liaison or something to Avasarala.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

9 hours ago, Pliskin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

No, it isn't. I don't remember Bobbie defecting in the books. IIRC, she's left as liaison or something to Avasarala.

 

Spoiler

It was a bit of both in the book. She does accept the job with Avasarala after overstepping her bounds at the first diplomatic meeting between Mars and Earth. Then, once the shooting war between Mars and Earth recommences, Avasarala talks her out of reconnecting with her superiors on Mars in an attempt to take up her old position as a Gunnery Sergeant. There was no real defection as such, it was just a decision she made to see things through with Avasarala's mission.

 

[boojam]

On 4/9/2017 at 1:10 PM, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It was a bit of both in the book. She does accept the job with Avasarala after overstepping her bounds at the first diplomatic meeting between Mars and Earth. Then, once the shooting war between Mars and Earth recommences, Avasarala talks her out of reconnecting with her superiors on Mars in an attempt to take up her old position as a Gunnery Sergeant. There was no real defection as such, it was just a decision she made to see things through with Avasarala's mission.

 

Spoiler

I like that she becomes a crew member of the  Rocinante , that ship still seems under crewed.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, boojam said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I like that she becomes a crew member of the  Rocinante , that ship still seems under crewed.

 

Yeah, she along with Avasarala are 2 of my favorite secondary characters. She seems to be a natural addition to the Rocinante family.

[Relic]

Hmmmm,  hate to say it but it feels like this show really fell off after Miller departed. 

[Dr. Pepper]

50 minutes ago, Relic said:

Hmmmm,  hate to say it but it feels like this show really fell off after Miller departed. 

 

Spoiler

Just wait a bit.

 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Just wait a bit.

 

Spoiler

For?

 

[Dr. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

  Reveal hidden contents

For?

 

I don't know what type of spoilers you're ok with, but beware, big spoilers.

Spoiler

If they follow the books, Miller will be back in some form next season.

 

[boojam]

23 hours ago, Relic said:

Hmmmm,  hate to say it but it feels like this show really fell off after Miller departed. 

Got to say , tho, that Season 2 Episode 5 is the best TV science fiction story I have ever seen.(TV that is.)

[SpaceChampion]

This show does a good job of giving three-dimensional personalities for their walk-on characters.

[Steinman]

The Monster and the Rocket was another in a line of great episodes, bordering on perfect. The refugee situation had a fantastic resolution and the big beltalowda was the episode's MVP. Earth scenes were fantastic too.

[Wethers]

1 hour ago, Steinman said:

The Monster and the Rocket was another in a line of great episodes, bordering on perfect. The refugee situation had a fantastic resolution and the big beltalowda was the episode's MVP. Earth scenes were fantastic too.

I think it was very good, maybe the 3rd or 4th best episode of the season behind e5 (the best), e4 and perhaps e2.

I completely agree about the big beltalowda being the highlight.  That scene at the end with him, Naomi and the refugees was fantastic.

Quite a departure (continued) with Errinwright (sp?) and it will be interesting to see where they take that with him threatening Mao directly to force Mao to choose to sell the Caliban technology to Earth.  In the books, 

Spoiler

Admiral Nguyen was also integral to the conspiracy/shadow government, so I wonder if he is part of Errinwright's power play in the series.

Some random quibbles that did bother me:

I think it may resolve itself, but as others have said, Holden is too dark without the audience having got a chance to know him as a well-meaning guy.  Yes in the book, he freaks out when he finds protomolecule residue from the escaped Caliban on Ganymede and worries it will become another Eros, but there has been a long stretch of him being likeable before it even starts building towards that.  I know it's harder in the show because the book can reveal Holden's thoughts.

Also, how did Holden, Alex and Prax get on the Rocinante so easily with the Caliban soldier just outside the airlock at the end of Episode 11?  Ok not "just outside" but it looked like it was within 100m or so.  Did they just stroll out to the Roci in their vac suits, get in, take off all while the Caliban just watched them from nearby on the surface of Ganymede?  And if so, shouldn't they have shown that?

And finally, Holden's threat to get the MCRN to lay off the Weeping Somnabulist.  Ok fine, the Roci took out the one torpedo.  But after that there's an entire MCRN fleet out there, including presumably destroyers and cruisers with rail guns.  It's not mutually assured destruction - the Roci is a frigate and a tough ship, but in the face of that whole fleet of larger more powerful vessels, it would just get wiped out.  The Roci...

Spoiler

... at this point ...

... does not have a rail gun.  So the MCRN fleet, per all the battles in the book could have created a collective defensive screen of PDCs to prevent the Roci's torpedoes from damaging any individual MCRN ship, all while taking out the Roci with rail gun rounds, torpedoes whatever.  They had no reason to take the Holden's threat seriously.  Of course, maybe the MCRN just decided it wasn't worth engaging their entire fleet to stop a rogue 3rd party frigate since they were more concerned about an impending attack from the Earth/UN fleet.  And the Earth/UN fleet had (somehow - rail gun?) apparently just taken out the stealth ship Karakum (sp?) which was there to rendezvous with the Protogen team on the surface.  So maybe that explains it.

[Mladen]

Holly lemoncake... That was AWESOME.

The way that Belter calmed down the crowds was such a passionate, strong movement. There is always THAT moment when the chaos and world's issues simply become irrelevant and human kindness and overall goodness prevails. This was such a beautiful moment and I truly adored every second of it.

The politics was also amazing. We finally see the patriotism taking two sides, and whether Errinwright is hiding behind "Earth comes first" or not, one has to argue that he becomes a radical antagonist to Avasarala's mission. If proto-soldier becomes the Holden's enemy n.1, Errinwright certainly moved the shift from Mao to him. 

So, so, so hyped about the finale. 

[Martini Sigil]

8 minutes ago, Risto said:

Holly lemoncake... That was AWESOME.

The way that Belter calmed down the crowds was such a passionate, strong movement. There is always THAT moment when the chaos and world's issues simply become irrelevant and human kindness and overall goodness prevails. This was such a beautiful moment and I truly adored every second of it.

 

Totally.... how can anyone not love that big galoot?.... and it totally went  a different way than I was expecting... The expressions on the faces of the people who had to stay behind was heartbreaking....

The thing about this show, is that if it didn't take place in space, it would still be a great show.

[Astromech]

42 minutes ago, Wethers said:

I think it was very good, maybe the 3rd or 4th best episode of the season behind e5 (the best), e4 and perhaps e2.

I completely agree about the big beltalowda being the highlight.  That scene at the end with him, Naomi and the refugees was fantastic.

Quite a departure (continued) with Errinwright (sp?) and it will be interesting to see where they take that with him threatening Mao directly to force Mao to choose to sell the Caliban technology to Earth.  In the books, 

  Reveal hidden contents

Admiral Nguyen was also integral to the conspiracy/shadow government, so I wonder if he is part of Errinwright's power play in the series.

Some random quibbles that did bother me:

I think it may resolve itself, but as others have said, Holden is too dark without the audience having got a chance to know him as a well-meaning guy.  Yes in the book, he freaks out when he finds protomolecule residue from the escaped Caliban on Ganymede and worries it will become another Eros, but there has been a long stretch of him being likeable before it even starts building towards that.  I know it's harder in the show because the book can reveal Holden's thoughts.

Also, how did Holden, Alex and Prax get on the Rocinante so easily with the Caliban soldier just outside the airlock at the end of Episode 11?  Ok not "just outside" but it looked like it was within 100m or so.  Did they just stroll out to the Roci in their vac suits, get in, take off all while the Caliban just watched them from nearby on the surface of Ganymede?  And if so, shouldn't they have shown that?

And finally, Holden's threat to get the MCRN to lay off the Weeping Somnabulist.  Ok fine, the Roci took out the one torpedo.  But after that there's an entire MCRN fleet out there, including presumably destroyers and cruisers with rail guns.  It's not mutually assured destruction - the Roci is a frigate and a tough ship, but in the face of that whole fleet of larger more powerful vessels, it would just get wiped out.  The Roci...

  Reveal hidden contents

... at this point ...

... does not have a rail gun.  So the MCRN fleet, per all the battles in the book could have created a collective defensive screen of PDCs to prevent the Roci's torpedoes from damaging any individual MCRN ship, all while taking out the Roci with rail gun rounds, torpedoes whatever.  They had no reason to take the Holden's threat seriously.  Of course, maybe the MCRN just decided it wasn't worth engaging their entire fleet to stop a rogue 3rd party frigate since they were more concerned about an impending attack from the Earth/UN fleet.  And the Earth/UN fleet had (somehow - rail gun?) apparently just taken out the stealth ship Karakum (sp?) which was there to rendezvous with the Protogen team on the surface.  So maybe that explains it.

I have to agree with your quibbles, especially concerning Holden. I miss the boy scout from the novels. I was hoping Alex would space the Cpt Bligh version the show has given us the past few episodes.

 

[Pliskin]

I was finding Holden pathetic but bearable, but this episode got him to a whole new level. He's just insufferable. I can't stand him anymore.

I miss the Paragon Shepard-like character I liked in the books.

[boojam]

This was the 2nd best episode of the series. I can't see how the can trump episode 5 of this season. Maybe next season.

This show is unique as TV 'solar system space opera' ( I use the term space opera in the sense that it evolved in the prose form).

Star Trek is more proper 'interstellar flight space opera' , for want of a better word. The Expanse is doing narrative that is directly from the pages of prose SF starting in 1938 with John W Campbell's taking the helm of Astounding. This kind of story telling has been common currency on the page for the last 80 years! It has taken that long to get it on TV!

(Have had good 'space opera' in the movies, Forbidden Planet, sophisticated 'future on a chipped plate' SF ... Blade Runner, Big Thinks Science fiction , 2001: A Space Odyssey. I kind of doubt there ever will be another Big Thinks SF movie or TV.)  

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, Pliskin said:

I was finding Holden pathetic but bearable, but this episode got him to a whole new level. He's just insufferable. I can't stand him anymore.

I miss the Paragon Shepard-like character I liked in the books.

There is something he does with his eyes that is just totally insufferable. More than Harington's open mouth.

10 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

Totally.... how can anyone not love that big galoot?.... and it totally went  a different way than I was expecting... The expressions on the faces of the people who had to stay behind was heartbreaking....

The thing about this show, is that if it didn't take place in space, it would still be a great show.

Every now and then we hear about those stories and the more we live, the less likely those stories are. But, they do happen. And you are completely right, whatever the setting is, there are many things about it that can work whichever world the story is set in. 

This show just needs to be more exposed. It really has amazing potential.