SpaceChampion

The Expanse #2: Caliban's Thread - [spoilers for book only up to latest tv show episode]

505 posts in this topic

 
If not watching The Expanse you a missing one of the best series on TV right now.

Second season of The Expanse:

I have been watching this , on Amazon (so I don’t have to put up with the ads) , this solar system space opera, it is better than Star Trek ever was (and I love Star Trek). The influences here are really John W. Campbell and verisimilitude of SF prose as it developed in the 40s and 50s. 

Season 2 is better than season 1. Can’s say it is perfect , some tap dancing going on, but this stuff is very familiar to old time readers , like me. Been waiting a long time to TV space opera done this well.

 

Edited by boojam

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Yeah, this was the true season 1 finale which is why it had the pacing of a climax. I get what Kalbear is saying about the lack of body horror with the protomolecule, but I'm just honestly not as down for that in visual media as I am in a book. What we got was something that was incredibly alien in its beauty rather than its horror.

Brook pointed out to me as we were watching that the visuals were using recurring natural motifs, but just that little bit off and then with the colours changed to luminous rather than reflective. When Miller first gets deeper into it, he's moving through structures that look very web like, but while the structures are similar the pattern is wrong to be a spider web. As he moves deeper in we got honeycomb, only the pattern wasn't a perfect hexagon - but it had the grid and solidity of honeycomb. As he's passing into Julie's inner sanctum, the entrance looks almost like the opening to a cave formed out of light...it actually bears a similarity to the doorway at the end of The Matrix when Neo is seeing everything in its code. Fantasic design whoever came up with it.

I cried deeply at Avasarala's call with Arjun. I know in that case that its building on the books and every conversation of theirs gets me in the books but it doesn't matter.

Separate from that I'm impressed with the way the show continues to foreshadow later events in a way that makes it seem like 'they won't do that' only to do that. I saw a few comments after the previous week that they were thinking 'Miller is this shows Ned Stark' only for the Nauvoo to miss, and I'm sure they were then convinced any further close calls would miss as well. Then this week he gets the ending he chooses. Of course the only similarity is the death and that some people thought he was the star, Miller's character arc was complete, his life was ready to end...Ned was nothing of the sort.

And I'm *in love* with Drummer. I loved Sam in the books, and with her not introduced this far into the show plus Drummer becoming friends with Naomi, I'm pretty sure they've amalgamated the characters. Changed the name, made her Fred's XO instead of his chief Engineer. Hopefully this changes some others things too! I guess it's not actually confirmed Drummer is queer yet, if she's not then I'd say they haven't done this...but she feels very much that to me.

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There is a Sam Rosenberg in the show technically, first season, but I don't recall her having any lines and she won't get Sam's arc from the books, and I don't know if that actress would be seen again.  I think when they started plotting season 2 they rethought what they'd do with her.  Drummer is as you guessed a merge of Sam and Drummer from the books.  Apparently episode 8 is a big deal for her character, or at least the actress was highly praised by one of the authors (i think Ty Franck) for a particular scene she has in it.

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56 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

There is a Sam Rosenberg in the show technically, first season, but I don't recall her having any lines and she won't get Sam's arc from the books, and I don't know if that actress would be seen again.  I think when they started plotting season 2 they rethought what they'd do with her.  Drummer is as you guessed a merge of Sam and Drummer from the books.  Apparently episode 8 is a big deal for her character, or at least the actress was highly praised by one of the authors (i think Ty Franck) for a particular scene she has in it.

Where was this confirmed? I thought I'd seen most comments around it, but I've clearly missed this one and I need to rectify it!

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I'm trying to remember -- it might have been the latest episode of the Blastr podcast "The Churn" (with Ty Franck, Daniel Abraham and another producer were guests) or the latest episode of Afterbuzz TV's Expanse review where Dominique Tipper was a guest via skype.  Might have been both -- a bit from each.

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I am glad I know someone who watches the SyFy channel (I don't like the name SyFy nor Sci Fi) because even tho they had done some ok stuff , long ago, and did a respectful rendition of Childhood's End (tho I don't know why!) , I had gotten to think of this as the Sharknado Channel.

At an urging I watched the first season of The Expanse ,  it drew me in.

Second season is better than the first, but this Episode 5 season 2, is a home run, man!

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5 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

I'm trying to remember -- it might have been the latest episode of the Blastr podcast "The Churn" (with Ty Franck, Daniel Abraham and another producer were guests) or the latest episode of Afterbuzz TV's Expanse review where Dominique Tipper was a guest via skype.  Might have been both -- a bit from each.

Yeah, I listened to it on the way home after work before I saw your post and heard it there lol. Was the latest one after 'Home'. ETA - The Churn that is

Edited by karaddin
eta

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Oh good, I wondering if I imagined it.

 

NOTE to everyone -- did this a few weeks ago, but changed the thread title to indicate NO spoilers for material from the books that is not already revealed by the current episode of the show.  Anything later, hide under spoiler tags.  I got spoiled for book 5 here..   I suppose my fault if the original title was not clear enough.

As of now, all of LEVIATHAN WAKES can be talked about openly.  Nothing of CALIBAN'S WAR yet, but just as the episodes reveal.

 

Edited by SpaceChampion

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So if Cara Gee's character is Drummer but merges in Sam Rosenberg,

Spoiler

SPOILERS through Babylon's Ashes:

....

Will Michio Pa be a separate character?  I actually was thinking they were merging Drummer and Michio Pa.  I was thinking they just wanted to introduce her early, and that she would be the XO that agrees to the mutiny on the Behemoth and later gets peeled away from Fred Johnson, probably by Anderson Dawes at first, but later becomes complicit in the Free Navy before rebelling against that too.

Of course in the books, Michio Pa had a clandestine romantic relationship with Sam Rosenberg, so if these characters were all merged, then that could be different.

 

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Why are futuristic tablets always see through?  I can't imagine it ever being desirable but there must be a logical reason they are so popular in shows or movies, perhaps easier for the camera to film?

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Why are futuristic tablets always see through?  I can't imagine it ever being desirable but there must be a logical reason they are so popular in shows or movies, perhaps easier for the camera to film?

That, plus your props department just has to make a slab of lucite.

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5 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

NOTE to everyone -- did this a few weeks ago, but changed the thread title to indicate NO spoilers for material from the books that is not already revealed by the current episode of the show.  Anything later, hide under spoiler tags.  I got spoiled for book 5 here..   I suppose my fault if the original title was not clear enough.

As of now, all of LEVIATHAN WAKES can be talked about openly.  Nothing of CALIBAN'S WAR yet, but just as the episodes reveal.

 

Thanks, I had missed the title change so didn't realise. I hope it wasn't me that spoiled you...the previous thread had been full book spoilers and I'd just plowed ahead thinking it was the same.

3 hours ago, Wethers said:

So if Cara Gee's character is Drummer but merges in Sam Rosenberg,

  Hide contents

SPOILERS through Babylon's Ashes:

....

Will Michio Pa be a separate character?  I actually was thinking they were merging Drummer and Michio Pa.  I was thinking they just wanted to introduce her early, and that she would be the XO that agrees to the mutiny on the Behemoth and later gets peeled away from Fred Johnson, probably by Anderson Dawes at first, but later becomes complicit in the Free Navy before rebelling against that too.

Of course in the books, Michio Pa had a clandestine romantic relationship with Sam Rosenberg, so if these characters were all merged, then that could be different.

 

Spoiler

Ty was asked about this on twitter and while his response wasn't "its impossible" the tone suggested that they haven't merged in Pa. Given Sam's relationship with Pa was already clandestine, the need for it being secret is only going to be higher if it's Drummer/his XO now. I now think that the Drummer/Sam amalgamation will survive past the slow zone since in the podcast Ty said something to the effect of "we decided we could roll these characters together rather than having to introduce yet another one to fill the role of Drummer down the line" and that stuff occurs in book 5. I'm not sure what they'll do to peel Pa away from Johnson if its not the death of her girlfriend, but I can see the potential for major drama/conflict in Pa getting disillusioned and leaving but Drummer staying loyal...it adds a level of betrayal to the emotion on both sides.

I guess they could keep Pa's girlfriend as the in show Samantha Rosenberg though, but I got the impression the contract negotiation got stuffed up and there was a reason they couldn't use her.

Regardless, my book crush on Sam is formally transferred to Drummer...and I'm disappointed that Naomi is just monogamous with Holden because they had good chemistry :P

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Why are futuristic tablets always see through?  I can't imagine it ever being desirable but there must be a logical reason they are so popular in shows or movies, perhaps easier for the camera to film?

Either Dan or Ty specifically addressed this on twitter at one point and admitted they're not actually practical but they look really good on screen. One of those things that works visually and if the audience just accepts it as a conceit of visual media its not a problem, but unfortunately does break immersion for others (*looks at HE*). I think a fair bit of the stuff that seems stupid comes down to this sort of thing, the average audience needs the show to be speaking the language they understand even if outliers find some of those things take them out of the show.

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11 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Why are futuristic tablets always see through?  I can't imagine it ever being desirable but there must be a logical reason they are so popular in shows or movies, perhaps easier for the camera to film?

To me that's ok, enough, but the 'control' 'tablets' on the flight deck seem too small, one could fat-finger them all the time!

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I am a little worried.

Spoilers for epilogue of Caliban's War:
 

Spoiler

 

Thomas Jane might not be returning. Or at least, that is the concern in one or two pockets of the internet. Some people are speculating that the role of the Investigator will be played by Elias Toufexis. He's the dude that played Avasarala's spy in season one. He's listed in IMDB as returning to the show in the season two finale. The character is The Hybrid.

Even though it's SyFy we're talking about, I can't see them going down this road. I suspect this is all just misdirection from the producers.

 

 

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Spoiler

 

It would be interesting to bring back the spy in some fashion, but it wouldn't have the same impact on Holden or the audience as Miller.  The spy, "The Hybrid", could maybe be part of the 'project' on Venus.  Maybe a Ganymede type monster because something about his tech prevented him from fully integrating or something.

At least I really hope they don't give up Miller's part to some random character no one cared about.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

I am a little worried.

Spoilers for epilogue of Caliban's War:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thomas Jane might not be returning. Or at least, that is the concern in one or two pockets of the internet. Some people are speculating that the role of the Investigator will be played by Elias Toufexis. He's the dude that played Avasarala's spy in season one. He's listed in IMDB as returning to the show in the season two finale. The character is The Hybrid.

Even though it's SyFy we're talking about, I can't see them going down this road. I suspect this is all just misdirection from the producers.

 

 

Spoiler

Book wise Miller does come back tho not exactly as a corporal being , don't know how they will handle this.

 

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2 hours ago, boojam said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Book wise Miller does come back tho not exactly as a corporal being , don't know how they will handle this.

 

Spoiler

Well he comes back as a ghost that only Holden can see. So I imagine something similar to how they showed Julie in this last episode, but not being able to touch him.

 

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Posted (edited)

Another excellent episode, some of the brief models in orbit around Ganymede were absolutely fantastic to go back and look at on pause.

I thought they did a great job with the Epstein drive story, and how they incorporated it into a new narrative style that hasn't shown up in the production yet (IIRC). 

Amos had some great moments, particularly the last scene with the confrontation over the flag, and his last reaction shot was so well done.

The show continues to impress, it does so many things perfectly, and seems to bring something new almost every episode.  Just slightly disappointed they didn't show the surface fight as per the first sequence of Novel #2/Caliban's, but despite that the sequence showing the results was excellent. 

It's killing me not being able to binge the entire season. 

Edited by SerHaHa

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Two questions....

1- How does Chrisjen know that JP Mao is responsible for Eros?

2- I f Epstein died in his endeavor (hurling through space), how did they ever discover what he did, especially since they call their propulsion systems "The Epstein Drive"????

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