GAME OF THRONES to end 13 episodes after the end of Season 6

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 hours ago, Wilnova said:

From the Variety article on Benioff and Weiss:

David and Dan be like, " Jon gets resurrected and Dany gets to Westeros in season 6! " and George be like, "Damn!"

Also this is very telling

Three years ago, GRRM was still not sure about a lot of his story or how it ends.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/features/game-of-thrones-season-6-preview-david-benioff-db-weiss-jon-snow-dead-1201755895/

Weiss: “Even with all the people we kill, I look at the call sheet and I’ll be like, ‘Goddamn it, that’s a lot of people. Got to kill some more.’ ”

Benioff: “It’s easy to kill. Creating a new character, you’ve got to service their whole backstory. Killing is just a line: ‘Head explodes.’ Done.”

Weiss: “ ‘Tyrion dies.’ The end.”


Benioff can’t resist making a joke: “People have to understand that at a certain point, Kit Harington became such a monster that writing him off the show was imperative to our sanity and the well-being of the crew, because he’s, frankly, abusive.”

I wonder who the first person to misunderstand a joke and go on a rant about it will be.

[Neds Secret]

I understand but I still don't find it terribly insightful or witty, kind of shitty sarcasm or something, not really helpful in getting a look into the show or their values or anything, a real cliquey sort of humour!

[MrsStocksey]

32 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

I understand but I still don't find it terribly insightful or witty, kind of shitty sarcasm or something, not really helpful in getting a look into the show or their values or anything, a real cliquey sort of humour!

Did you read the article in full? I think it gives a very good sense of their values and their attitude about the show.  It's 2 best mates who have been learning as they go, trying to deal with a ridiculous amount of pressure from the fans/themselves/HBO/Martin etc and trying to make something they love whilst having some fun doing it.    

[JonSnowed]

On 4/20/2016 at 1:00 PM, bb1180 said:

I tend to agree with you.  I think there's significant potential for Dany to take a darker path based on season 5 and the last book as well.  One thing I'm wondering is whether Dany's potential fall from benevolent ruler to tyrant is actually mirroring that of her father,  and like her father,  that being taken as a prisoner could prove the final catalyst in that transformation.  

This is spot on in my eyes, she will reach Westeros but as an invading conquerer and I think it will ultimately end in her death.  She started out as someone who meant well but the path down a dark trail to a morally less good character has already started.

[Ser Gareth]

23 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Nope. Completely wrong. Daenerys' first chapter after the timeskip is Daznak's pit. 

We still would've seen her gather the Dothraki, the ironborn and her post Meereen Essosi campaign as well as flash backing to what happened in Meereen during those 5 years. 

The Dornish and ironborn storyline was going to be the 200 page prologue of the post-timeskip of the 4th book with the reveal that they were both trying to hook up with Daenerys.

Interesting that you seem so convinced.  Do you have a source for that?  I distinctly remember him stating that it would start with her arrival in Westeros and that the rest of her story would've been told in memories.  But also that he was pleased when the five year gap was removed he could show her struggling to rule and learning her craft.

[Werthead]

Interesting. HBO has confirmed the seventh season, but not the eighth.

Possibilities:

1. HBO want the final 13 episodes all in Season 7, but will air it in two parts as per Benioff and Weiss's preference, maybe airing the two halves 4 or 6 months apart, or holding the final six back until 2018 anyway. They're only calling it Season 7 for contractual reasons or something.

2. HBO want to see how the raitings for Season 6 hold up for the first few weeks before confirming Season 8. I don't really see the point of them doing that, so 1 I think is more likely.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

36 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Interesting. HBO has confirmed the seventh season, but not the eighth.

Possibilities:

1. HBO want the final 13 episodes all in Season 7, but will air it in two parts as per Benioff and Weiss's preference, maybe airing the two halves 4 or 6 months apart, or holding the final six back until 2018 anyway. They're only calling it Season 7 for contractual reasons or something.

2. HBO want to see how the raitings for Season 6 hold up for the first few weeks before confirming Season 8. I don't really see the point of them doing that, so 1 I think is more likely.

Doubt its number 2, the shows ratings have been going up steadily and its HBO's only hit right now.

[Colonel Green]

Multi-season renewals are the exception, not the rule.  There's probably a ton of stuff regarding Season 8 that hasn't been hashed out yet, from the cast contracts to the episode count.  So it's not unusual that the final season hasn't been announced yet.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

49 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Interesting that you seem so convinced.  Do you have a source for that?  I distinctly remember him stating that it would start with her arrival in Westeros and that the rest of her story would've been told in memories.  But also that he was pleased when the five year gap was removed he could show her struggling to rule and learning her craft.

https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2urp92/spoilers_written_do_you_feel_like_theres_a/cob2hkv

Tldr; Before the timeskip was scrapped, GRRM read the opening to what would become Daznak's pit. That means she was still in Meereen in chapter one. 

And the HOTU shows her freeing the crones of Vaes Dothrak so she would've headed there at one point after Meereen.

[Werthead]

43 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Multi-season renewals are the exception, not the rule.  There's probably a ton of stuff regarding Season 8 that hasn't been hashed out yet, from the cast contracts to the episode count.  So it's not unusual that the final season hasn't been announced yet.

That didn't stop Seasons 5 and 6 being greenlit simultaneously. More to the point, HBO were specifically saying just a few weeks ago that they were going to renew the show for the final two seasons together. Greenlighting Season 7 by itself suggests a change in that approach or plan.

[Colonel Green]

22 minutes ago, Werthead said:

That didn't stop Seasons 5 and 6 being greenlit simultaneously. More to the point, HBO were specifically saying just a few weeks ago that they were going to renew the show for the final two seasons together. Greenlighting Season 7 by itself suggests a change in that approach or plan.

I doubt it, personally.  If they were saying that, more likely it indicates they haven't come to an agreement on the parameters of Season 8.  Doing the split season thing would compromise the show's production schedule.

[Ser Gareth]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2urp92/spoilers_written_do_you_feel_like_theres_a/cob2hkv

Tldr; Before the timeskip was scrapped, GRRM read the opening to what would become Daznak's pit. That means she was still in Meereen in chapter one. 

And the HOTU shows her freeing the crones of Vaes Dothrak so she would've headed there at one point after Meereen.

That's a fairly recent interview.  The one I am thinking of goes back to the early 00's before AFFC was even released.  GRRM has contradicted himself many times over the last 15 years.  A prime example being him stating the 5 year gap worked well for the younger characters like Dany, Jon, Arya etc. back when he was first justifying it in interviews and yet in recent interviews I have read, over the last 3 or 4 years, he has clearly used Jon as an example as to why it wouldn't work.

The interview I read stated that ADWD's primary focus was Dany and the impact of her return to Westeros.  It would start with her arrival on Westeros shores.  This was back when he stated the series was a six book series and the names of the books followed events more closely.  E.g. the 4th book was going to be called ADWD because that is what would happen in the book (presumably the whole Aegon thing).

I would be concerned that there were meant to be two massive books AFTER Dany reached Westeros but as he has changed his mind so often combined with my opinion that GRRM won't finish the series anyway I guess it doesn't really matter whether he now believes the series needs 8, 9, 10 etc. books to finish it off!

[Werthead]

Quote

Doing the split season thing would compromise the show's production schedule.

Not necessarily. Split seasons can very from anything from a longer writing/production/viewing schedule (just add an extra 3 episodes on board) to simply making two seasons and treating them as one purely for legal purposes (that's what happened to The Sopranos).

In the case of GoT they could write and film 13 episodes together, but because post would not be done in time, they'd split the season and air Episodes 1-7 in April and May (or from late April to early June) as normal and then air 8-13 from say late September to early November.

However, my guess is that D&D want longer time to do everything, including writing, which is the show's biggest weakness and has been for a couple of years now. So in that case they could just split them as Season 7a and Season 7b aired a year apart, or HBO could just treat them outright as Seasons 7 and 8.

Quote

That's a fairly recent interview.  The one I am thinking of goes back to the early 00's before AFFC was even released.  GRRM has contradicted himself many times over the last 15 years.  A prime example being him stating the 5 year gap worked well for the younger characters like Dany, Jon, Arya etc. back when he was first justifying it in interviews and yet in recent interviews I have read, over the last 3 or 4 years, he has clearly used Jon as an example as to why it wouldn't work.

That's not a contradiction though: Jon being in command of the Night's Watch for 5 years, negotiating the peace with the wildlings off-screen, storing up food, dealing with the Iron Bank etc was all stuff that would have happened off-screen and GRRM has said it'd make more sense for Jon to then be a respected, seasoned commander before going off the rails with the Hardhome stuff. So that worked great with the five-year split.

What didn't work was the overall plot with the Others: they're on the move in AGoT and ASoS, they're an imminent (ish) threat and then they don't show up for five years? Martin found it hard to sell that at the same time he felt it benefitted Jon's storyline.

Quote

 

The interview I read stated that ADWD's primary focus was Dany and the impact of her return to Westeros.  It would start with her arrival on Westeros shores.  This was back when he stated the series was a six book series and the names of the books followed events more closely.  E.g. the 4th book was going to be called ADWD because that is what would happen in the book (presumably the whole Aegon thing).

 

That was when ADWD was the second book of the trilogy: ADWD Mk. 1 would feature Dany returning to Westeros and invading at the head of the Dothraki army she had seized control of after she'd murdered Khal Drogo to avenge Viserys's death. In this version of the story, she never went to Qarth or Slaver's Bay, but basically turned around after the dragons were born and conquered the Dothraki outright.

The story slightly changed after that plot point was abandoned though

That version of ADWD was abandoned very early in the process. By the time the writing of the series reached the six-book plan (between 1998 and 2001), the post-five-year-gap version of ADWD would open with Daenerys discussing opening the fighting pits and eventually agreeing, then literally Dany's second chapter would be her in Daznak's pits with Drogon descending from on high.

What is bonkers is that by that stage GRRM had committed fully to Aegon (fake or not), so somehow Dany was still going to conquer the Dothraki, keep Meereen safe and arrive in Westeros by the end of that book. Based on how things have fallen out, I'm wondering if the original plan as for Dany and Aegon to meet head-on (hence a dance of dragons part 2) but now George might be having Aegon taken out by the Martells or Tyrells or in some other fashion before Dany gets back (since now I can't see Dany returning before the end of TWoW, at least).

Quote

I would be concerned that there were meant to be two massive books AFTER Dany reached Westeros but as he has changed his mind

I've gotten the impression from George over the years that his plan may have shifted away from Dany invading Westeros, having her own struggle to seize the throne and then subsequently fighting the Other invasion separately, to everything happening much more simultaneously: Dany invading and learning even as she's on the move that the Others are attacking etc and it's all a lot more chaotic. Which to me always made more sense anyway than letting Dany regroup first.

[Tyrosh]

On 4/18/2016 at 2:47 PM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

No i disagree, adding Jamie to the plot was a good decision, it helped to establish the link between Myrcella and Kings Landing (something that many views might have struggled to rememeber, especially considering its a different actress and you've barely seen the character before, and when you did it was a long time ago) and also establish a coherent like for the Dorne thread and the Kings landing thread. Without it you are left with an entire season in a remote location that has very little baring on what happens elsewhere in the show, and affects no major characters directly. The audience would have no idea why they are watching it. That isn't dismissing the audience, its being realistic.


 

 

Indeed! There is another thing, they had to move Jamie out of the KL. Otherwise, main events involving "kidnapping" of Cersei, High Sparrow, Olenna Tyrell and Littlefinger would take very different course.

 

Second thing is, as a result of Jamie's little adventure in Dorn, Doran Martell's son will become member of a Small Council, for what it's worth.

 

My "problem" with the "Dorn adventure" is this:

1. Ellaria Sand could easily kill Myrcella 15 times over by the time Jamie and Bronn arrive.

2. Why on Earth would she send elaborate package (snake and a necklace), to "warn" that she is about to kill Myrcella?

Perhaps, send something afterwards, with the message "eye for an eye", that type of thing

 

So let's say it's a bait, she wants to scare Cersei, and force her hand, to send someone important who would rescue the princess.

Cersei bites, and sends none other but Jamie, it's a jackpot for Ellaria - however she doesn't kill Jamie, yet kills Myrcella (who is still a kid, and who actually grew to like Dorne, and Martell Jr).

[btw, the contrast - Myrcella crying like there is no tommorow when she was sent off to Dorn vs "I don't wanna go back" is great LOL]

 

3. Finally, the exposition where Ellaria and her daughters are "plotting" is very convenient for novice viewers, it's like they are spelling it for us.

 

Personally I liked how it was structured like 1930s pulp adventure, and we got to see Dorn.

 

So overall nothing terrible, however - knowing just the outcome, without details in between, without further development of characters and their relationships, that can be the problem IMO for these 2 final seasons.

Also, in all previous episodes (all seasons), show creators use very little exposition (mostly in early episodes in 1st season), they always

assume (our) familiarity with what's going on.

AFAIK that's a problem with mainstream TV and movies these days - it's too much about logic, events and final outcomes, not about people and how we connect with them.

So far GoT avoided that (and many other) clishes, but Dorne is a red light.

 

[Valetudo]

24 minutes ago, Tyrosh said:

 

Indeed! There is another thing, they had to move Jamie out of the KL. Otherwise, main events involving "kidnapping" of Cersei, High Sparrow, Olenna Tyrell and Littlefinger would take very different course.

 

Second thing is, as a result of Jamie's little adventure in Dorn, Doran Martell's son will become member of a Small Council, for what it's worth.

 

My "problem" with the "Dorn adventure" is this:

1. Ellaria Sand could easily kill Myrcella 15 times over by the time Jamie and Bronn arrive.

2. Why on Earth would she send elaborate package (snake and a necklace), to "warn" that she is about to kill Myrcella?

Perhaps, send something afterwards, with the message "eye for an eye", that type of thing

 

So let's say it's a bait, she wants to scare Cersei, and force her hand, to send someone important who would rescue the princess.

Cersei bites, and sends none other but Jamie, it's a jackpot for Ellaria - however she doesn't kill Jamie, yet kills Myrcella (who is still a kid, and who actually grew to like Dorne, and Martell Jr).

[btw, the contrast - Myrcella crying like there is no tommorow when she was sent off to Dorn vs "I don't wanna go back" is great LOL]

 

3. Finally, the exposition where Ellaria and her daughters are "plotting" is very convenient for novice viewers, it's like they are spelling it for us.

 

Personally I liked how it was structured like 1930s pulp adventure, and we got to see Dorn.

 

So overall nothing terrible, however - knowing just the outcome, without details in between, without further development of characters and their relationships, that can be the problem IMO for these 2 final seasons.

Also, in all previous episodes (all seasons), show creators use very little exposition (mostly in early episodes in 1st season), they always

assume (our) familiarity with what's going on.

AFAIK that's a problem with mainstream TV and movies these days - it's too much about logic, events and final outcomes, not about people and how we connect with them.

So far GoT avoided that (and many other) clishes, but Dorne is a red light.

 

If getting Jaime out of KL was so important and contracting the story to finish faster too, why didn't they send him directly to the Riverlands and resolve this problem last season? The Dorne storyline could have been cut to the first scene between Ellaria and Doran and a scene where she kills Myrcella. That's all that happened in Dorne. The remaining time would have been used with Jaime in Riverrun, saving time for season 6.

Trystane becoming a member of the small council??? Dorne just declared war by killing Myrcella. How will Cersei react when Jaime reaches KL with the body of her daughter and a Dornish aboard? I doubt that she, or whoever will be in control (Kevan?) will just forget about it and welcome him with open arms. They strike me more as the revengeful type.

[Tyrosh]

44 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

If getting Jaime out of KL was so important and contracting the story to finish faster too, why didn't they send him directly to the Riverlands and resolve this problem last season? The Dorne storyline could have been cut to the first scene between Ellaria and Doran and a scene where she kills Myrcella. That's all that happened in Dorne. The remaining time would have been used with Jaime in Riverrun, saving time for season 6.

Trystane becoming a member of the small council??? Dorne just declared war by killing Myrcella. How will Cersei react when Jaime reaches KL with the body of her daughter and a Dornish aboard? I doubt that she, or whoever will be in control (Kevan?) will just forget about it and welcome him with open arms. They strike me more as the revengeful type.

 

Previous season, there was no Cersei confession/High Sparrow/Olenna Tyrell/Littlefinger story.

I don't think they wanted to finish that one faster. That's a great story, don't you think. Cersei, who is a running a show now, is in prison of sorts, starved and humiliated, and there is no papa (or Joffrey) to rescue her (and Jamei is out of the reach). Her other son is indecisive, apparently recluse.

 

If Jamei was closer, presumably ravens (or just the news) would reach him, he would return to KL to get her out.

 

Also I can imagine Jamei blaming Cersei for their daughter's death, at least partially, which may play important role latter on.

 

Dorne, or a rogue element inside the Dorne, either way.

 

Precisely - revengeful, and if they kill Doran Martell's son there is escalation of that conflict right there. Overall impact of Dorn-story is that much less trivial.

 

 

[Valetudo]

1 minute ago, Tyrosh said:

 

Previous season, there was no Cersei confession/High Sparrow/Olenna Tyrell/Littlefinger story.

I don't think they wanted to finish that one faster. That's a great story, don't you think. Cersei, who is a running a show now, is in prison of sorts, starved and humiliated, and there is no papa (or Joffrey) to rescue her (and Jamei is out of the reach). Her other son is indecisive, apparently recluse.

 

 

Having Jaime in the Riverlands in season 5 doesn't mean that they have to speed up Cersei's story.

[239JMFL34109]

51 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

If getting Jaime out of KL was so important and contracting the story to finish faster too, why didn't they send him directly to the Riverlands and resolve this problem last season? The Dorne storyline could have been cut to the first scene between Ellaria and Doran and a scene where she kills Myrcella. That's all that happened in Dorne. The remaining time would have been used with Jaime in Riverrun, saving time for season 6.

Trystane becoming a member of the small council??? Dorne just declared war by killing Myrcella. How will Cersei react when Jaime reaches KL with the body of her daughter and a Dornish aboard? I doubt that she, or whoever will be in control (Kevan?) will just forget about it and welcome him with open arms. They strike me more as the revengeful type.

That was a whole lot of expensive filming at an expensive place with expensive actors. they were going to get a lot of scenes for the money. 

[good girl]

1 hour ago, Tyrosh said:

 

Indeed! There is another thing, they had to move Jamie out of the KL. Otherwise, main events involving "kidnapping" of Cersei, High Sparrow, Olenna Tyrell and Littlefinger would take very different course.

 

Second thing is, as a result of Jamie's little adventure in Dorn, Doran Martell's son will become member of a Small Council, for what it's worth.

 

My "problem" with the "Dorn adventure" is this:

1. Ellaria Sand could easily kill Myrcella 15 times over by the time Jamie and Bronn arrive.

2. Why on Earth would she send elaborate package (snake and a necklace), to "warn" that she is about to kill Myrcella?

Perhaps, send something afterwards, with the message "eye for an eye", that type of thing

 

So let's say it's a bait, she wants to scare Cersei, and force her hand, to send someone important who would rescue the princess.

Cersei bites, and sends none other but Jamie, it's a jackpot for Ellaria - however she doesn't kill Jamie, yet kills Myrcella (who is still a kid, and who actually grew to like Dorne, and Martell Jr).

[btw, the contrast - Myrcella crying like there is no tommorow when she was sent off to Dorn vs "I don't wanna go back" is great LOL]

 

3. Finally, the exposition where Ellaria and her daughters are "plotting" is very convenient for novice viewers, it's like they are spelling it for us.

 

Personally I liked how it was structured like 1930s pulp adventure, and we got to see Dorn.

 

So overall nothing terrible, however - knowing just the outcome, without details in between, without further development of characters and their relationships, that can be the problem IMO for these 2 final seasons.

Also, in all previous episodes (all seasons), show creators use very little exposition (mostly in early episodes in 1st season), they always

assume (our) familiarity with what's going on.

AFAIK that's a problem with mainstream TV and movies these days - it's too much about logic, events and final outcomes, not about people and how we connect with them.

So far GoT avoided that (and many other) clishes, but Dorne is a red light.

 

 

The idea is for Cersei to send a conventional force against Dorne and have open warfare between Sunspear and the Iron Throne.

That doesn't happen as Jaime tries to enter Dorne covertly but Ellaria learns about his arrival causing her to escalate her efforts. She doesn't even need to assume Jaime is going to take Myrcella back but just discuss the threat with Doran and Trystane which would be bad for Ellaria. So she ups the stakes and wants to kill Myrcella hoping to get a rash reaction from Jaime or Doran that will lead to war.

The fact Jaime and Ellaria arrive at Myrcella simultaneously is just usual storytelling contrivance. Tywin/Loras arriving at the Blackwater, Stannis arriving at the Wall to stop the Wildlings etc

[Valetudo]

5 minutes ago, Tyrosh said:

 

If Jamei was closer, presumably ravens (or just thew news) would reach him, he would return to KL to get her out.

 

Also I can imagine Jamei blaming Cersei for their daughter's death, at least partially, which may play important role latter on.

You know a story where Jaime was closer and news of Cersei reached him, and where he had a reason to turn against her? Ah, that's right, the books story!

8 minutes ago, Tyrosh said:

 

 

Precisely - revengeful, and if they kill Doran Martell's son there is escalation of that conflict right there. Overall impact of Dorn-story is that much less trivial.

 

 

So, in your previous post, you had Trystane sitting in the small council, but now you think he'll be killed - quite different!

Either way, his actual situation in the show is devoid of logic. Ellaria, by  killing Myrcella, just condemned Trystane and declared war to KL. By avenging her husband, she just condemned the heir of her kingdom.

Doran doesn't need his son to be killed in order to be pissed with KL either. They killed his brother and sister already.

So yeah, S5 Dorne was completely pointless.