Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/batman-killing-joke-animated-rated-r?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link /The Deadpool effect rages on...although this does seem appropriate, given the source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Quote Starring Kevin Conroy as the voice of Batman/Bruce Wayne, Mark Hamill as the Joker, and Tara Strong as Batgirl/Barbara Gordon, This pleases me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, drawkcabi said: This pleases me. Yeah, it looks like they're set to knock this one out of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Just a heads up that this movie is going to be in theaters this Monday (July 25) only. It's going to be at my local theater, I'd like to see it on a big screen but I don't know if I can make it. At least it's coming out on DVD right away after. Looking forward to seeing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 1 hour ago, drawkcabi said: Just a heads up that this movie is going to be in theaters this Monday (July 25) only. It's going to be at my local theater, I'd like to see it on a big screen but I don't know if I can make it. At least it's coming out on DVD right away after. Looking forward to seeing this. Some areas have been given two nights due to popularity. The creators must be confident as I don't recall them doing this with any of the other DCAU films (I'd have thought Dark Knight returns and Year 1 would be as recognisable). This may be an oppurtunity for the films to make more cash as some of them perform quite badly. I know I tend to wait until omnibus editions come out collecting 4 films of say Batman or Superman animated films. I'd go to the cinema release in UK but when cost of ticket and transport is considered I think I'll just buy the Blu-ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Wouldn't mind catching this in a theater. Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to check my local listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 This is one of my favorite comic stories of all time, and is starring my favorite Joker . It is a shame that I will not be seeing this. I will not support anything by DC until they get rid of Zach Snyder so not a penny of my money is misconstrued with my endorsement of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said: This is one of my favorite comic stories of all time, and is starring my favorite Joker . It is a shame that I will not be seeing this. I will not support anything by DC until they get rid of Zach Snyder so not a penny of my money is misconstrued with my endorsement of him. It has nothing to do with Snyder. A more effective protest would be to fully support the animated film so that when they see it's wildly exceeded expectations they can compare it to BvS (which under-performed) and connect the dots. Otherwise all you're doing is helping projects that you admit to wanting to see fail. But zero tolerance is fine if that's what you think it will take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 12 hours ago, red snow said: It has nothing to do with Snyder. A more effective protest would be to fully support the animated film so that when they see it's wildly exceeded expectations they can compare it to BvS (which under-performed) and connect the dots. Otherwise all you're doing is helping projects that you admit to wanting to see fail. But zero tolerance is fine if that's what you think it will take. I understand what you are saying. This looks like an amazing film precisely because Snyder doesn't have his dirty paws in it anywhere. If I thought for one second that my money would be viewed the way you are saying, I would go. I believe that more probably scenario is that DC and Warner getting the message that they are heading in the right direction though which they most definitely are not in my book. Nope... Warner and DC do not get another penny from me until they fire Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Howdyphillip said: I understand what you are saying. This looks like an amazing film precisely because Snyder doesn't have his dirty paws in it anywhere. If I thought for one second that my money would be viewed the way you are saying, I would go. I believe that more probably scenario is that DC and Warner getting the message that they are heading in the right direction though which they most definitely are not in my book. Nope... Warner and DC do not get another penny from me until they fire Snyder. I suppose you could be right from a "R rated superheroes sell" POV. Weirdly, I think I'd tolerate a few more Snyder films (and I'm in the BvS was a mistake crowd) if it meant the DC animated films kept going. They have about a 50/50 great/meh record and last year's "gods and monsters" was probably the best superhero offering of 2015. The sales are crap though and at one point the whole thing almost went under. I'd almost buy BvS on blu-ray if i thought it helped the animated films continue. Luckily this one looks like it'll provide a boost to the line on its own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Pretty big spoiler here. If you're planning to see this in the theater and you want to be surprised, please do not click... Spoiler http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/22/batman-batgirl-sexual-relationship-killing-joke-movie?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link /Commissioner Gordon is not amused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Pretty big spoiler here. If you're planning to see this in the theater and you want to be surprised, please do not click... Hide contents http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/22/batman-batgirl-sexual-relationship-killing-joke-movie?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link /Commissioner Gordon is not amused. Granted the reviews I've read have been on comic sites but the "prologue" material has generated quite a lot of ire. The part that focuses on the actual comic has gone down well. It's a tricky scenario as it could look bad having Batgirl turn up with nothing to do other than be critically injured given how that's not a popular meme for motivating male characters . It sounds like the new material is less enlightened in an attempt to develop her though. I'll wait and see as it may just be comic reviwers being too attached to the source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Eh, a good story is a good story, canon or not. Spoiler I don't much care for the interpretation that Bats kills him. It defeats the main purpose of the story, which in my interpretation is Batman coming to the understanding that he is just as broken as the Joker is. They both reacted to their various tragedies in different ways. It's kind of a "there but for the grace of God go I" sorta deal. Besides, this is what Joker wants. He's not going to give him that under any circumstance. He didn't do it when he killed Jason Todd, he's certainly not going to do it for crippling Barbara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 From what I read, they've taken an already problematic issue of using Barbara as just a motivation and object of pain for the main characters and added toxic masculinity to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said: From what I read, they've taken an already problematic issue of using Barbara as just a motivation and object of pain for the main characters and added toxic masculinity to the mix. I don't know, I feel like this criticism of this aspect of the story is overblown. It's not a damsel in distress trope. Batman can't save her from her fate. That all occurs almost immediately without any chance for the hero to prevent it. Neither Jim Gordon nor Batman rise to Joker's bait and lose their shit, so the motivation mostly fails. And Barbara's character only becomes more powerful ultimately. Not really seeing the He-Man Woman Hater angle in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If anyone wants to refamiliarize themselves with the comic, here is a really good version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I don't know, I feel like this criticism of this aspect of the story is overblown. It's not a damsel in distress trope. Batman can't save her from her fate. That all occurs almost immediately without any chance for the hero to prevent it. Neither Jim Gordon nor Batman rise to Joker's bait and lose their shit, so the motivation mostly fails. And Barbara's character only becomes more powerful ultimately. Not really seeing the He-Man Woman Hater angle in this story. Well, TKJ doesn't turn Barbara into Oracle - that happens later (and with another author entirely). Batman can't save her, but the criticism falls entirely on the fact that the only thing that Barbara exists to be is motivation for others. She is entirely a victim in the story. That's not good. But to personalize it by Spoiler Making Barbara Batman's lover so that he has a more personal motive to go after the Joker Makes it even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 19 minutes ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said: But to personalize it by Hide contents Making Barbara Batman's lover so that he has a more personal motive to go after the Joker Makes it even worse. I'd say it doesn't really add anything. Like he's not going to go after Joker if they hadn't been lovers? So yeah, I suppose that was best left off the table. And to the first bit, she could've been one of just about any Batman characters over the years. Alfred, Jim Gordon, Dick Grayson, Selina Kyle, or whoever. The fact that this particular event lead Barbara to her evolution into Oracle (a much more empowering female character than Batgirl ever was, IMO) kind of turns this into a seminal moment for the character. She overcomes her victimhood here and becomes something better. Not sure how having another author bring about this rebirth is significant, unless you're meaning to point out that Alan Moore might have some issues with women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said: To me (and of course this is all opinionated) the answer is in the "killing joke" itself: "See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum...and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moonlight...stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend daren't make the leap. Y'see...y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea...He says 'Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!' B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says... he says 'What do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'" Reveal hidden contents The Joker clearly considers himself the first of the two. Sanity, to him, is a prison. He says earlier in the story that "madness is the emergency exit." But from a narrative perspective, Batman represents that character as well. He's the one offering the Joker the "light" to walk across first when offers to rehabilitate him. He also kind of acknowledges in the beginning that he will either wind up killing or being killed by Joker if he can't help him. The panel where Joker looks at Batman after this scene, frowning with his eyes in shadow is very powerful. It feels like everything for the two of them hinges on that moment. Joker doesn't take the leap though. He mentions earlier that he finds the past a troubling place, and like the second escapee in the joke, he's scared. When he tells the joke the tables are turned, now he's offering the "light" to Batman. The last five panels really sells it for me: Batman and Joker laughing and sirens blaring. The laughter is the two of them having a moment of shared madness, and the sirens represent Batman's way, "our way" as commissioner Gordon calls it. More laughter and sirens, and now there is a beam of light cutting through a puddle between Batman and the Joker, and at the very top of the panel you see Joker's hand extended and open. This is the light from the joke with the two lunatics, and Joker is offering Batman a hand, saying "come with me." The laughter stops, and now the beam in the puddle is broken by a patch of grass. Batman and the Joker are on one side, and the siren noises are on the other. This, to me, is when Batman kills the Joker. He's on the other rooftop now, with the asylum (represented by the sirens) behind him. Batman and Joker are gone and the sirens stop, you just see the beam of light. The light goes out. It's an interesting interpretation, but I'm not buying it. To me, the crux of The Joker vs. Batman trope is "I'm going to make you break your one rule. I'm going to prove to you that we are two sides of the same coin." Maybe the Joker's right, but Batman is never going to give him the satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 I don't get too wrapped up in canon. To me it's more important to just get down to the crux of the characters and to tell a good story. As far as I'm concerned Killing Joke is a very good Joker/Batman story regardless as to whether or not it's canon. Same with TDKR. Elseworlds, What If?, Ultimates. whatever. It doesn't really matter to me as much as "was it a good story that was true to the characters motivations and personality?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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